360 running hot…very hot

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Sdriche

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i have a 360LA in my 68 dart. The radiator is a new aluminum 19 inch core width, the fan is a 16 inch non clutch, and it’s shrouded. the thermostat is a 185 high flow. At idle the car can climb as High as 230 pr more…I know this is dangerous territory. at cruise it drops tom185 to 190. my plan is switch to electric but am I missing anything obvious ? I did blow through the heater core and radiator and flow doesn’t seem to be an issue.

the only thing I’m unsure of is that the POnput a trans cooler on the front of the radiator which covers about 20% of it. A paper in front while running gets sucked right to the radiator
 
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i have a 360LA in my 68 dart. The radiator is a new aluminum 19 inch core width, the fan is a 16 inch non clutch, and it’s shrouded. the thermostat is a 185 high flow. At idle the car can climb as High as 230 pr more…I know this is dangerous territory. at cruise it drops tom185 to 190. my plan is switch to electric but am I missing anything obvious ? I did blow through the heater core and radiator and flow doesn’t seem to be an issue.

the only thing I’m unsure of is that the POnput a trans cooler on the front of the radiator which covers about 20% of it. A paper in front while running gets sucked right to the radiator
Have you verified it? Get an IF temp gun and shoot the thermostat housing. Shoot the upper hose going into the radiator. Shoot the lower hose coming out of the radiator. Make SURE those temps are correct. How much of the fan is in the shroud? Should be about half way. WHAT BRAND radiator? New isn't always GOOD. Don't forget that. Make the checks above and report back.
 
This is what I'm looking at

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IS that a three or four row radiator? Sometimes, you run into the phenomena where you have too many rows and it actually blocks air flow. That's why most all competent radiator companies and cooling "experts" recommend a two row radiator with extra large tubes, usually 1" - 1.5" wide. If you can shoot the radiator in the places I recommended and let us know temps going in and coming out of the radiator, and around the thermostat housing, that will give us a good idea of how well the radiator is shedding heat. Also I cannot tell with the fan spinning how far it is into the shroud.
 
16" maybe ok for 4 cyclinder, a slant six uses a 17" and a V8 uses a 18" diameter. Your fan shroud is only covering the center, not the whole radiator. The trans cooler is OK but really it should have an inch or so gap between the two.
 
I'm not sure my IR gun is that accurate but thermostat housing is 181, Upper hose 161 lower house 140. The fan does seem to spin slow at idle for some reason. One belt around the balancer, fan, and alternator. This was originally a slant 6 car so not sure what got reused on the 360 swap

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At idle the car can climb as High as 230 pr more
How much idling time to reach that temp?
What kind of temp are you seeing in stop and go driving? Whats the inner diameter of that shroud?
 
How much idling time to reach that temp?
What kind of temp are you seeing in stop and go driving? Whats the inner diameter of that shroud?
At idle after start up takes about 10 mins to reach 190 then just keeps going. The shroud is slightly bigger than the 16 inch fan inside it. I'm starting to think this is an airflow issue. Stop and go traffic it goes to 230+
 
I used a similar shroud for a week. It did nothing for me. Same issue when I had my 318. Fine on the highway, hot in traffic.
Aluminum 26" radiator helped, proper timing made it the best. It still crept up at idle and in traffic, but never over about 215.
Weird part was that even with the temp gauge over 200, ir temp reading at the thermostat was never over 195.
 
At idle after start up takes about 10 mins to reach 190 then just keeps going. The shroud is slightly bigger than the 16 inch fan inside it. I'm starting to think this is an airflow issue. Stop and go traffic it goes to 230+
16" is a really small diameter for a fan. Can you get us a static picture of it? Like not turning a thousand miles an hour? lol
 
I'm not sure my IR gun is that accurate but thermostat housing is 181, Upper hose 161 lower house 140. The fan does seem to spin slow at idle for some reason. One belt around the balancer, fan, and alternator. This was originally a slant 6 car so not sure what got reused on the 360 swap

View attachment 1716088941

View attachment 1716088942
Ok, I'm sorry. I missed this picture. If those IR gun temps are accurate, you may not be over heating. Try this. With the ignition ON and engine not running, GROUND the lead going to the temp sending unit and see what the gauge does. It should go all the way to H fairly quickly. If it does, the gauge is probably good, so I would try another sending unit. Cheap enough to "throw" at it and see.
 
What is your base and total timing? Have you richened the carb up a hair to see if it helps? Can you tell us anything about the 360?
 
Q: When is a shroud not a shroud?
A: When it doesn't cover the entire radiator.
What you have is not a shroud, it is more of a "blade guard". It has ZERO effect on cooling, as you have found out.
An actual fan shroud covers the entire finned cooling area of the radiator, and is funnel-shaped (not flat!) to direct the air flow. Doesn't matter if the fan is electrical or mechanical, if the shroud doesn't meet those two criteria (at a minimum), it is basically worthless.
At a minimum, see if you can adapt a stock-style fan shroud to your radiator.
SVJt9D0gHaHD?w=189&h=180&c=7&r=0&o=5&dpr=1.1&pid=1.jpg

Use a fan blade that is no more than an inch or two smaller than the shroud opening, with as many blades as possible.
 
IMO, this is real simple;
If your rad is dropping the temp 30degrees, from top to bottom, then your cooling system is working exactly right. Go to Note-5
If only 20*, it could be better but as soon as the car is moving even just 10 mph, the temp should be dropping. There are several things you can do to make it better, most of which have already been mentioned.
BUT
the first thing to do is make sure that your Idle/slow-speed timing is NOT retarded. See note-1
This puts heat into the cylinder walls and into the exhaust ports; where it is picked up by the circulating water.

The temperature of the headers within the first four inches of the flanges, at idle should be less than 450*F. see Note-2
After you get all that bugged out, and you still cannot get to a 25/30* temperature drop across the rad at idle with the vehicle stopped, and if this is a recent engine-build, then see note-5

Happy HotRodding

Note-1
Your Idle timing, with an automatic and the stock 360 2bbl cam should be around 8>10*. The more cam you put into her, the more Idle-timing it will want. Some of the FABO guys are running 18 to 25 degrees. But the more timing you run, the more closed the transfer slots in the carb will be, which leads to a throttle tip-in sag, and she may bang on the N/P to in-gear shift. The mechanical timing should begin advancing about 100>200 rpm above idle, and should hit 25 to 28 degrees by 2800rpm, and then slowly creep all-in by 3400 +/- 200
Your vacuum advance MUST be working.

Note-2
Closer to 400 or even 350 is better. If it's hotter than 450, I would suspect that the exhaust gasses are exiting the chambers still on fire.
Here's an easy test; just pull some timing in, without regard to how much, then re-adjust the idle speed back to "normal". Just keep repeating this until adding timing produces no additional rpm. Now read the header temperatures, and watch the temp gauge. Put the timing back after the test. See Note-3

Note-3
Caveat; if the carb's low-speed circuit is exceptionally rich, and you have a long overlap-period cam, and the headers are working really well, then the headers at too slow an idle can draw A/F mixture right across the top of the pistons and out the exhaust ports, and into the headers. Under the right circumstances, this raw mixture can ignite and artificially increase the header temperature. see Note-4

Note 4
If you have a metering-rod carb, make sure the rods are staying DOWN at Idle. If a PV you shouldn't have trouble unless the diaphragm is ruptured.

Note-5
Ima betting your ring-gaps are too tight and or, not enough skirt clearance.
Here's the easy test; Make sure your battery is in good shape. Then run the temp up to ~210 by IR gun, then shut her off. Wait 5 minutes than crank her up. If she fails to crank, or cranks real slow/with much difficulty, STOP! the pistons or the rings have locked up, and the engine needs to come apart.

Note-6
If the engine is hopped up, it behooves you to, at your earliest convenience, to rig up a fresh cold-air intake system. Hot underhood air is less dense and will appear to the carb as being at altitude. Wiki says that you are at 259 feet. Your engine can make good power there on fresh air.

Note-7
I should mention that;
with your type of shroud,
at idle and vehicle stopped,
the fan can actually draw hot air backwards at the corners, from under the hood to around the corner, and back thru the rad. The paper-test will prove it. Once the car gets moving, ram air will prevent that.

Note-8
forget about electric fans at least until you get your heat-issues solved.
Once you do get your heating solved, if it was me, I would just install a Thermostatic clutch on the biggest fan I can find, installed into a full-coverage shroud. Let the clutch take care of business.
Oh wait,
I already did that, with killer results!
In your case, I would also recommend a hi-flow pump which is just an 8-vane pump with an anti-cavitation plate installed, and usually, a HD bearing to support that big-boy fan/clutch. I have had excellent results with a Milodon.
 
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Looks like the fan is too deep into the shroud, should be about 1/2 of the fan blades exposed. I have had the exact same problem on 2 different vehicles, one got hot idling, the other one got hot over 55 mph. One was in too deep, the other one was not in the shroud at all.
 
Q: When is a shroud not a shroud?
A: When it doesn't cover the entire radiator.
What you have is not a shroud, it is more of a "blade guard". It has ZERO effect on cooling, as you have found out.
An actual fan shroud covers the entire finned cooling area of the radiator, and is funnel-shaped (not flat!) to direct the air flow. Doesn't matter if the fan is electrical or mechanical, if the shroud doesn't meet those two criteria (at a minimum), it is basically worthless.
At a minimum, see if you can adapt a stock-style fan shroud to your radiator.
View attachment 1716088975
Use a fan blade that is no more than an inch or two smaller than the shroud opening, with as many blades as possible.
Also this ^^^^^^^^
 
A quick solution would be 17 inch 7 blade fan for starters, one inch from the rear of the radiator. I would try a fixed blade first, maybe a clutch fan later. Remove the blade guard and space accordingly. I would probably go as far as to mount the transmission to the core support behind the grille just in the path of airflow.
Amazon product ASIN B000CN6U1I
 
Here is an interesting thought.

I see you have the aluminum passenger side exit water pump, and yet your top hose coming from the thermostat is also on the passenger side of your Cross Flow radiator.

Like it is circulating the coolant through the passenger side radiator tank and back into the engine, without it circulating through the main part of the radiator.

Here is a picture of a '76 D100 truck radiator and shroud with the upper hose on the driver's side allowing the coolant to circulate through the full radiator.

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☆☆☆☆☆
 
Here is what I see wrong. The upper hose is on the same side as the lower hose on a cross feed radiator. Someone move one of the hose nipples on the radiator. That will make it run very hot.
 
I see you have the aluminum passenger side exit water pump, and yet your top hose coming from the thermostat is also on the passenger side of your Cross Flow radiator.

Like it is circulating the coolant through the passenger side radiator tank and back into the engine, without it circulating through the main part of the radiator.

Here is what I see wrong. The upper hose is on the same side as the lower hose on a cross feed radiator. Someone move one of the hose nipples on the radiator. That will make it run very hot.
Good catch, guys! :thumbsup:
 
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