360 magnum vs 5.7 hemi

-
ValerianMagnum

ValerianMagnum

the little car that could
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
1,153
Reaction score
465
Location
montreal , canada
Hi guys ! i wanted to give my point here !


im 23 years old and i dont understand why im pissed off like that ! im a huge fan of old mopars and i dont like the new technologie to take place .. now we see the new hemi taking out all the legendary engines , even dodge on there new site are talking about the 5,7 hemi better than the old 426 hemi cause it as one hp per cubic inch , im a verry big fan about the 360 magnum crate engine , you put the 340 valve covers , you stroke it or tune it up a little bit and you have a nice ( LA ) engine on your mopar , i dont accept that the new hemi is taking the place of the 318-340-360 smallblocks in the mopar hardcore fans , and even bashing the reputation of the 426 hemi , i drove one (5,7 hemi ) , and gees it seem like a computer is pulling me , not brutal performance like the old ones ..

i live in montreal canada , and there a lot of rams , chargers , and magnum or challengers ,having the 4 letters on there panels or hoods and its like hey .... hey i have a hemi ,and you ( me )... you got nothing ..

im not 75 years old but when i went to carlisle in 2002 ... i would never forget the feeling to see a REAL hemi car , or the engine in front of me .. you know the trill the chills that you add ,,, what do you have now .. yes it got a Hemi its like ?? WHAT !! you cannot take that name .. take vortech if you want or everything but dont take all the history of the legendary hemi head ..


is it me or these engine are too much overated ! at first i found that i was cool the new hemi .. in 2004 for example .. but now man come on its too much i think ! even indy made a stroker kit to make it a 426 , man come on .. its as the power and everyhting ,, but ...

im a big mopar or no car , but the new hemi , no , not for me .. if i want a hemi its gonna be the old one , and not showing off with the new one ..


my 2 cents .. im maybe crazy , but still i know my mopar !


post comments please ..

Joe ! :toothy10:
 
well theres the new generation for ya ! the world of computers most people that build hot rods any more build #matching rides or new teck hot rods i call them. Its just personal perferance .Its all in part of the fun of building your own . some people cant build them they just buy an say they did ,others walk around an wish they had one (no matter )its all good
 
Interesting thoughts... I'm building a new Hemi (bought) for my 69 Dart and I'm pretty pumped about it. For now it's a 5.7 truck motor, with a cam, car intake & throttle body, car front cover as well (pretty much converted it to a car hemi and added a cam). My dad gives me all kinds of grief about it, "build a dual quad 360, 318, whatever, blah, blah, blah." I'm 30 years old and I'm all about the old school, HOWEVER, times are changing. New technology has allowed our "old school" rides to handle better, drive better, drive smoother, we have increased fuel economy, options, options, and more options. All thanks to new technology. Whether that comes in the form of an engine labeled "HEMI," and I for one am no expert on the history of the Hemi or anything like that so I'm not going to debate it, or suspensions, seating, electronics, etc. Doesn't matter. It's ALL good, and it keeps these old rides alive. I know quite a few import "techy" guys that are getting the itch for an old ride because of the electronics now available. I'm no electronics genius but I like the challenge, the fuel economy numbers (again debatable depending on how you build a 318 or 360), and I sure as heck dig the styling.

For now the engine is mostly stock but later I am considering opening up the heads and possibly stroking it. I like the fact that Mopar now has these options, whereas GM's been doing it forever, I don't necessarily think it's going to replace the "old school." Too much cost at this point and too new, for now anyway. But I think it definitely has the potential to become a big player in the market, especially as costs come down on these swaps and new products become available to make it easier (someone crack this stupid computer already and save some dudes some money PLEASE).

I wouldn't go so far as to say your crazy, but I also wouldn't say those of us that are doing it, are crazy either (though open to debate when comparing dollar for dollar). Different strokes for different folks and if Ma Mopar, and others, can keep the old cars rolling with new technology, I'm hopping on board. Some guys like the old stuff and Mo'power to you, but I like this new stuff and I'm gonna get in the game on it. It may cost a bit more, but when she's done, it'll be "SWEET!!!"

And yeah, it'll have a "Hemi."
 
Well a 5.7 makes a lot more power than any LA engine and when you apply the same mods to both engines the difference gets even greater. The 5.7 gets even more power for 09 where its rated at 370 HP.

The 6.1 is only a computer upgrade away from 500HP with 54 less cubes than the legendary 426 hemi.

Plus these engines make all this power while still pulling down 20+ mpg and not polluting the environment.

The modern v8's whether its the new hemi, a GM LS or Ford mod motor are so far superior to the iron from the 60's its hard to even make a comparison. Its this superiority that makes them so popular to hot rodders for engine swaps into the old cars.

Just don't forget that our legendary muscle cars off the show room floor could hardly break into the 14's in the 1/4 where a new SRT-8 Charger is scrathing at the 12's in show room trim. These cars were not very good perfromers by todays standards.
 
true , you have youre personnal reasons ...

at my point if you want economy dont buy a muscle car .. v8 is a v8 ,with all these computer and sensors i will always trust a well carburated engine ...

personnaly il will always , take first a junkyard jewel like the 360 5.9 liter magnum, at a scrap yard ..

and to convert it to a carburated engine ..

and to *fine tune -it* to take easily 400 plus hp and 410 lbs of torque for few $$$ buck .. i mean really really few bucks , buy a new 6,1 hemi for

530 HorsePower
510 Ft. lbs. of Torque

for : $17,660.92 for exemple ... i choose to put less than 8-10 k and pump 600 +hp with my 360 anytime

my point : take a 5.9 magnum anytime than a 5.7 hemi , im not here to start bashing anyone but its my 2 cents .. pay less for more , and less electronical problems , gaz , fired and pedal to the pedal ,

btw i respect youre choices , a mopar fan respects a mopar fan .
 
dgc333 said:
Just don't forget that our legendary muscle cars off the show room floor could hardly break into the 14's in the 1/4 ....
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree with you, dgc333. Shortly after purchasing my old '69 340 Swinger used in November 1969, it ran 14.28 @ 98+ mph at OCIR. This with just a tuned stock motor, Goodyear Polyglas GT tires (hard), no headers, no SureGrip, and 3.23 gears. And I still have the trophy to prove it.
That's hardly 'could hardly break into the 14's'.
I'm currently building my "new" '69 Dart with a 380hp 360 crate motor with a few additional goodies and looking for much better performance with a well-balanced overall package.
 
ocdart said:
Gotta disagree with you, dgc333. Shortly after purchasing my old '69 340 Swinger used in November 1969, it ran 14.28 @ 98+ mph at OCIR. This with just a tuned stock motor, Goodyear Polyglas GT tires (hard), no headers, no SureGrip, and 3.23 gears. And I still have the trophy to prove it.
That's hardly 'could hardly break into the 14's'.
I'm currently building my "new" '69 Dart with a 380hp 360 crate motor with a few additional goodies and looking for much better performance with a well-balanced overall package.
Click to expand...

Well you had a very good running Swinger because the 340 cars typically were high 14 low 15 cars. Even the 383 Road Runners and such were only into the high 14's. And you hit the nail on the head with the tires. The tires of the day weren't at all good for straight line traction.

The other thing to keep in mind is a 340 rated at 275 which was arguably under rated and was more like 300 if measured the same way the measure HP today would be down in the 230 HP range just like a 5.2l magnum motor.
 
ValerianMagnum said:
true , you have youre personnal reasons ...

at my point if you want economy dont buy a muscle car .. v8 is a v8 ,with all these computer and sensors i will always trust a well carburated engine ...

personnaly il will always , take first a junkyard jewel like the 360 5.9 liter magnum, at a scrap yard ..

and to convert it to a carburated engine ..

and to *fine tune -it* to take easily 400 plus hp and 410 lbs of torque for few $$$ buck .. i mean really really few bucks , buy a new 6,1 hemi for

530 HorsePower
510 Ft. lbs. of Torque

for : $17,660.92 for exemple ... i choose to put less than 8-10 k and pump 600 +hp with my 360 anytime

my point : take a 5.9 magnum anytime than a 5.7 hemi , im not here to start bashing anyone but its my 2 cents .. pay less for more , and less electronical problems , gaz , fired and pedal to the pedal ,

btw i respect youre choices , a mopar fan respects a mopar fan .
Click to expand...

Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.

Its certainly cheaper than buying a crate 6.1 hemi but in a few years the 5.7 and to a lesser degree the 6.1's will be junk yard jewels too.

To get a 360 to 600+HP is going to cost you in the same range as the crate hemi motor. It will require a race block and big buck heads plus top shelf rotating parts.

Don't get me wrong my Barracuda has an LA 360 with magnum heads. Its making ~370 HP and is carbureted. It was the least costly way to get a reasonably hot v8 into a \6 car.

But I am not going to kid myself into thinking the current generation motors don't have more potential. I have had my son (service manager for a Dodge dealer) keeping his eyes out for a 5.7 for me though.
 
Interesting thread.....

I dont know.... more hp/cu in, better fuel economy, lighter, clean emissions, big power potential, compatable to run in old cars.....the new HEMI's suck!! :happy10:

After all the original hemi cars ran so well, drove well, handled well and were so reliable from the factory...:sad9:

Just a little devil's advocate is all....:snakeman:
 
After all the original hemi cars ran so well, drove well, handled well and were so reliable from the factory...:sad9:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

thats a nice way to talk about old hemis ... i dont imagine what a 528 can do against a 6.1 !

when i drive , its not a new challenger who scares me ,,, not at all ,
 
I'm 17, and here's where I see it.

Go to the junkyard, and pull a 5.7L out of a Ram truck. Remove the computer, remove the funky ram-tuned SMPI intake manifold, remove the exhaust manfolds, remove the cam. In their place, throw on a good ol' dual-plane single-4-bbl. intake, some good headers, a hotter cam (more duration for the more "violent" power us muscle car guys like), and an ignition box to control the coil-on-plug system. Now bolt that up to a Tremec 5-speed and 8-3/4" rear with 3.55:1 gears and drop it in your classic A-body of choice. You will have a car that will run low 12's no sweat (with good tires, of course), and not sound like a blender. I know I used to be skeptical of the sound, but do a YouTube search for "XV Challenger" and watch the track-test videos; that cammed and carb'd 5.7L has all the raunchy induction noise and deep-throated roar of a 440 Six-Pack.

Obviously this is much more expensive than an LA SB build, or even a B/RB swap into an A-body; BUT, as time goes on and the market for classic hot-rodded modern Hemi's continues to open up, these engines will begin to be appreciated more and more and will be seen as a not-so-extreme swap.

I only like the new Hemi's for what they can be; rip-snortin' hi-po V-8's for our old hot rods with a practical, efficient side that won't have you towing a gas trailer just to cruise around the neighborhood.
 
i agree. the old is the old and the new is the new. i love the old hemis. they have the name they have the power they have the legacy. i also like the new its superior in most ways but it is not the same. when you learn all about the new technology it really is cool and not difficult to work with. its just taking the time to learn it. i like tuners and almost any car on the road. each car has its place. and i think the new hemi should not be called hemi. it should have its own name and start its own legacy. it is a great motor and will be popular but its compareing apples and oranges. just my 2 cents also
 
im not here to start shitting the new hemi , my point , is that i dont understand , people who let the new hemi take the reputation of the old one , and believe me its real ... i was cannot imagine that few years after , bahhhhh .. the real hemi is just too heavy , too big , to expensive , .. hard on gas..


and with chrysler who is falling down and fast , i just imagine how its gonna be hard for the 5.7 hemi lovers ,,, its just about time , i just dont like how chrysler does there thing since ,, 2003- 04

new charger daytona ? you can call this everything but a charger .. 4 door still !

daytona ram ?? what

new challenger .. i dont even whant to talk about it .. it was that necessary ?

and now .. the new hemi , 392 and everything .. man where are we going !!
 
Tyler s18 .. thats exacly what im saying ,,, thats it !

( and i think the new hemi should not be called hemi. it should have its own name and start its own legacy. )
 
Well the car companies are in business to make money (irrespective of what is going on now in the market now) and if using a moniker from the past will help sell vehicles then they are stupid not to. In the case of Chrysler whom ever resurrected the Hemi name to use on the new motor is a genius. Same with the Charger name, its Dodges best selling car. It's no different than GM using LS on there new engines as a link to the 454's of the late 60's and early 70's

The new engine is very worthy of the Hemi name much more so than the last time they hung it on an engine. Remember the 2.6L 4cyl Mitsubishi engine from the early 80's Chrysler called a Hemi.

Remember the reason the 426 Street Hemi of the late 60's and early 70's is rare is that it in some cases cost $800 over a 1/3 of the base price of some cars it was available in, didn't really have any performance advantage over a 440 which was about 1/4 of the cost and was a pain in the butt to live with. People didn't want it.

The Hemi was a great race motor but it certainly wasn't the best street motor and arguably wasn't even the fastest. The 440 6paks, LS6 454's Chevelles, 455HO GTOs and 455 Stage 3 Buicks are as fast or faster than 426 Hemis.
 
dgc333 said:
Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.

The Crate 360/380 and 360/390 are magnum motors and have 9.0:1 compression ratio and a stock magnum 360 has 9.1:1. The LA 360 was around 8:1, The crate does have a hotter cam but a junkyard 360 magnum is going to give you the same comp./ratio
Click to expand...
 
I see the 5.7L Hemi as a continuation of the Chrysler tradition that started with Hemi combustion chambers is the the early 50s, it did NOT start and end with the 426 (actually it started in the 40s with an aircraft engine for WWII which can be seen in the WPC museum). With a hemi head you do get a big wide and heavy engine just like when it's DOHC head. The early generation hemis were very impressive and so too are the latest ones. The latest generation is fantastic for low exhaust emissions, fuel economy and still has impressive performance. I just turned in a 2006 Charger RT, it was a really really great car for 48,000 miles - my wife really misses it now.

I have a special fondness for the 3.9/5.2/5.9L "Magnum" truck engines - bang for the buck they are hard to beat. Get rid of that awful intake and with just a little head work you've got an engine equal to a stock 5.7L performance-wise at a significant cost savings too.

It is a shame that Chrysler has always pimped out it's cool names: remember the Challenger on a Mitsubishi in the 80s or using the Charger name on a two door Omni, and of course the four door Charger - this is a Chysler tradition that needs to end, I don't want to see a 'Cuda mini-van.
 
well the first thing that you are going to do with your junk-yard jewell, is replace the cracked cylinder heads. they are notorious for this. there goes the budget. don't get me wrong, i love la engines. i have owned all generations of the dodge trucks,1982 318-4bbl,1995 & 99 360 magnum, & the 2004 5.7 hemi. the hemi is the best truck i have ever owned! this truck with a 120,000 miles still out performs my older trucks. all this trucks i bought new. what do you mean "electrical issues". all the new stuff is so much easier to diagnois. why be against the modern technolgy. would you rather use a 40-year old head design for your la engine or a new edelbrock design? the new hemi stuff is pricey right now, but if i could afford it, i would be using it. so i will continue useing my low tech la engines with new tech parts on them. to me, this is his complaint, new tech or old tech? i had an old guy tell me the other day, boy they don't build them like they use to, & i told him that i was glad they don't. the older stuff was great in its time & shouldn't be compared to the new generation hemi. the part you don't see is that 90% of the people buying the new hemi, doesn't even know the older hemi ever exsisted. if i was going to spend 30k, & i had to chose between a 1968 hemi r/t charger or a 2009 hemi r/t charger. lets see, air conditioning, comfort, starts every time, fuel milage, better top end speed, & as quick as the 68 hemi. give me the 2009 model!
 
ValerianMagnum said:
After all the original hemi cars ran so well, drove well, handled well and were so reliable from the factory...:sad9:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

thats a nice way to talk about old hemis ... i dont imagine what a 528 can do against a 6.1 !

when i drive , its not a new challenger who scares me ,,, not at all ,
Click to expand...

A 528 is not an "old Hemi"........Not really an equal comparison to a factory car w/ a 6.1. All car companies re-badge iconic names.....it's called marketing.
 
venomvpr900 said:
dgc333 said:
Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.
Click to expand...

The Crate 360/380 and 360/390 are magnum motors and have 9.0:1 compression ratio and a stock magnum 360 has 9.1:1. The LA 360 was around 8:1, The crate does have a hotter cam but a junkyard 360 magnum is going to give you the same comp./ratio
Click to expand...

Well according to Mopar Performance the 380 and 390 HP motors have 10:1 compression pistons. The 300 HP version was a production truck long block and would be 9:1.
 
I'm with Valerian on this one! I'd take a 340 or 360 in my '72 over a new hemi anyday. Explain to me exactly why a carb manifold for a 5.7/6.1 costs over $400? It costs exactly the same amount of money to produce as a 318 performer manifold.

And as far as new engines being easier to diagnose, you're wrong. The dealership spent 6 months, and I spent over 600 dollars (would have been more but I was only using the dealership to diagnose, buying my own parts and doing the work they recommended myself), trying to get my SRT4 to work right. Sure, you can plug the new cars into a computer, but there are still plenty of parts that don't have sensors attached directly to them, and those dumb codes can still be either whatever they're supposed to monitor, or the sensor itself, or the wire relay that goes to them, etc., etc, and the "technicians" that work on 'em just pick the first thing off the list the computer spits out and tell you it needs to be replaced. Easier?

As far as 40 year old technology goes, sure, there are improvements to be made in head flows and combustion chambers. But in reality, the internal combustion engine is today pretty much exactly what it was at first invention. Yes, the alloys have improved, but I can take advantage of that with new pistons and heads. And then I've also gotten around the old head designs. Are the blocks all that different? Not really.

When I work on my 318 I just have to consider 3 things, fuel, air, and spark. I can check the points/condenser on my distributor, or pull spark plug wires, or do a compression check, or just pull the plugs and see what's up. Piece of cake! I don't have 300 vacuum lines, or any smog parts, or some little black box somewhere to worry about. True, I can't just drive my challenger for 5000 miles and not think about it, I have to do a little maintenance here and there, but a little simple work here and there keeps everything together.

And how many ponies do the stock 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi's make? factory specs are 390 hp/407 ft lbs for the second gen 5.7, and 425 hp/420 ft lbs for the new 6.1. I realize those engines have more potential than that, but at what cost? Even getting a 5.7 will cost a pretty penny (The "cheap" ones I've seen on craigslist are between $1,000 and $1,500, and thats used). And once you've got it you still have to put it in, after you spend $1,200 just on headers to make it fit,plus mounts, new radiator and fans to keep it from overheating, etc. I bought my 340 short block for $280, had it rebuilt with high comp pistons for $1,200, and will have cleaned up eddy heads for under $2k. All said and done I should have a 400 hp 340 (which won't weigh any more than a new 5.7 with the alum heads, intake etc...) for under $5k. I would really like to see a 5.7 rebuilt and ready to go for less than that...XV sells their 5.7 carb motor for $6,700, and you'd still have to do the swap.

Don't get me wrong, the new hemi's are great engines, but they're nothing to be in awe of. Maybe I'm just a purist on this one. Old iron should have old iron power!
 
72bluNblu said:
Explain to me exactly why a carb manifold for a 5.7/6.1 costs over $400? It costs exactly the same amount of money to produce as a 318 performer manifold.
Click to expand...

That's easy! You have to recoup the cost of designing the part and the tooling to make it. Just like anything else new that hits the market, the price is initially high then drops over time.

Ex: The latest cell phone gaget costs $300 or more when it hits the market and a couple of years later its free with the service.
 
72bluNblu said:
And how many ponies do the stock 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi's make? factory specs are 390 hp/407 ft lbs for the second gen 5.7, and 425 hp/420 ft lbs for the new 6.1. I realize those engines have more potential than that, but at what cost? Even getting a 5.7 will cost a pretty penny (The "cheap" ones I've seen on craigslist are between $1,000 and $1,500, and thats used). And once you've got it you still have to put it in, after you spend $1,200 just on headers to make it fit,plus mounts, new radiator and fans to keep it from overheating, etc. I bought my 340 short block for $280, had it rebuilt with high comp pistons for $1,200, and will have cleaned up eddy heads for under $2k. All said and done I should have a 400 hp 340 (which won't weigh any more than a new 5.7 with the alum heads, intake etc...) for under $5k. I would really like to see a 5.7 rebuilt and ready to go for less than that...XV sells their 5.7 carb motor for $6,700, and you'd still have to do the swap.
Click to expand...

Kind of shot your self in the foot on that one. Taking your numbers;
$1500 for a used hemi (for that price it will be relatively low miles not
requiring a rebuild).
$ 200 for a cam that will push the power to an easy 450 HP (been done many
times in the magazines).
$1200 for headers and motor mounts.
$1000 for an aftermarket EFI controller

For $3900 you have a 5.7 in your A-body that is making 50 HP more than your rebuilt 340 and still can go to 500 without much additional work.
 
dgc333 said:
Well a junkyard jewel 360 is going to require going into the motor to get 400 HP. The crate 360/380 HP motors have higher compression pistons and a hotter cam. So basically you are talking about a rebuild so you are looking several thousand dollars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Im sorry my man , but my best friend is an v8 engine builder since the last 21 years , and he s a mopar la engine specialist , and the regular 5.9 magnum in the trucks for example is exactly the same compression and heads than the 5.9 380 -390 hp mopar crate engine ,, so to make 400 or with a 5.9 magnum is really easy , and its the best street strip engine in the small block familly , fiability , low end torque , good hp and its verry easy to modify as so it is so simple ..fuel , air and spark .. thats it

a lot of people dont even know what is a 360 5.9 mopar crate engine ( its a underdog ) or what it can achieve , it is a verry respected engine fo those who runs at the dragstrips ..

and even a 318 magnum , can be verry dangerous if its well done , put some aluminium edelbrock heads , port them ,better valvetrain , and a good set up of cam , carburator , and intake on a 360 magnum and a modded new hemi is just as equal or better ,, theres nothing special about the new hemi , at least you have technology , fuel economy , but still your problems ar not gone ... more you put money , and more you got result ,, thats it .. if you have money.. do it ,, but it changes nothing if you want to save on gas , with all the money you gonna pay to do the swap !
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top