360 start up problem

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n00blike

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Hello I just spent this weekend trying to get my engine that has been sitting for 6yrs to run. I kept it dry and oiled during storage but it was outside (condensation?).

I have not been able to figure out what is wrong with it. I have replaced the starter and battery. It didn't change anything.

I can turn the engine by hand with a big wrench and It seems to be just as hard as my brother's 318 to turn.

The engine is a 360 low compression, stock heads, rpm performer intake, 650 rpm carb, and milodon oil pan.

When the starter engages it makes a ratcheting sound. here is the link of the video I took.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9YJZLkEFbU&feature=youtu.be"]74 duster 360 start up problem - YouTube[/ame]

Any help is welcomed.
 
Battery may be low. Did you try jumping it? Perhaps the battery drained down while sitting? Or, maybe the starter solonoid?

Pat
 
Try jumping the terminals on the starter with a larger diameter shank screwdriver to see if it cranks. If so I would replace the starter solenoid
 
agree, sounds like startet not kicking gear in all the way. maybe reposition starter a little or replace it.
 
Its turning the motor when it does it(look at the balancer).So its engaging ( atleast some).you may have gotten a bad starter.Pull the starter and look at the gear if its worn try to reposition it alittle and see if it fully engages.You certainly don't want to ruin your flywheel/converter teeth.It sounds like its popping fairly fast ,like the battery is good.Try pulling all the plugs and shooting some oil in each cylinder and see if it turns easier.Is it a high compression motor?The best thing to do with a stored car is to pull the dist. and oil pump shaft,use a rod to turn the pump clock-wise to oil the bearings.
 
When I first ran into this issue I had and old starter and old battery. I have since replaced the starter and battery but still have the same issue. I have also tried other known working batteries with the same result.

Before I tried starting it, I did prime the oil using that long tool and a drill.

I have also tried jumping the starter but it results in the same noise.

It is a low compression 8.5 or 9 :1 (cant remember exact number)

The motor does turn a bit but just not enough.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
 
It may be the teeth on the flywheel.Take the starter off and inspect the teeth and the flywheel teeth.Is it a factory starter or a racing mini.Some of the minis are adjustable and you could have it too tight and its wedgeing or too loose and its slipping.
 
mopar410 said:
Try pulling all the plugs and shooting some oil in each cylinder and see if it turns easier.Is it a high compression motor?The best thing to do with a stored car is to pull the dist. and oil pump shaft,use a rod to turn the pump clock-wise to oil the bearings.
Click to expand...

i agree . take the starter out, take the belts off and get a socket and wratchet on the crank bolt and spin it around by hand while shooting some oil in each cylinder until it feels free, and inspect the torque converter / flywheel while turning it. bench test the starter to make sure it is working properly.
 
Check your electrical connections, a bad ground or a dirty/bad connection to the power source could cause this too.
 
flyfish said:
Check your electrical connections, a bad ground or a dirty/bad connection to the power source could cause this too.
Click to expand...

Good point. This happened to me last week on my DD. Turned out to be corrosion on the positive lead from the battery to starter.

Pat
 
thanks for all the input guys! I'm out of town this week but will work on it again on saturday.
 
Starter should be able to spin it fairly easy with all the spark plugs removed.
Mismatch in crankshaft end centers and whatever is behind it can push the crank forward enough to cause problems too.
 
Op: I can turn the engine by hand with a big wrench and It seems to be just as hard as my brother's 318 to turn.
Click to expand...
flyfish said:
Check your electrical connections, a bad ground or a dirty/bad connection to the power source could cause this too.
Click to expand...

I agree, you can get corrosion inside the battery cable and cause the voltage/amperage to get through.

Get a volt meter and see if there is any voltage drop o difference between the battery post and the clamp and then again between the cable at the starter and the started post. The voltage should be the same.. at every point. If not YOU have found your problem.

Make sure you check the ground cable as well. All the same problems could be found here AS WELL as paint on the block were the ground is attached........It is attached to the block right?
 
I'd start by checking , as some have mentioned already, your cable connections & the cables themselves. Do they get hot when cranking? Any high resistance in the system will cause voltage drop & slow cranking or the ratcheting sound described. If you have any doubt, replace the cables & make sure you have a very good ground connection at the block & body.
 
I pulled all the plugs out and it is much easier to turn now but the starter was still having an issue.

After a few hours of checking things it turned out to be a bad ground connection. Scrubbed off a little bit more of paint and the starter now works like it should! Thanks for all your guy's help!

But I ran into other issues. First the fuel pump was not sucking up fuel. Luckily the auto store had one in stock.

Now I get fuel shooting out the top of the carb.

carba.png



Do i need to rebuild the carb?
 
sounds like float open, pop the top and check float needle seats - has 2 floats.
after sitting for 6 years ou might be all varnished up in there.
 
Do you mean to open the 2 screws near the red arrows?

I did that on the left side but didn't clean the needle with anything. Should I just open them up and spray some carb cleaner down there?
 
n00blike said:
When I first ran into this issue I had and old starter and old battery. I have since replaced the starter and battery but still have the same issue. I have also tried other known working batteries with the same result.

Before I tried starting it, I did prime the oil using that long tool and a drill.

I have also tried jumping the starter but it results in the same noise.

It is a low compression 8.5 or 9 :1 (cant remember exact number)

The motor does turn a bit but just not enough.

Thanks for the suggestions so far.
Click to expand...


What kind of battery? My son's 71 valiant had problems starting when we first got it and we changed everything: Starter, relay, battery. Then with advice from FABO/Moparchat we then went to Sears and bought a DieHard gold and it fired right up. Just because a battery is new, doesn't mean it is good.
 
krazykuda said:
What kind of battery? My son's 71 valiant had problems starting when we first got it and we changed everything: Starter, relay, battery. Then with advice from FABO/Moparchat we then went to Sears and bought a DieHard gold and it fired right up. Just because a battery is new, doesn't mean it is good.
Click to expand...

I tried a red top and yellow top. Both worked on other cars. It turned out to be a bad ground. Now im just dealing with a 6 year old carb.
 
Take the top of the carb off, 8 screws I believe and maybe a little linkage clip removal. The floats will come out with the top. there are pins that keep the float attached to the needle seats, pull them and the floats will come off and the needles will drop out (do it over a towel or something so they dont bounce under your shop table or worse) the seats come out with a large screwdriver across the notches. Carterbrocks are EZ to clean and rebuild. They also like only about 4-5 psi of fuel pressure max. fuel may be shooting out of those ports because you got a stuck intake valve and you are pressurizing your intake. Pop a valve cover and look at all the valve tips. If you pull the rockers (5 bolts) they should all be inline with a straightedge +- .015 or so. If one is very low, its stuck. Shoot some penetrating oil in the guide and tap it with a brass mallet, you might be able to free it up. Those ports are intake vacuum under the step up pistons and the needles go down into the jets in the floor. No fuel should be that high or shooting from there. The needle seats are the problem 99% of the time.
 
pishta said:
. The needle seats are the problem 99% of the time.
Click to expand...


Some great info there. But the trouble is usually not ACTUALLY the needles and seats, it's DIRT in the needles and seats.

You might need to spend some time inspecting, flushing, replacing

the tank

the pickup

the fuel supply line

the rubber connector hoses

If you think flushing things out will do the job, you might do this:

"Rig" a SAFE fuel supply can, IE hung from a rafter above, siphon down directly into the carb.

Run a hose from the pump into an empty container so that the pump can freely flush fuel through the line. Allow about a gallon to pump, then restart the engine with a clean glass bottle so you can get a sample to examine for dirt, debri.
 
Well I was able to rebuild the carb this weekend. Boy was it dirty in there! I cleaned it out and replaced the parts that were provided with the kit and new floaters.

after a trip to the auto parts store to get longer carb studs we were able to get it up and running.

I would like to thank you guys/gals for the help!

It still sounds a bit on the advanced timing side. but it starts right up.

It is running on open heads right now so it is loud.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qthMUfErLNk"]360 duster running - YouTube[/ame]
 
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