Marko
Well-Known Member
whats the diff between a 360 magnum block and a regular 360 block??
360 magnumblock?
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LXguy
Well-Known Member
Magnum is hydraulic roller from the factory. Needs a different balancer and flexplate than a regular 360.
Marko
Well-Known Member
So i can just add hydraulic roller lifters aftermarket to it to make it the same as the magnum block or will i have to change the balancer after i change the factory rollers??
magnum blocks oil the heads thru the pushrods and come from the factory set up for hydraulic roller cams...
LA blocks oil the heads thru number 2 and 4 cam bearing ...and feed the shaft rockers...
balancer and flexplate are relationship of there balance....magnums pistons and rods are lighter..therefore their damper and flexplate are different.
retrofit hydraulic roller lifters for a LA block are over 400.00 a set...
Oem hydraulic roller lifters for magnum block can be had for less then 100 bucks...
magnum blocks....from the factory have no provision for mechanical fuel pump..but that can be changed with the use of the LA timing chain cover and a nose extension for the cam....
biggest question...is what are you trying to do?
LA blocks oil the heads thru number 2 and 4 cam bearing ...and feed the shaft rockers...
balancer and flexplate are relationship of there balance....magnums pistons and rods are lighter..therefore their damper and flexplate are different.
retrofit hydraulic roller lifters for a LA block are over 400.00 a set...
Oem hydraulic roller lifters for magnum block can be had for less then 100 bucks...
magnum blocks....from the factory have no provision for mechanical fuel pump..but that can be changed with the use of the LA timing chain cover and a nose extension for the cam....
biggest question...is what are you trying to do?
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Hi all!
A magnum compared to a la is what you are asking and specifically the 5.9 or the 360.
The 5.9 uses a factory roller hydraulic cam, and the rocker arms are pressure oiled through the pushrods like a shivvy, the rockers are very similar to sbc and should be replaced w/good stuff in hp apps, the heads are magnum swirl port and can be made to flow well, the intake bolts go strait down, has a nice timing chain tensioner in place of the typical cam retention plate (these can be used on LA motors too, around $30).
The 360 uses a hydraulic flat tappet cam from the factory but can be fitted with your choice of cam type, oils through the block up into the heads and delivers the top end oil to the rockers through a single shaft mounted on each head (this set-up is extremely durable even in stock stamped steel form if you don't go crazy with lift)
OK, I just thought about a resource that can keep me from typing so much...LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine
A magnum compared to a la is what you are asking and specifically the 5.9 or the 360.
The 5.9 uses a factory roller hydraulic cam, and the rocker arms are pressure oiled through the pushrods like a shivvy, the rockers are very similar to sbc and should be replaced w/good stuff in hp apps, the heads are magnum swirl port and can be made to flow well, the intake bolts go strait down, has a nice timing chain tensioner in place of the typical cam retention plate (these can be used on LA motors too, around $30).
The 360 uses a hydraulic flat tappet cam from the factory but can be fitted with your choice of cam type, oils through the block up into the heads and delivers the top end oil to the rockers through a single shaft mounted on each head (this set-up is extremely durable even in stock stamped steel form if you don't go crazy with lift)
OK, I just thought about a resource that can keep me from typing so much...LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_LA_engine
Marko
Well-Known Member
Well building a 360 block up but wondering if its worth trying to find a magnum block or Run with the 360 LA block and put on the add-ons on to it. It sounded like the magnum block was a better start but is it more of a headache? Like the Mechanical fuel pump part is fine To pull the LA Parts off it to make a spot for the Pump but! What is with extending the Cam? Is that a option to buy or do i have to have it fabricated everytime i wanna change the cam???
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
I would just run an electric pump. There are a lot of inexpensive options for that. I have been running a Carter street/strip pump since about 92 and it's still going strong, and it's internally regulated.
P.S. I have seen NASCAR lifters for $200.
P.S. I have seen NASCAR lifters for $200.
magnums come on fuel injection vehicles...so they all use electric fuel pumps..
so chrysler does not put a eccentric for the fuel pump on the front of the camshaft...therefor the timing chain cover is different..
like said...just run an electric pump....if you want to run a mechanical fuel pump...hugheengines.com sell an extension..about 20 bucks i believe..but then you need the LA timing cover...which can be had from any 318-360 engine...cheap from junk yard...
the only advantage the magnum block has is the hydraulic roller lifters are cheaper.....
if you use the magnum block...you will need to use magnum heads also...
and what are nascar lifters?????
so chrysler does not put a eccentric for the fuel pump on the front of the camshaft...therefor the timing chain cover is different..
like said...just run an electric pump....if you want to run a mechanical fuel pump...hugheengines.com sell an extension..about 20 bucks i believe..but then you need the LA timing cover...which can be had from any 318-360 engine...cheap from junk yard...
the only advantage the magnum block has is the hydraulic roller lifters are cheaper.....
if you use the magnum block...you will need to use magnum heads also...
and what are nascar lifters?????
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Sorry it took me a while to find em...
16 Used Jesel .905 diameter dogbone roller lifters, part # LFD46503. These all have centered pushrod cups and the huge .820 roller wheel. These are some of the lightest lifters for sale at only 99 grams. They have internal oil circuits that send oil pressure to the pushrod cup and roller wheel, the outer bodies are hard coat steel and show no wear or scratches. These look to be in excellent condition. Best lifter on the market list for $2300 new. These came from top Nascar team and only run 1 race.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASC...62QQcategoryZ33614QQihZ017QQitemZ270308970398
16 Used Jesel .905 diameter dogbone roller lifters, part # LFD46503. These all have centered pushrod cups and the huge .820 roller wheel. These are some of the lightest lifters for sale at only 99 grams. They have internal oil circuits that send oil pressure to the pushrod cup and roller wheel, the outer bodies are hard coat steel and show no wear or scratches. These look to be in excellent condition. Best lifter on the market list for $2300 new. These came from top Nascar team and only run 1 race.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASC...62QQcategoryZ33614QQihZ017QQitemZ270308970398
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
dupe post
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
I was just reading a bit more on those Jesel's...you have to install the little dog bone part in your block and they don't come with them as far as I can tell....it may be more trouble than it's worth. They are on Eatmon's site on Ebay.
Anyway, there is an alternative. My 85 318 is a factory roller hydraulic with swirl port heads like a magnum, but it oils through the heads and has typical mopar shaft mounted rockers. The best of both worlds in my book, although I'll probably upgrade the heads.
Anyway, there is an alternative. My 85 318 is a factory roller hydraulic with swirl port heads like a magnum, but it oils through the heads and has typical mopar shaft mounted rockers. The best of both worlds in my book, although I'll probably upgrade the heads.
dgc333
Well-Known Member
Actually the rockers are more like Ford. They are pedestal mounted verse the stud mounting of a Chevy. The pedestal mounting is much more stable at high rpm than a stud mounted rocker.
Lots of folks retro fit Chevy small block roller rockers to magnum heads but the stock stuff is perfectly good up to 6000 rpm.
LXguy
Well-Known Member
I meant to post more last night, but the kids started up and I never got back to it.
Anyways, I've built a 5.9 Magnum block that I hope to be dropping in shortly. I'm putting mine in an A-body (Dart). If you're not, not all of this will necessarily apply to you.
I was in the same boat as you and had this great idea. The Magnum comes with Magnum heads, has a lighter rotating assembly, presumably better machining (factory stuff, not a rebuild), readily available in the yards cheap (with a warranty no less) etc. I found one with 40K miles really close to home for $800.
Well, got my low mile Durango motor home and the head was cracked between the seats on #1 cylinder. Never would have found this if I hadn't done a leakdown on the motor. There are improved cheap replacements available, but it kinda sucked. My wife bought me some Edelbrocks so it turned out okay. :toothy10:
The stock magnum rockers are non-adjustable pedestal style, just like the 5.0 Fords come with. Having built a lot of Mustangs, I wouldn't agree that the pedestal stuff is more stable than the stud mount. The non adjustability is also a pain if you're planning on running a decent camshaft. I have the Edelbrocks, which come stud mount, but Crane does sell a conversion kit for the Magnums.
For the mechanical fuel pump issue, I had Comp grind me a custom hydraulic roller cam on an LA core. The stock Magnum cam is very much truck oriented, and not a performance grind, so it needs replaced either way.
You'll need an LA style timing cover. Got one at a swap meet for 30 bucks.
You'll need an oil pan too obviously, as Magnum engines only came in trucks. There is no stud on the main cap for the car style pump pickup to bolt to. I was unable to source one, so am trying to convince myself that if the pickup unscrews a quarter turn and comes to rest on the bottom of the pan it won't be a big deal.
All of the later Magnums came with a balancer that has an integrated serpentine pulley, so you'll probably need to source a Magnum specific balancer for a car application. I got a stock replacement from Mancini after a lot of looking. SFI ones are more readily available, but are $$$ (though I've got more than $100 in this stock replacement if I remember right).
The flexplate is another issue. Hopefully you can use the one that comes with the motor, but I don't know for sure and it depends on your converter (I have no clue what to do with a stick). The other solution is to buy a neutral balance flexplate and have a Magnum specific weighted converter built.
The magnum distributor is of no use, as its for EFI, so you'll have to get one of those too.
The LA style motor mount bosses are on the block, so at least that's no issue, but remember that the 360 uses a slightly different mount than the 340/318. I went with the Schumacher parts. What the hell, its only money...
I don't know if the 340 style oil filter elbow will bolt up or not. I've been told it does, but haven't done it myself. Dipstick is waaaaay too long for use in a car.
It is more of a headache, but I think (hope) the advantages will be worth it.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to warn you about the land mines I've tripped over so far.
Steve
Anyways, I've built a 5.9 Magnum block that I hope to be dropping in shortly. I'm putting mine in an A-body (Dart). If you're not, not all of this will necessarily apply to you.
I was in the same boat as you and had this great idea. The Magnum comes with Magnum heads, has a lighter rotating assembly, presumably better machining (factory stuff, not a rebuild), readily available in the yards cheap (with a warranty no less) etc. I found one with 40K miles really close to home for $800.
Well, got my low mile Durango motor home and the head was cracked between the seats on #1 cylinder. Never would have found this if I hadn't done a leakdown on the motor. There are improved cheap replacements available, but it kinda sucked. My wife bought me some Edelbrocks so it turned out okay. :toothy10:
The stock magnum rockers are non-adjustable pedestal style, just like the 5.0 Fords come with. Having built a lot of Mustangs, I wouldn't agree that the pedestal stuff is more stable than the stud mount. The non adjustability is also a pain if you're planning on running a decent camshaft. I have the Edelbrocks, which come stud mount, but Crane does sell a conversion kit for the Magnums.
For the mechanical fuel pump issue, I had Comp grind me a custom hydraulic roller cam on an LA core. The stock Magnum cam is very much truck oriented, and not a performance grind, so it needs replaced either way.
You'll need an LA style timing cover. Got one at a swap meet for 30 bucks.
You'll need an oil pan too obviously, as Magnum engines only came in trucks. There is no stud on the main cap for the car style pump pickup to bolt to. I was unable to source one, so am trying to convince myself that if the pickup unscrews a quarter turn and comes to rest on the bottom of the pan it won't be a big deal.
All of the later Magnums came with a balancer that has an integrated serpentine pulley, so you'll probably need to source a Magnum specific balancer for a car application. I got a stock replacement from Mancini after a lot of looking. SFI ones are more readily available, but are $$$ (though I've got more than $100 in this stock replacement if I remember right).
The flexplate is another issue. Hopefully you can use the one that comes with the motor, but I don't know for sure and it depends on your converter (I have no clue what to do with a stick). The other solution is to buy a neutral balance flexplate and have a Magnum specific weighted converter built.
The magnum distributor is of no use, as its for EFI, so you'll have to get one of those too.
The LA style motor mount bosses are on the block, so at least that's no issue, but remember that the 360 uses a slightly different mount than the 340/318. I went with the Schumacher parts. What the hell, its only money...
I don't know if the 340 style oil filter elbow will bolt up or not. I've been told it does, but haven't done it myself. Dipstick is waaaaay too long for use in a car.
It is more of a headache, but I think (hope) the advantages will be worth it.
Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to warn you about the land mines I've tripped over so far.
Steve
abodyhotrod
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i run La heads on my magnum motor. it can be done pretty easily, every part in and on the motor is La application. the only magnum part is the better one piece oil pan gasket.
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
How did you oil the valve gear? Did you drill a passage in each deck to feed the heads?
abodyhotrod
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drilled thru deck, or should i say tapped into existing hole just below the deck surface. did find out that the hole runs into the main oil gallery and had to restrict the flow to the heads but it was fairly easy.
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by, "more like a ford". The Magnum 3.9, 5.2, 5.9 all use a stud mounted rocker as opposed to the LA shaft mounted rockers.
My point being, I prefer the single shaft with five studs to individual mounted rockers...each on their own stud.
This article details upgrading the Magnum rockers:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/howto/38620_rocker_arm_upgrade_install/index.html
These are the typical upgrade for the old style shaft mounted rockers:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN-64792-1&autoview=sku
Granted, these are for a big block....but you get the idea.
P.S. I would stay away from any of the cheap ebay rockers that have needle bearings inside them to ride on the shaft.
I have also personally had way too many problems with Comp Cams roller rockers.
I would stick with either Crane or T&D
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