360 magnum vs 5.7 hemi

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for 3 900 $ you have a lightly modded 5.9 magnum thats easilly pops 400+ hp and 440 + ft-pd of torque , hands down , here in canada , i dont imagine in usa .. even more cheaper !
 
I'm currently in the middle of an early 70's Challenger project and am putting in a 5.7 Hemi with XV Motors Carb kit. The engine looks brand new has less than 100 miles on it and I should be getting 430 - 440HP all for just under $3400 CDN ($2750 US). I am a HUGE fan of the old iron and still not sure if I am making the right decision......but....bang for buck......this is a good solution for me at the moment.

My problem is the price of ebody parts is killing me. I'm thinking of changing projects and getting a more completed 71 Dart. I posted a picture of it on this board for opinions. Anyone here have a 5.7 in their A Body?

Valerian - I have a couple of great mopars you might like to see and I am always looking for help!! haha! I live on the southshore of montreal. Send me a pm if you would ever like to come over and talk and work on Mopar!
 
Wow fellas nice debate here. I currently have a 68 Dart that I'm putting a 5.7 stroker in it. I guess I'm an odd ball... I'm going w/a 5.7L based stroker..... I'll trow the XV intake ontop along w/a **** load of nitrous direct ported of course..... use my built 757, TTI headers and motor mounts and be done......

I have the same stroker in my heavy *** 06 charger and w/full interior I run 11.85 @116.... 4412 lb car too.... now if my Dart is 3200 lbs welll... u can do the math plus the 4.10 gears... lets just say I better be in the mid to high 10's on motor then hit it w/the bottle.... then its game on.

The 3rd gen hemi is 55lbs lighter than the 360 block. It's completely unheard of to get 20+ mpg out of a 450 rwhp on anyother mopar sb. Well u can do it w/the 5.7 Hemi.

B TW I got my block outta a junk yard for $300. I can pick them up at will for $600 all day.

My build is as follows:
5.7 Bored and stroked 383 Hemi
4" bore on block
forged 6.1 partial profiled crank
custom CP pistons
carrillo NASCAR rods
custom cam
ported 6.1 large chamber heads w/stock valves and 6.1 springs
6.1 ported intake
6.1 shortie manifolds
dynatech high flow cats w/custom mids 3"
3" Zoomers w/custom 3" x pipe
custom injectors
3000 stall ppp TC


Good luck fellas
 
ValerianMagnum said:
dgc333 said:
Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.

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Im sorry my man , but my best friend is an v8 engine builder since the last 21 years , and he s a mopar la engine specialist , and the regular 5.9 magnum in the trucks for example is exactly the same compression and heads than the 5.9 380 -390 hp mopar crate engine ,, so to make 400 or with a 5.9 magnum is really easy , and its the best street strip engine in the small block familly , fiability , low end torque , good hp and its verry easy to modify as so it is so simple ..fuel , air and spark .. thats it

a lot of people dont even know what is a 360 5.9 mopar crate engine ( its a underdog ) or what it can achieve , it is a verry respected engine fo those who runs at the dragstrips ..

and even a 318 magnum , can be verry dangerous if its well done , put some aluminium edelbrock heads , port them ,better valvetrain , and a good set up of cam , carburator , and intake on a 360 magnum and a modded new hemi is just as equal or better ,, theres nothing special about the new hemi , at least you have technology , fuel economy , but still your problems ar not gone ... more you put money , and more you got result ,, thats it .. if you have money.. do it ,, but it changes nothing if you want to save on gas , with all the money you gonna pay to do the swap !
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Just wait a couple years. When the prices for new Hemi parts come down to agreeable levels, there won't be a good reason not to go with one. Engine builders are just barely scratching the surface of the new Hemi's potential, and so far the gains have been astronomical. In a little while it'll be cheaper to build a 450 HP 5.7/6.1 than a 450 HP 5.2/5.9. Plus, what about forced induction? I may be wrong, but it's not very common to see LA/Magnum engines with any good amount of boost unless they are fairly built up to handle it. The new Hemis take superchargers like fish to water (as do the Hemis of the past). If you guys are using the argument that they aren't that different than the V-8's of yesteryear, then why not use them if the price is right?
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Not sure about just scratching the surface... I know all the major engine builders that have put out strokers or all kinda and of course the forced induction stuff as well. These guys can get u a balanced rotating assembly for $3500 w/very good parts. Forged everything.. custom pistons, profiled crank, tapered rods, etc.....
 
ValerianMagnum said:
dgc333 said:
Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.
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Im sorry my man , but my best friend is an v8 engine builder since the last 21 years , and he s a mopar la engine specialist , and the regular 5.9 magnum in the trucks for example is exactly the same compression and heads than the 5.9 380 -390 hp mopar crate engine ,, so to make 400 or with a 5.9 magnum is really easy , and its the best street strip engine in the small block familly , fiability , low end torque , good hp and its verry easy to modify as so it is so simple ..fuel , air and spark .. thats it

a lot of people dont even know what is a 360 5.9 mopar crate engine ( its a underdog ) or what it can achieve , it is a verry respected engine fo those who runs at the dragstrips ..
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Every thing I have seen about the crate engines is the 300/320 HP unit is a tuck long block. Besides the unique cam and intake the 380/390 HP engines have higher compression pistons. Even Mopar Performance advertises that the 380/390 HP units have 10:1 compression pistons. They come with a 288/292 cam and a 9:1 compression wouldn't be enough to maintain reasonable cylinder pressure for acceptable low rpm torque.

The magnum crate motors are very good and can make a lot of power, they just aren't as good as the new hemi motors and within a few years they will be competitive price wise with the magnum motors.
 
dgc333 said:
Every thing I have seen about the crate engines is the 300/320 HP unit is a tuck long block. Besides the unique cam and intake the 380/390 HP engines have higher compression pistons. Even Mopar Performance advertises that the 380/390 HP units have 10:1 compression pistons. They come with a 288/292 cam and a 9:1 compression wouldn't be enough to maintain reasonable cylinder pressure for acceptable low rpm torque.

The magnum crate motors are very good and can make a lot of power, they just aren't as good as the new hemi motors and within a few years they will be competitive price wise with the magnum motors.
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are u quoting the 360 crate engine or the 5.7 crate?
 
USCG CHARGER said:
Not sure about just scratching the surface... I know all the major engine builders that have put out strokers or all kinda and of course the forced induction stuff as well. These guys can get u a balanced rotating assembly for $3500 w/very good parts. Forged everything.. custom pistons, profiled crank, tapered rods, etc.....
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Yes, but that's all "easy" and obvious street-based stuff. When you start to see professional racers using highly developed new Hemis in their race cars, then I'll say they've gotten below the surface. I do think that we are getting there much faster with these engines nowadays than racers were 40 years ago, however.
 
dgc333 said:
Kind of shot your self in the foot on that one. Taking your numbers;
$1500 for a used hemi (for that price it will be relatively low miles not
requiring a rebuild).
$ 200 for a cam that will push the power to an easy 450 HP (been done many
times in the magazines).
$1200 for headers and motor mounts.
$1000 for an aftermarket EFI controller

For $3900 you have a 5.7 in your A-body that is making 50 HP more than your rebuilt 340 and still can go to 500 without much additional work.
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I wanted to compare apples to apples, that's all, which is why I included a rebuild on the hemi.

You're comparing apples to oranges, a fully rebuilt engine to a junkyard find, to come out with slightly better numbers. And I'm not sure thats everything you need for the swap either, I was just throwing a few big ticket items out off the top of my head. I forgot the hemi swap oil pan and pickup, adds $475 to the total (from XV anyway), for a total of $4,375. Maybe someone that's done the swap can give us better numbers?

I think its pretty obvious that a 'low miles' magnum 360 could be had for less than a low miles hemi, and since its pretty much a straight swap, that leaves $2,675 (plus whatever you saved on the engine) to make 450 hp with. Hot Rod magazine built a high miles 318 with $1500 in junkyard parts and came up with 406 hp, so I don't think its crazy to think you could make 450hp with a low miles 360 and over $2,600. They did it without rebuilding the engine, just heads and up http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0304_318_small_block_build/index.html

But regardless of price, I'd still rather have an old LA, or an old 426, than one of the new hemi's in my ride. :-D
 
I would rather prefer an older engine in my muscle car but since a 426 Hemi is way too expensive for me a new 6.1 Hemi with mods that make it look a little more retroish engine, a bigger cam and maybe a stroker kit to bang it up to 426 cubes to get that older music out of it, definitely I am interested in that now for my 68 Dart Gt, being able to make my own piece of history, sort of the...newer generation 68 Hemi Dart, it's getting me exciting, its cheaper (if you know where to look and hunt down your parts), its powerful, and if I keep the fuel injection and computer its economical! No matter what performance engine you put in, this one is not one of much debate, if you want to put a vtech 4 cylinder then lets all get our shovels hahaha its all a matter of what your interests are and whether you want to try out new things and experiment/fabricate. Its all in the hobby.
 
Regarding "forced induction" on the small block wedge engines.... I have some experience in installing one:

As a hedge against the Hemi's better breathing heads, Vortech (pictured), Pro Charger, Powerdyne and Paxton (and, probably some I've missed) all make centrifugal superchargers that can be adapted to L-A/Magnum 5.2-5.9 motors without owning a degree in mechanical engineering. As far as I know, ProCharger and Paxton are the only ones with "dedicated" kits for fitment to these engines, but there may be others.

Not knowing that, I blindly chose a Vortech. Well, nobody told me...

I am definitely NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer, (at age 69) but, I designed the mounting plate and adapted this Vortech V-1, S-trim blower to the 360 Magnum I'd installed in my '72 Valiant pretty much all by myself (with some machine work performed by a friend, on the blower mounting plate.) It LOOKS home-brewed, and it is.... but, that's okay.... old school hot rodder here.
But, the boost really transformed the car. I haven't had it to the strip yet, but from the seat of the pants feel, I think it knocked a good, full second off my e.t. (which was low 13's), and maybe more than that.

Someone said the Magnum/L-A motors weren't particularly good candidates for forced induction, and they were right, up to a point. Because of the stock, OEM pistons (cast, or cast hypereutectic), they won't tolerate detonation AT ALL.... so, you have to keep 'em rich as all getout, run an alky-water injector, and an MSD BoostMaster boost-retard spark unit, but if you keep good gas in them (93+ octane), I think they'll live with up to 10 pounds of boost. We'll see.... I have talked to people who've been successful with that combination.

If mine blows up tomorrow, I'll let you know!

If the engine in question (boosted) is properly built with some good, forged pistons in the 8:1 range, and some stronger aftermarket con rods are used, along with Cometic, steel head gaskets, I'd think 15-18 pounds of boost could be feasible on an extended basis, and would take the engine into the 550-600HP range with good streetability. One good thing about blowers is, you don't need, or even WANT a lot of cam duration... boost just is blown out the exhaust valve on overlap with a cam that has too much overlap due to long duration. My cam has just 214/218 degrees at .050, (.525"-lift) and Hughes. who sold it to me, says it's a good supercharger cam because of that and its 114-degree lobe separation. It makes 12 inches of vacuum at 475 rpm, idling fairly smoothly, in gear. Great street driveability with loads of low-end torque. Too much, in fact; I need to retard that cam about 4 or 5 degrees to kill some of it off, and add it where it can be used, in the 4,00-up territory. Maybe after the weather warms up a little... lol!

Of course, eveything I did could be done on a late-model Hemi with even better results, I am sure; I just couldn't afford the tab for one of them. Maybe later...

Then again a 12-flat street car in the hands of a 69-year old geezer may be fast enough...

You pays your money and you takes your choice! I know one thing: Nitrous sure would have been a lot cheaper!!!:angry7:

Ol' Bill, in Conway, Arkansas (70 years young in 4 more days!)

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I know... I know... my underhood wiring is a disgrace.

I'll fix it..... someday.

Some guys are just not intended to do wiring.... I think I'm one of those guys, (obviously.)

I probably should have built this thing while I was a young man... like, in my 50s.... Would have had more patience, probably.

Oh well; it runs... :) I have TWO fire extenguishers in the car with me at all time.... LOL! (A belt, AND suspenders!!!)

ol' Bill, in cold, snowy Conway, Arkansas, where it's 25 degrees at 12:15 p.m.
 
Well, it seems that when talking hemi's everyone forgets about the 50's hemi's. I'm a big fan of retro. I was planning on taking a 2006's rsx-s engine and shoving it into an 89 crx. With this duster project i Hvae recently undertaken, i'm taking a 354 hemi out of a 56 chrysler and wedging it into a 72 duster. now, that's still retro. I think everyone always forgets that there are other options out there instead of the legendary 426 hemi. Before the 426 took hold, the 392 hemi dominated the strip, and to this day a properly built 392 will still give a 426 a run for its money!! Currently I have two engines i'm building, a 318 that was given to me, that i'm turning into a 390, which i'll be selling to a friend, to build a 392 hemi. Yes the early hemi's are heavy, but 50-100 pounds isn't that much!! Infact the 392 i'm planning will be bored and stroked (if i can find the right crank) to 426 cui. If when the time comes a new hemi finds it way into my garage, then maybe...just maybe...i'll go about seeing about putting it into my duster..but chances are, i'll be slaying stangs with an engine that's 50 years old. Showing everyone you can teach old dog's new tricks :)
 
good thing , for me a old 392 hemi as it place in the duster better than the new hemi , anyway with time .. its a question of opinion ,,, theres people who understands me and others that doesnt ,,

its your choice ,,, im laughin lound when i ear someone who wants to swap a 3g hemi in is 02 ram ,, and still as a 360 , 5.9 magnum in it ... there is so much potential is this engine but nobodie cares ! ( huge underdog )

me im a too big fan to take the 5.7 or + hemi to do a ( hemi car ) in my mind a 70-74 cuda with a 5,7 hemi will never but never be a HEMICUDA , or same thing with a 68 dart ,, it made history with the old iron , why destroy that .. anyway with time i realise that i have my opinions and you got yours ,, so thats mine , and its better to stop that thread ! :)
 
ValerianMagnum said:
good thing , for me a old 392 hemi as it place in the duster better than the new hemi , anyway with time .. its a question of opinion ,,, theres people who understands me and others that doesnt ,,

its your choice ,,, im laughin lound when i ear someone who wants to swap a 3g hemi in is 02 ram ,, and still as a 360 , 5.9 magnum in it ... there is so much potential is this engine but nobodie cares ! ( huge underdog )

me im a too big fan to take the 5.7 or + hemi to do a ( hemi car ) in my mind a 70-74 cuda with a 5,7 hemi will never but never be a HEMICUDA , or same thing with a 68 dart ,, it made history with the old iron , why destroy that .. anyway with time i realise that i have my opinions and you got yours ,, so thats mine , and its better to stop that thread ! :)
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:stop: Well that's just a matter of opinion aint it? ;) If a car looks good and you did most of the work and you actually drive the thing then it's worth a million to one self no matter what opinions are out there, not everyone thinks the same and its better to give an opinion not based on your own personal values but performance baby! broom broom! If we did how boring would this world be...throw in a 360 throw in a newer engine its all good, both get nice numbers as long as you actually enjoy the hobby and driving. :munky2: If I throw in a new sb hemi then my dart obviously wont be a LO23 HEMI right out of the factory and to be honest I don't dig it much, but if it will be my own and it WILL be a hemi so it sure can have that name on it why not, newer cars have em haha and my can too, Im not aming for an original garage trophy.
 
To the gentleman who started this thread, Mr. ValerianMagnum:

You WILL grow older and wiser. Enjoy your MOPAR--and everyone else's.

If you owned, or even drove this car for an afternoon, you would take back everything you have said.

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DGC333
so you are saying that the the newest mopar performance catalog is misprinted? and the spec. sheet that came with the 360/390 crate that I just bought is misprinted? If they are wrong, thats great to know. But everything I have on it shows that it's a 9.0:1 compression motor with a 288/292 dur. cam with .501/.513 lift
 
venomvpr900 said:
DGC333
so you are saying that the the newest mopar performance catalog is misprinted? and the spec. sheet that came with the 360/390 crate that I just bought is misprinted? If they are wrong, thats great to know. But everything I have on it shows that it's a 9.0:1 compression motor with a 288/292 dur. cam with .501/.513 lift
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No the 2009 MP catalog lists the 390 HP 360 with "10:1 pistons". And, I have always been told that the 380 and 390 HP engines have different pistons. A 288/292 duration roller cam is going to be 240+ duration at 0.050". If the engine was 9:1 with that kind of duration at 0.050 I would think the bottom end would be very soft. That is not the case with those motors so I would tend to believe they have higher compression than the factory magnums.
 
Ok I checked in to my info and the mopar catalog
360/320 - 9:1
360/390 - 9:1 - this one has cast iron heads
360/395 - 10:1 - this one has aluminum head
It doesn't matter much because as of the 1st of 2008 these engine where no longer being produced I got 1 of 2 left of the 360/390 cast iron heads
 
Then why are they still listed in the 2009 MP catalog that just came out?

They list the following sb; 440/530HP, 410/470 HP six-pak, 360/390HP, 340/330 six-pak and an assortment of LA & magnum short blocks.
 
ROFL - - sorry DGC333 I stand corrected the motor in the 09 book shows 10:1 but it has aluminum heads. the same motor in the previous catalog, the motor that I have which is also a 360/390 with iron heads shows 9:1 - now to the funny part, what would you pay for that sweet small block in the 09 book. MSRP is $10,940 I have a good story to tell about MP and ordering of the motor that I have. but I will start a difference thread to tell it
 
Interesting discussion, folks. Some may recall the slow acceptance of the 426 Hemi into the world of top fuel dragsters. The 392 was the king. Now we come to the gen 3 Hemi. It's too early to see what niche it will fit into.

Meanwhile, I congratulate Mopar for thinking about and providing the parts that facilitate retrofitting the new engine into the older cars. It lets those of us who are interested in preservation keep our Mopars ALL MOPAR.

The eventual popularity of these engines will be sustained by the aftermarket. For instance, you can put together a gen 1 mouse motor and never use a GM part. This would not have happened if the motor had not already been developed for high performance usage in a variety of chassis.

There's room enough here for all of the Mopar Hemis, and other Mo-power. We can choose the bullet we put under the hood and if we don't like it, change it for something else. Personally, I plan to stick with my LA and RG blocks, but watch the development of the gen 3 hemi. Like everyone else, I hope the changes get simpler and cheaper.
 
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