3G Hemi fuel: EFI vs Carb

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Cevidicus

Cevidicus

CevidiGrinch
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When is which option right? How does one determine what is the best route to go? What factors are involved? Cost? Equipment on hand? Current set up? Personal preferance? Performance goals and intended usage?

Lets talk about it all and weigh the pros and cons to each method.

The more facts and solid info the better.

Tell us what choice you may have made and why.

Thanks,
Cevidicus

:happy1:
 
personally i think if your not injecting a 3g hemi that its just a waste of time using one. just build a small block if your going carb. take advantage of all the technology put into the 3g hemi including the injection. for some reason mopar guys seem scared to death to run anything but a carb. maybe its because mopars are often neglected when it comes to advances in the aftermarket and technology, up till recently and gm/ford guys have had the advantage to be playing with it for what? 20 years now..

the other thing i think is totally useless is converting over to a distribitor on a 3g hemi. again if you want to go backwards technology wise build a la or magnum small block.
 
The main reason to put a "New" engine in your ride is to take advantage of the "New" technology that it brings with it. Cost wise, there is not enough difference to not go with the injection.
 
I can speak from 1st hand experience as I'm doing a swap as we type. I don't fault anyone who goes carb.. however I think it's mainly b/c they don't realize the price of a EFI unit. I bought a used 2005 truck ECu for $100 and wiring harness, drive by wire gas pedal, and two O2 senors for $1150, a diablo predator tuner for $250, the tune would cost me $500 but I know some of the best tuners in the mopar world and they are hooking me up... so there u have it.. roughly $2000 for the EFI conversion...

Last time I looked the Carb conversion was closely priced!

Again nothing wrong with going with carb if that is the look u want to if the class u run requires it, some are just more comfortable with carb.. either way you would still get a hell of a gen 3 which is far superior in every way to a LA engine.
 
Hey--I'm more than willing to help you out with questions pertaining to a 5.7 with a carb,I bought XV's first kit when it came out.BUT I will not do this when Abodyjoe is on here,PM me I will fill you in with HONEST answers about my install.--Steve
 
5.7 carb pic
 

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I'd go EFI hands down. Better starts, better power, better fuel mileage :cheers:

swifter said:
Hey--I'm more than willing to help you out with questions pertaining to a 5.7 with a carb,I bought XV's first kit when it came out.BUT I will not do this when Abodyjoe is on here,PM me I will fill you in with HONEST answers about my install.--Steve
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oooooooooooo, Somebodies pissed.
 
swifter said:
Hey--I'm more than willing to help you out with questions pertaining to a 5.7 with a carb,I bought XV's first kit when it came out.BUT I will not do this when Abodyjoe is on here,PM me I will fill you in with HONEST answers about my install.--Steve
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You won't have any problems from anyone on this thread. I will make sure of that.

Tell us why a carb and how you feel about the carb's performance and driveability.
 
I'm going to use a SRT 8 EFI in my 64 dodge crew. I love Swifters build but If a carb was in the plans for me I would just use a 340, 383, 400, 440 or 426 hemi. Just me and no disrespect to the carb guys.
 
Listen guy's---If you ask questions about these installs,I would think that the ONLY people that should respond are members that have DONE this or are currently doing the switch,I know of two GREAT guy's who have left this site because of being TORN down by other members on there respective builds.I have NO problem with the E.F.I installs in fact I have learned a lot over the couple years I have been here.Listen for someone to say that you can't tune a carb to Start,Idle,or perform the good as e.f.i is incorrect.E.f.i has it's strong points BUT a properly tuned carb will produce as much hp as a e.f.i set-up that fact is proven,No doubt a e.f.i system can and will self-tune itself and most likely get better gas mileage,Which for ME I did not care about and still don't.I built my car the way I wanted and at the time I did mine getting the support to install factory e.f.i into my car was not readily available but the xv kit was.I got my 8,000 mile 06 durango motor for $2000.00 complete with trany and wire harnesses sent to my home from Georgia.At the time {2007} I struggled to find e.f.i help for my install much less any WHO had done this install.So MY choice was to go carbed,Money also came into the equation.I had a complete running engine for $4500.00.When I got estimates to build a 360 from scratch they went from $5000.00 to 7000.00 depending how much hp i wanted,So I went the HARD route to install a 2006 motor into a 1970 abody. Thanks--Steve
 
I apologize for rambling,C u later--GO e.f.i and have fun,When you get your e.f.i set-up done and your anywhere near the midwest we'll meet up and hit the track and see what happens---C--ya!!!!!!!!!!
 
I love efi but the carburetor just looks so cool on old cars. They can and will make just as much power. The do require more maintenance.
I hate carburetors for daily driving but honestly, who daily drives these cars anymore?
 
swifter said:
Listen guy's---If you ask questions about these installs,I would think that the ONLY people that should respond are members that have DONE this or are currently doing the switch,I know of two GREAT guy's who have left this site because of being TORN down by other members on there respective builds.I have NO problem with the E.F.I installs in fact I have learned a lot over the couple years I have been here.Listen for someone to say that you can't tune a carb to Start,Idle,or perform the good as e.f.i is incorrect.E.f.i has it's strong points BUT a properly tuned carb will produce as much hp as a e.f.i set-up that fact is proven,No doubt a e.f.i system can and will self-tune itself and most likely get better gas mileage,Which for ME I did not care about and still don't.I built my car the way I wanted and at the time I did mine getting the support to install factory e.f.i into my car was not readily available but the xv kit was.I got my 8,000 mile 06 durango motor for $2000.00 complete with trany and wire harnesses sent to my home from Georgia.At the time {2007} I struggled to find e.f.i help for my install much less any WHO had done this install.So MY choice was to go carbed,Money also came into the equation.I had a complete running engine for $4500.00.When I got estimates to build a 360 from scratch they went from $5000.00 to 7000.00 depending how much hp i wanted,So I went the HARD route to install a 2006 motor into a 1970 abody. Thanks--Steve
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Steve..... I hope you didnt take my post in the wrong way... I love the build... and the carb... I'm going efi because its something different for me. You say tomato I say tomatoe...
 
abodyjoe said:
personally i think if your not injecting a 3g hemi that its just a waste of time using one. just build a small block if your going carb. take advantage of all the technology put into the 3g hemi including the injection. for some reason mopar guys seem scared to death to run anything but a carb. maybe its because mopars are often neglected when it comes to advances in the aftermarket and technology, up till recently and gm/ford guys have had the advantage to be playing with it for what? 20 years now..

the other thing i think is totally useless is converting over to a distribitor on a 3g hemi. again if you want to go backwards technology wise build a la or magnum small block.
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:prayer: I agree with Joe. I guess I hurt enough widdle feelings in the other thread....so I'll build my car my way and mind my own business to avoid the :axe: that comes from expressing any further opinion.
 
I don't get the point of the whole swap anyway, but...

It would depend on the intended usage I suppose.

If it was for race, or strip/street I would go carb. More adaptable to changes in combination and a lot less hassle. Also, drive by wire sucks.

My understanding is you don't need a dizzy if you go with one of these:
http://www.msdignition.com/Products..._-_Ignition-Timing_Control_for_Late_HEMI.aspx

If it was for 100% street use, I guess I would go EFI, but then for street use you would probably be sticking to a pretty stock setup so the typical EFI problems wouldn't raise their ugly heads.

I used to race heads-up in a class where there were EFI and carb Ford Mustangs. The Carb cars were limited to dual plane intakes (Weiand Stealth and RPM Air Gap only allowed port matching, no porting) and a 650 carb on 8000+ RPM small blocks. EFI guys could run the best intakes and were allowed to port them all the way through. Otherwise the combos were identical. The carb guys kept having weight added because they were faster than the EFI cars. I was a die hard EFI guy going into that, but it made an impression...
 
Cant we all just get along??? I think a dual carb set up on the late model hemi's is friggin' awesome, looks sexy when combined with a dual carb air cleaner like the old hemi's had.
 
LXguy said:
I don't get the point of the whole swap anyway, but...

It would depend on the intended usage I suppose.

If it was for race, or strip/street I would go carb. More adaptable to changes in combination and a lot less hassle. Also, drive by wire sucks.

My understanding is you don't need a dizzy if you go with one of these:
http://www.msdignition.com/Products..._-_Ignition-Timing_Control_for_Late_HEMI.aspx

If it was for 100% street use, I guess I would go EFI, but then for street use you would probably be sticking to a pretty stock setup so the typical EFI problems wouldn't raise their ugly heads.

I used to race heads-up in a class where there were EFI and carb Ford Mustangs. The Carb cars were limited to dual plane intakes (Weiand Stealth and RPM Air Gap only allowed port matching, no porting) and a 650 carb on 8000+ RPM small blocks. EFI guys could run the best intakes and were allowed to port them all the way through. Otherwise the combos were identical. The carb guys kept having weight added because they were faster than the EFI cars. I was a die hard EFI guy going into that, but it made an impression...
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I somewhat agree on the point of the swap. I went back and forth on doing the swap and landed on the magnum route because there were too many drawbacks for a hemi in an A-body.

The power from the basic carb'd hemi setups are pretty unimpressive compared to the budget magnum builds.

btw on those mustangs, are the efi one's limited to the ford style efi? because i wonder if that's just a limitation of that style of efi/intake designs. Because in theory, the EFI should make better power, but obviously not all efi is created equal.

as for my stance: I'm pro efi on everything. All total i've had 3 engines with carbs. All miserable cars to drive until they waste a ton of gas and your patience and warm up.

Maybe they work well in a pure competition setup, but they suck for street/strip applications. Thats why auto manufacturers kicked them to the curb as soon as efi got good.
 
magnumdust said:
btw on those mustangs, are the efi one's limited to the ford style efi? because i wonder if that's just a limitation of that style of efi/intake designs. Because in theory, the EFI should make better power, but obviously not all efi is created equal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they were "limited" to the Ford EEC IV mass air setup, which may not be as good as DFI or the new FAST stuff, but there are plenty of 1,000 hp cars running it, and the carbs weren't just a little bit faster either...

When the theory don't match the results, get a new theory! LOL

magnumdust said:
as for my stance: I'm pro efi on everything. All total i've had 3 engines with carbs. All miserable cars to drive until they waste a ton of gas and your patience and warm up.

Maybe they work well in a pure competition setup, but they suck for street/strip applications. Thats why auto manufacturers kicked them to the curb as soon as efi got good.
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Manufacturers got rid of the carbs to meet EPA smog standards and for mileage purposes. Performance had zero to do with it, and they adopted EFI long before it got good. Further, modern hot-rod carburetors are a lot better for reliability and driveability than the factory stuff ever was.

Potato/potatoe. They're both a waste of time and money. Pick the waste you like best!
 
swifter said:
Hey--I'm more than willing to help you out with questions pertaining to a 5.7 with a carb,I bought XV's first kit when it came out.BUT I will not do this when Abodyjoe is on here,PM me I will fill you in with HONEST answers about my install.--Steve
Click to expand...

oh brother... what did i say now that got your panties all bunched up. the thread is asking for opinions. so voice your opinion. no big deal if someone agrees with it or now. i'll tell you i can not believe how sensitive some guys are on this site anymore. don't know what the hell happened.




Listen for someone to say that you can't tune a carb to Start,Idle,or perform the good as e.f.i is incorrect
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yes you can get a carb to start, idle and perform like efi. i agree with that. the advantage of the efi though is when you tuned that carb on a 60* day and now its 80* out. advantage efi. carb is now out of tune. the instant self tuning is where the biggest advantage is with the efi.
 
Listen guy's---If you ask questions about these installs,I would think that the ONLY people that should respond are members that have DONE this or are currently doing the switch
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thats stupid. what about the guys that have been researching the swap? they can't chime in on what they have learned? just because they haven't bought all the parts and physically bolted anything in yet they can't voice their opinion? come on man thats lame.

personally i have been looking into a 3g swap along with a magnum motor swap ( have a complete running set up here) also looking into the FAST EZ set up ( have one of those set ups here also). been thinking of selling my 408 stuff and go modern hemi. to be honest though the more i learn about it the more i'm leaning to a GM LS motor.. :)
 
Absolutly nothing against the carb guy's, I get it! For me it is all about Reliability, Performance, Fuel Mileage, and Driveability. It want to hop in and cruise, that's it, that's why I went with EFI.

View attachment 100_0129.jpg
 
Both have their advantages. EFI can make small self tuning adjustments, but requires a good amount of vacuum to have decent street manners. Something I haven't heard anyone mention is the fact that EFI cams are all built on 113-119 LSA with intake centerlines at 109-119. LSx and 3G hemi guys know that you have to compromise in a street car on the cam if you're staying EFI.

On the other hand, if you use a carb, just about any cam is streetable. Shoot, you can run a 104 LSA and advance it 4 degrees and she'll run great. Make it a [email protected] or bigger, and the carb won't have a problem with it.

I'm not saying EFI can't tune a big cam with low vacuum, but I am saying the efi tunes using vacuum, and part throttle tuning is nearly impossible without sufficient vacuum at idle.
 
Excerpt from article:

From experience, cams that fit a large segment of the market's definition of street manners run 35-50 kPa and idle from 750-850 rpm. More aggressive cams-the ones where a smaller segment of the market would classify it as streetable-can be up to 65-70+ kPa at idle and must idle up over 900 rpm. When getting into a 80 kPa range the car has a noticeable rock at idle and likely experiences surge when driving at low speed, low throttle situations (1,400-1,700 rpm, low throttle input). Some people still classify this as streetable, but for the purpose of this article, when you are giving up "manners" or have to adjust your driving style to avoid these situations, it doesn't fit our definition of streetable.

Read more: http://www.gmhightechperformance.co...amshaft_comparison/viewall.html#ixzz1qJzyYA00
 
All that said, I'll be running EFI- MS3x. With a 223/[email protected], 113 LSA +4. I think the ideal efi cam is 227/235, 113 LSA +4. I feel good about my combo with my 5.7, but I do realize the cam is a compromise because I want EFI. I want manners, for street and road racing, and EFI should be able to help me get there. I've tuned carbs, but I know I'll feel more comfortable with all the feedback and precision the efi system offers.

426 strokers with EFI have had success up to 255/???, but I'm not sure if the success was Only on the dyno or if it had some street manners.

One more thing to mention- a lot of the drag pack challenger cars have been switched to carbs over the efi they were running because the difficulty in tuning 8000+ rpm motors. A few have blown up because of the efi tuning problems. Don't ask me for details, that's not my place.
 
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