408 build

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I think you should contact member Johnny Pace and ask him about that engine. He sells them and we're in the Christmas selling time. He'll have more info on it.

(FWIW, I would do it internally balanced)

Your flywheel may not work.

On heads, I would save the money and get Edelbrock heads and it would be through ether a member here that can look at them, prep and/or port them for you at a overall good deal.

There's a "Goodfella" over in southern Cali that can give you a slam dunk of a deal. While the cost is pricey, the payout will put a huge smile on your face that will last long after the price paid is forgotten.
Properly done Edelbrocks will far out power OEM heads. If money is the issue, just do stock heads and worry about the rest later when money comes.
 
rumblefish360 said:
I think you should contact member Johnny Pace and ask him about that engine. He sells them and we're in the Christmas selling time. He'll have more info on it.

(FWIW, I would do it internally balanced)

Your flywheel may not work.

On heads, I would save the money and get Edelbrock heads and it would be through ether a member here that can look at them, prep and/or port them for you at a overall good deal.

There's a "Goodfella" over in southern Cali that can give you a slam dunk of a deal. While the cost is pricey, the payout will put a huge smile on your face that will last long after the price paid is forgotten.
Properly done Edelbrocks will far out power OEM heads. If money is the issue, just do stock heads and worry about the rest later when money comes.
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awesome! Id love his contact info if you wouldn't mind! and that is exactly what Im thinking! (as far as just get it going and adding speed parts as I go on)
 
rumblefish360 said:
I don't know what a gauge tee is, but her is the beauty of all ready owning the car....

It doesn't have a payment
It doesn't owe you a thing
It is YOUR toy, excellent stress relief
It keeps your hands from being idle
They make excellent 2nd cars for the times your "In a pinch" because your normal car is down for whatever reason.
By the way, once your married, your insurance payment drops. Once you can get classic insurance, it's pennies a day to insure!
You just need a lockable garage.

WARNING!!!!!!

Never have a girl/wife that bitches about your car and what you put into it. EVER!
Find a girl that is into cars. While she may not get greasy with you, at least she can be in on the fun with you.
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I just have to add to this: Pick, or stay with a girl/wife that actually does enjoy your car hobby, not just lip service, which is what I had for......let's just say many years. My wife now, knew nothing about cars, she knows that I enjoy the hotrod/Mopar cars and she supports me in this. I'm very, very lucky. Many aren't and that's where the best car deals in buying are.
 
I have a question for this with experience with the small block stroker motor. I know that they can make power, but just how economical to drive are they? Yes, yes, I know that if you want power one has to expect to visit the gas pump often. Well, I want the best of both worlds for my recently acquired 72 Dart Swinger and right now the 318 will work to move it around while body work is being done, but I've looked into the late Gen lll 6.1/6.4 hemi. I like the power, the overall performance and the fuel economy that it will give me with a car over 1000 lbs lighter than the car that these engines came out of. Right now I'm torn between the two, and have leaned towards the Gen lll hemi. But, I have a couple of years before I pull the engine trigger. The 408 stroker would require no fitment problems, but the hemi looks cool in there, and this will be a daily driver when my current lease runs out in 2019.
 
hemisedan said:
I have a question for this with experience with the small block stroker motor. I know that they can make power, but just how economical to drive are they? Yes, yes, I know that if you want power one has to expect to visit the gas pump often. Well, I want the best of both worlds for my recently acquired 72 Dart Swinger and right now the 318 will work to move it around while body work is being done, but I've looked into the late Gen lll 6.1/6.4 hemi. I like the power, the overall performance and the fuel economy that it will give me with a car over 1000 lbs lighter than the car that these engines came out of. Right now I'm torn between the two, and have leaned towards the Gen lll hemi. But, I have a couple of years before I pull the engine trigger. The 408 stroker would require no fitment problems, but the hemi looks cool in there, and this will be a daily driver when my current lease runs out in 2019.
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A 408 Don't necessarily make more power than a 360. The things that make power are in the top end. Carbs intake heads cam exhaust and even bore size. Stroking it out moves the powerband lower. Which we all know is favorable in many ways especially for a street car mainly idle, less gear and stall.

As for the mileage thing you could build a 408 to get similar mpg as a modern hemi.
The main benefit to the modern hemi is overdrive and fuel injection and mainly gains power from a cylinder head that flows like a race with a moderate cam. All thing you can achieve with a 408. The multi displacement and variable cam you obviously won't have but from what I understand most swap don't use them anyways.

The way I see the new hemi at its core is just a 360 (same basic rotating assembly) with hemi heads slapped on. So basically a set ported out edlebrocks with fuel injection and a overdrive will get you in the ballpark hp and mpg wise. The thing that will make or break the build is cam choice the main benefit from the new hemi and why it gets a great mileage to power ratio is crazy flowing heads and relatively small cam making power from the heads not the cam.
Which you can achieve with the 408 build but it's hard for most to put on 600 hp Heads on a engine but pick a cam that will only make 100-200 hp less.
 
hemisedan said:
I have a question for this with experience with the small block stroker motor. I know that they can make power, but just how economical to drive are they? Yes, yes, I know that if you want power one has to expect to visit the gas pump often. Well, I want the best of both worlds for my recently acquired 72 Dart Swinger and right now the 318 will work to move it around while body work is being done, but I've looked into the late Gen lll 6.1/6.4 hemi. I like the power, the overall performance and the fuel economy that it will give me with a car over 1000 lbs lighter than the car that these engines came out of. Right now I'm torn between the two, and have leaned towards the Gen lll hemi. But, I have a couple of years before I pull the engine trigger. The 408 stroker would require no fitment problems, but the hemi looks cool in there, and this will be a daily driver when my current lease runs out in 2019.
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I'm with what 273 said. The only difference is that the "LA" doesn't have all the modern electronic gizzmo's that help in mileage like cylinder deactivation and variable cam timing and unless you equipe it with F.I., that could be a good penny more depending on the set up and complexity of it. Sure Fi-Tec/Holley Snipper is cheap, but it isn't a FAST Sequential Multipy Port F.I. @ double the price. There is also the transmission issue. The old iron used a 3 spd auto or 4 spd manual, both ending in a 1:1 drive ratio. Overdrives are out there, but at what cost? And is it comparable to the stock Gen3 HEMI trans. What about fitment and ease of it?

The "LA" based engine, stroker or not, can get good fuel mileage. Getting over 20 mpg's requires ether/or, and or both and more of a Hwy. ratio, taller tires, small cam, lean tune, etc..... While you can use tricks to over come some, like Rhoades lifters to take out 10*'s of cam to tame it or just as a flexibility in more range of cam rpm, I'm not so sure of how far we can go with these tricks. Trust me, I wanna try just for the fun of it in doing odd ball stuff. It's just fun to tinker around for me. I guess what I'm getting at is, I don't see 30+ Hwy. mpg's out of a 380hp, 360 or 408. I have thought about it some and come up with some thoughts on the subject. I just have not been able to implement any such ideas. It may take a while. Other irons in the fire need to be delt with first.
 
hemisedan said:
I just have to add to this: Pick, or stay with a girl/wife that actually does enjoy your car hobby, not just lip service, which is what I had for......let's just say many years. My wife now, knew nothing about cars, she knows that I enjoy the hotrod/Mopar cars and she supports me in this. I'm very, very lucky. Many aren't and that's where the best car deals in buying are.
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I so agree! You may find one hell of a gal one day, but if she doesn't support you and your hobby with great understanding, the beauty isn't worth it. It will just deliver headaches and heart breaks while leaving you frustrated and carless.

My wife is an enabler. Theres good and badin that as well. When I see a car and look for more than a minute, she is saying, "go buy it." Once I told her we had enough cars in the driveway. (4 at the time not including our own daily drivers.) She said, and I crap you not... "I don't care what the neighbors think, F%^&*'em. As long as I have a place to park my car, IDGAF!"
 
rumblefish360 said:
I'm with what 273 said. The only difference is that the "LA" doesn't have all the modern electronic gizzmo's that help in mileage like cylinder deactivation and variable cam timing and unless you equipe it with F.I., that could be a good penny more depending on the set up and complexity of it. Sure Fi-Tec/Holley Snipper is cheap, but it isn't a FAST Sequential Multipy Port F.I. @ double the price. There is also the transmission issue. The old iron used a 3 spd auto or 4 spd manual, both ending in a 1:1 drive ratio. Overdrives are out there, but at what cost? And is it comparable to the stock Gen3 HEMI trans. What about fitment and ease of it?

The "LA" based engine, stroker or not, can get good fuel mileage. Getting over 20 mpg's requires ether/or, and or both and more of a Hwy. ratio, taller tires, small cam, lean tune, etc..... While you can use tricks to over come some, like Rhoades lifters to take out 10*'s of cam to tame it or just as a flexibility in more range of cam rpm, I'm not so sure of how far we can go with these tricks. Trust me, I wanna try just for the fun of it in doing odd ball stuff. It's just fun to tinker around for me. I guess what I'm getting at is, I don't see 30+ Hwy. mpg's out of a 380hp, 360 or 408. I have thought about it some and come up with some thoughts on the subject. I just have not been able to implement any such ideas. It may take a while. Other irons in the fire need to be delt with first.
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Thanks, both of you. I'd not thought of the lower profiles on the cam, but the Gen lll are enormous. As for the MDS and the VVT I won't be using either one, just like the pre 2008 system. The less computer control the better on my book, plus wiring is bad enough without those features.
 
Oh yes, as for transmission I will be going with the Passon A855 five speed overdrive, with a 3:55 gear. That with. 3300 lbs Dart I think should work for power and mpg. Or am I dreaming.

Staying with a LA motor would be less hassle getting everything to work. I'd also a FAST either 4-barrel or six pak style. I really like the six pak look.
 
What is the OD ratio?
Multiple that ratio by the gear ratio to come up with the final drive ratio.
If you intend to make the best of the OD ratio, choose your cam wisely.

Also be advised of the tire size and the RPM's it will turn at the intended cruise speed in overdrive.
 
68cuder said:
She's got a 318 now which I was planning on keeping for now but I did a compression test and it didn't turn out so well. Cylinder#2 has 0 pressure. So I'm thinking of getting a 408 short block and using some ported iron 360 heads to save money. I can use my intake and carb and some other accessories off the 318 so that's why I'm not going to get a complete crate Engome. My main question is will I get in the 375-400 hp range with stock 360 heads on the 408? Any suggestions will be appreciated! Trying to do this somewhat on a budget so I'm hoping to use stock heads. Thanks for radi g this everyone!
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I agree with using a local shop vs Blueprint. There are some good stories about Blueprint, but there are also a lot of problems. Cost is a restriction or limitation for most of us but it should not be the motivation to make a purchase. The horsepower range you are asking about can be attained with parts you already have and some careful attention and purchasing. How bad were the other cylinder pressure readings? Rather than spending on bigger, spend on better. Unless you have the money for a real budget (I would consider $6-7K if you have no core at this point), and it sounds like you don't, I would advise doing this:
1. Assuming you have the Performer 318/360 intake rather than the 340/360... Sell the 360 heads and intake you have now. Invest in a set of Engine Quest Magnums and a 340/360 type intake.
2(a). Cheaper option - Pull the 318 and pull the heads. See why it has zero compression. If the other cylinders were good, and the reason it's got a dead hole is in the heads or valvetrain, I would install a windage tray an a HV oil pump with a new pickup, a new cam like the 268H Comp cam, and a new timing set. Put it all back together and you will be around 350hp.
2(b). More expensive option - Pull the 318 - find broken lower end parts. Have it rebuilt using KB hypereutectic pistons, new rod bolts, complete machining, new everything but crank, rods, and block. Put it back together with a std volume oil pump, windage tray, and same camshaft. It should exceed the 375hp level if the work is top notch.

I'm all for stroking, when the budget is realistic, and when the power expectation warrants it. If you are NOT interested in making more than 450hp, build the 318 or a 360. It's a lot cheaper.
 
moper said:
I agree with using a local shop vs Blueprint. There are some good stories about Blueprint, but there are also a lot of problems. Cost is a restriction or limitation for most of us but it should not be the motivation to make a purchase. The horsepower range you are asking about can be attained with parts you already have and some careful attention and purchasing. How bad were the other cylinder pressure readings? Rather than spending on bigger, spend on better. Unless you have the money for a real budget (I would consider $6-7K if you have no core at this point), and it sounds like you don't, I would advise doing this:
1. Assuming you have the Performer 318/360 intake rather than the 340/360... Sell the 360 heads and intake you have now. Invest in a set of Engine Quest Magnums and a 340/360 type intake.
2(a). Cheaper option - Pull the 318 and pull the heads. See why it has zero compression. If the other cylinders were good, and the reason it's got a dead hole is in the heads or valvetrain, I would install a windage tray an a HV oil pump with a new pickup, a new cam like the 268H Comp cam, and a new timing set. Put it all back together and you will be around 350hp.
2(b). More expensive option - Pull the 318 - find broken lower end parts. Have it rebuilt using KB hypereutectic pistons, new rod bolts, complete machining, new everything but crank, rods, and block. Put it back together with a std volume oil pump, windage tray, and same camshaft. It should exceed the 375hp level if the work is top notch.

I'm all for stroking, when the budget is realistic, and when the power expectation warrants it. If you are NOT interested in making more than 450hp, build the 318 or a 360. It's a lot cheaper.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Post of the day.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^€¥£€~^*#¥|+
 
moper said:
I agree with using a local shop vs Blueprint. There are some good stories about Blueprint, but there are also a lot of problems. Cost is a restriction or limitation for most of us but it should not be the motivation to make a purchase. The horsepower range you are asking about can be attained with parts you already have and some careful attention and purchasing. How bad were the other cylinder pressure readings? Rather than spending on bigger, spend on better. Unless you have the money for a real budget (I would consider $6-7K if you have no core at this point), and it sounds like you don't, I would advise doing this:
1. Assuming you have the Performer 318/360 intake rather than the 340/360... Sell the 360 heads and intake you have now. Invest in a set of Engine Quest Magnums and a 340/360 type intake.
2(a). Cheaper option - Pull the 318 and pull the heads. See why it has zero compression. If the other cylinders were good, and the reason it's got a dead hole is in the heads or valvetrain, I would install a windage tray an a HV oil pump with a new pickup, a new cam like the 268H Comp cam, and a new timing set. Put it all back together and you will be around 350hp.
2(b). More expensive option - Pull the 318 - find broken lower end parts. Have it rebuilt using KB hypereutectic pistons, new rod bolts, complete machining, new everything but crank, rods, and block. Put it back together with a std volume oil pump, windage tray, and same camshaft. It should exceed the 375hp level if the work is top notch.

I'm all for stroking, when the budget is realistic, and when the power expectation warrants it. If you are NOT interested in making more than 450hp, build the 318 or a 360. It's a lot cheaper.
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Thanks that was some good formation! I plan on pulling the engine/trans this weekend so I'll keep you all posted of what I find. I am thinking of building the 318 but I am hoping to leave the bottom end alone(assuming there isn't a hole in the piston!) My other compression numbers were ok. Cylinder 1: 135, 2: 0, 3: 125, 4: 150, 6: 135, 8: 115. The harder was right in my way to get 5 and 7. Would it be realistic to get in the 375 hp range with a 318 stock bottom end?
 
68cuder said:
Thanks that was some good formation! I plan on pulling the engine/trans this weekend so I'll keep you all posted of what I find. I am thinking of building the 318 but I am hoping to leave the bottom end alone(assuming there isn't a hole in the piston!) My other compression numbers were ok. Cylinder 1: 135, 2: 0, 3: 125, 4: 150, 6: 135, 8: 115. The harder was right in my way to get 5 and 7. Would it be realistic to get in the 375 hp range with a 318 stock bottom end?
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345 HP will get you mid to high 12's if you do it right, and a 318 can be made to do it all day long.

FWIW, it's hard to hone a cylinder like you want and keep it round and with out taper. Unless it's really low miles, it's better to bore it so the cylinders are straight and round.

Use 360 heads, leave the 1.88 valves in it, get the throats to 87-88%, strip dominator, hooker 5204 headers, 3.73 gears, and GOOD 3000-3500 RPM converter and welcome to the mid 12's. Just get the piston out of the block about .050-.060 and get a GOOD, CUSTOM HFT cam. A 750 double pumper. Hell, low 12's are not impossible.
 
68cuder said:
awesome! Id love his contact info if you wouldn't mind! and that is exactly what Im thinking! (as far as just get it going and adding speed parts as I go on)
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I wouldn't use those heads, they're not much better after the closed chamber than j heads at the power level your shooting for.
You can spend, in your area or near about 400 on the heads have to rebuild them with a set of eBay stainless valves and another 400 on porting them to about 250cfm, which will be more of a by product of increasing the port volume by raising the roof , wiping out half the guide, push rod pinch relief , and bowl work. At that cfm with the approach I mention will have them around 175-178cc intake port And work great through 6000rpm and will give the air to make more than just 375 hp, with the right cam and tune, more like 460-485 considering you're more than likely going soft on the cam choice.
EQ/RHS in your case is a wa$h.
 
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The thing about the 4" stroke, you don't need gears like you do with a peanut motor, nor the nasty cam that won't idle without a good convertor to go really fast.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The thing about the 4" stroke, you don't need gears like you do with a peanut motor, nor the nasty cam that won't idle without a good convertor to go really fast.
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3.73's are too much gear? My cam will idle at 800 but I don't let it.


It's 2017. This **** is too easy to do it like an emissions deal.


BTW, I agree with you head program.
 
Alright guys so I just talked to a local machines to and he said he could stroke my 318 for me. He didn't know what cubes but I have heard 402. He said that if be looking at around 1900 for the short block and 2500 for the long. Now I'm assuming he was talking about my heads which I don't want to use. Should I consider this?
 
68cuder said:
Alright guys so I just talked to a local machines to and he said he could stroke my 318 for me. He didn't know what cubes but I have heard 402. He said that if be looking at around 1900 for the short block and 2500 for the long. Now I'm assuming he was talking about my heads which I don't want to use. Should I consider this?
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If it's in your budget. Any crank that will fit a 340 will fit the 318. You still need a 360 head, with some minor work and a killer valve job.

The displacement is based on bore diameter.


3.910 bore with a 4.000 stroke is 385 CID.
3.940 bore with a 4.000 stroke is 391 CID.
3.950 bore with a 4.000 stroke is 393 CID.
3.970 bore with a 4.00 stroke is 397 CID.


The math is bore times bore times stroke times .7854 equals time the number of cylinders.


Soooooooooo 3.910 x 3.910 x 4.000 x .7854 = 48.029094 x 8 = 384.23275 or 385 CID.
 
Adding to my point, no body respects the 360 heads, because they don't know how to make them work good...so him selling them to finance the eqs is wishful thinking. He will be out about a grand on heads that do 229 cfm Ootb.
yellow rose said:
3.73's are too much gear? My cam will idle at 800 but I don't let it.


It's 2017. This **** is too easy to do it like an emissions deal.


BTW, I agree with you head program.
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3.73?, nah that's my fave street gear ;) he'll only be buzzing 3500 at 70-75mph with around a 25" tire, that's really nothing imo, I scream down the freeway a lil faster at 3800-4000 rpm and it purs with that solid roller in there.haha
Here's a dirty 2.02 308 int port that does 267@ .500 with guide and bowl work and a touch of staight wall blending right above the ssr, nothing major. The head is dirty and has been sitting on shop floor for a while...

IMAG4047.jpg
 
You can stroke the 318, but then you get into the other required bits that go with it beyond the money for the stroker parts. I do not, and would not, build a 4" stroke engine with hyper pistons. I love them for factory builds - but they are at best boarderline in an engine that can rev to 6K. I can't see the shop doing the shortblock job properly for $1900 out the door. That should about cover the rotating assembly cost. The cheapest cast crank and hyper pistons would run $5-600 on their own. And you don't want the cheap cast crank either. What about the block? Is he sonic testing it? Main studs going in with the align hone? I just don't see it.
On the heads - No way would I wan't a $600 set of heads on a stroker. Do them right and the 360 heads will work fine. Hobble them with stock valves and reused parts and you're looking at disappointment.
In regard to Official's comments I wouldn't want a $400 valve job using all the old parts. The last set of factory iron heads I did with a gasket match, exh seats, all new SI stainless valves, guides, spring seats, springs, retainers, locks, with a 5 angle Serdi valve job went $1300. No porting. Just a gasket match. As done they flowed similar to the EQs at .500. So assuming somehow EQ heads reach $1K you're still doing better than the as-cast LA type heads. Plus the EQs flow about 10% more from .200-.400 and have a closed chamber that matches well with the available dished piston designs.
 
moper said:
You can stroke the 318, but then you get into the other required bits that go with it beyond the money for the stroker parts. I do not, and would not, build a 4" stroke engine with hyper pistons. I love them for factory builds - but they are at best boarderline in an engine that can rev to 6K. I can't see the shop doing the shortblock job properly for $1900 out the door. That should about cover the rotating assembly cost. The cheapest cast crank and hyper pistons would run $5-600 on their own. And you don't want the cheap cast crank either. What about the block? Is he sonic testing it? Main studs going in with the align hone? I just don't see it.
On the heads - No way would I wan't a $600 set of heads on a stroker. Do them right and the 360 heads will work fine. Hobble them with stock valves and reused parts and you're looking at disappointment.
In regard to Official's comments I wouldn't want a $400 valve job using all the old parts. The last set of factory iron heads I did with a gasket match, exh seats, all new SI stainless valves, guides, spring seats, springs, retainers, locks, with a 5 angle Serdi valve job went $1300. No porting. Just a gasket match. As done they flowed similar to the EQs at .500. So assuming somehow EQ heads reach $1K you're still doing better than the as-cast LA type heads. Plus the EQs flow about 10% more from .200-.400 and have a closed chamber that matches well with the available dished piston designs.
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Dave....you didn't read very carefully, I said New stainless, and not stock style.. more like 11/32 +.100 2.02 / 1.60.
Hypers...ah yes, you dog them more than you tout them, too bad because I rev them 7200 in a 340 and doing it over 10 yrs in that motor...kinda proves you wrong and maybe shows you may have done wrong installing them/misused them, or have lil to no personal experience with them to begin with, which I would hate to think that's true, Dave.
Those dirty heads in the pic above AS IS will **** all over the eq's low and mid and stand right next to 2.02 rhs numbers and weigh 18lbs less. I have a set of rhs heads, boat anchors for the flow you get. And hey, just because your shops are high dollar and wanna fund their retirement off of you, doesn't mean the rest of us are standing behind you ready to bend over and take it the same.
Oh and I use those quench hypers in a stroker that's a pretty good amount over 500 hp , solid roller too...your favorite kind with the needle bearing rollers...I bet that's like nails on a chalkboard to you huh? Hyper quench domes as well ...Oh and they're quenched .030 from open chamber j heads @284cfm...milled to 60cc...hope that doesn't give you nite terrors...haha
I do more cracking up when reading some of the posts on here than I did watching the presidential debates. I got into mopars for a few reasons, spending to death was not one them. If you really know mopars...it doesnt cost you your life savings to build one.
 
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