414 build questions

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07raptorgytr

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Hey guys, I'm new to the forum so take it easy on the new guy. Lol. I'm building a 414 stroker for my street driven 73 dart swinger. I'm looking for at least 500 hp on pump gas. Here is my build list. Eagle forged stroker crank, eagle rods, indy 360-1 heads, comp cams (286 294) duration .544 .541lift hydraulic roller, single plane intake. My question is what would be a maximum compression ratio piston could I get away with and still run pump gas? I've heard I could get away with 11.5to1
What's everyone's thoughts?
 
I don't think I'd push it that far. You'll need dished pistons, and you want to get them close to the head. If you can land it in the 10:1 range that will be good for the cam. I'm not sure that cam will get you the number you want. The engine will have to be very efficient to do it with that lift at the valve. You'll definately want to have the heads checked by a competant performance shop (that's NOT Indy). Or buy the heads from a distributor rather than Indy direct.
 
Then what cam specs would be more likely to get to the power Iam searching for.
 
call mike at mrl performance or imm for cam , with those heads you wont hava a prob with that hp, mine is 10.3 to one and pump gas does great:D
 
What's the duration at .050" on that cam?

I ran a Hughes 260/264 @ .050, .628/.633 flat solid in my 408 with 10.9-1 compression and ported Edelbrocks. It probably made 550ish HP and ran on pump 93. In my 3260# 69 Dart it ran 6.57 @ 108 in the 1/8 with 4.10 gears and a 28" tall radial.
 
im running 9.9 -1 and made 550+ on pump gas
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye8lK2CnZPY"]416 Dyno pull - YouTube[/ame]
 
I'm not the sharpest pencil in the can, but why are you going with a single plane manifold with a 360 stroker? Wouldn't you be better off with a two plane considering that you aren't going to be revving as high as a shorter stroke engine would?

Your build looks like you are trying to go two ways at once. High rpm and stroker all at once. Pick one.

I'd focus more on TORQUE than horsepower BECAUSE you are planning a stroker. We don't have any autobahns around here...

I'd plan my engine with a lower compression so I could run on regular pump gas. The power you give up with compression you MORE than make up with displacement. And those heads. And exhaust scavenging. And the right size carb. And red paint. (Scientific fact, red cars go faster, metallic flake optional).

Don't plan the build for the track if you are driving on the street. Unless you're planning on running something like 4.56 gears and never plan to get out of first gear between stoplights on the way to the grocery store.

I wouldn't run that cam either. I'd be more likely to run their XE268HR-10 or XE274HR-10 if I were going to run a Comp Cams cam.
 
What's the duration at .050" on that cam?

I ran a Hughes 260/264 @ .050, .628/.633 flat solid in my 408 with 10.9-1 compression and ported Edelbrocks. It probably made 550ish HP and ran on pump 93. In my 3260# 69 Dart it ran 6.57 @ 108 in the 1/8 with 4.10 gears and a 28" tall radial.

Duration is 236 242
 
maximum compression ratio on pump gas depends on vehicle weight and gear ratio and quench. I get by with 93 octane and 11.5:1 no problem
 
I'm not the sharpest pencil in the can, but why are you going with a single plane manifold with a 360 stroker? Wouldn't you be better off with a two plane considering that you aren't going to be revving as high as a shorter stroke engine would?

Your build looks like you are trying to go two ways at once. High rpm and stroker all at once. Pick one.


I'd focus more on TORQUE than horsepower BECAUSE you are planning a stroker. We don't have any autobahns around here...

I'd plan my engine with a lower compression so I could run on regular pump gas. The power you give up with compression you MORE than make up with displacement. And those heads. And exhaust scavenging. And the right size carb. And red paint. (Scientific fact, red cars go faster, metallic flake optional).

Don't plan the build for the track if you are driving on the street. Unless you're planning on running something like 4.56 gears and never plan to get out of first gear between stoplights on the way to the grocery store.

I wouldn't run that cam either. I'd be more likely to run their XE268HR-10 or XE274HR-10 if I were going to run a Comp Cams cam.

As far as I've seen that is the only intake for these heads offered by indy, unless I missed something on there Web site.
 
Kind of a small cam with those nice heads... Anyway with that cam I would shoot for around 10 to 1. Seems a bit of a mis match. I would look for something in the 550 to 600 lift and at least 245 to 255 @.050 to get to the HP level you want, with the bigger cam I think 10.5 to 11 cr would be fine with 93 juice. I run 11.2 with j heads stock stroke but it's on the raged edge with 200 psi cranking
 
Also the car isn't being built for a Sunday cruiser. More along the lines of a pro street build.
 
Duration is 236 242

so you use the xr286hr? I´ve got this one in my 408, nice cam but not for the last bit of power. I found big gains in going to 1.6 Rockers, this tells me that the engine wants more cam. With these heads, and if you are set on a hydraulic roller, i´d run at least sth. like this Lunati Voodoo (also with 1.6 rockers):

Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 294/302
Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 243/251
Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .560/.565
LSA/ICL: 110/106
Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
RPM Range: 2600-6600

Part Number: 20200713

Michael
 
What lift and duration was you thinking.

With those heads I'd run something in the high 250 to mid 260 @ .050 and 630-650" lift. I think Johnson has a limited travel hydraulic roller that from what I've read works well.

The cam I mentioned in another reply that was in my 408 ran the quickest shifting at 6400. I think with better heads it would've liked to rec a little more. My new Indy head build has a 263/271 @.050" with .734/.741 lift with 1.7 rockers before lash and geometry losses.
 
Heads flow in the 220 range as delievered by Indy for that cam's lift. And the duration at that lift is only 157 degreees. It's not going to make big power as a result. Porting and a good valve job helps the heads, but you have to open the valve further, and keep it open longer, if you want to make biger numbers. Especially given the loss of lift and duration due to the taller lifter, and the higher spring pressure due to the lifter weight itself. Usinf a hydraulic flat tappet, and heads that flow similar at that lift (albeit iron open chambers...) I've made a very efficient 450hp and 500tq. I'm not a fan of hydraulic rollers, but I would be looking at talking to Bullet and getting a custom roller if I was to use one.
 
I'm not the sharpest pencil in the can, but why are you going with a single plane manifold with a 360 stroker? Wouldn't you be better off with a two plane considering that you aren't going to be revving as high as a shorter stroke engine would?

Your build looks like you are trying to go two ways at once. High rpm and stroker all at once. Pick one.

I'd focus more on TORQUE than horsepower BECAUSE you are planning a stroker. We don't have any autobahns around here...

I'd plan my engine with a lower compression so I could run on regular pump gas. The power you give up with compression you MORE than make up with displacement. And those heads. And exhaust scavenging. And the right size carb. And red paint. (Scientific fact, red cars go faster, metallic flake optional).

Don't plan the build for the track if you are driving on the street. Unless you're planning on running something like 4.56 gears and never plan to get out of first gear between stoplights on the way to the grocery store.

I wouldn't run that cam either. I'd be more likely to run their XE268HR-10 or XE274HR-10 if I were going to run a Comp Cams cam.


Torque is a measurement of rotational energy (or physical force), horsepower is a calculation of that same rotational force with consideration for how often that force occurs to determine how much "work" is being done. everything else being equal whenever you increase torque you also increase horsepower. the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Imagine you have a big heavy concrete wheel standing in front of you, You kick the top of it as hard as you can and it moves a little. however far you moved the wheel is sorta like measuring how much torque you applied to it.

Now imagine the guy next to you also has a concrete wheel in front of him, he's kicking his concrete wheel equally as hard as you but doing it twice as often.

He has the same amount of Torque but due to more "kicks per minute" he has a lot more horsepower.

If you were racing, He's gonna beat you to the finish line every time.

This is the basis of how engine performance is measured, except the concrete wheel is the crankshaft and instead of kicks we burn air and fuel once per every TWO revolutions.

When you add a stroker kit to an engine you are giving it a much harder kick.
When you modify the engine produce it's power at higher RPM with a bigger cam or better flowing cylinder heads and headers you are giving it more kicks per minute.

If you wanna be the one who crosses the finish line faster than the next guy, build a motor that kicks harder AND more often! ;)

That's what most people building stroker motors are trying to do!

Now, as for single plane vs dual plane intake manifolds.

Single plane as a general rule will flow more air at high RPM.

Strokers will need more air at ALL speeds, but high RPM is when they can easily be starved for air.

most aftermarket dual plane intakes for small block mopars are made for STREET driven 340 or 360 engines revving to 6000RPM maximum, they're going to struggle with a 400+ cube motor and probably run out of puff at closer to 4800RPM.

The single plane is meant for high revving race 340's and 360's that rev to 7000RPM+

So put the single plane on the stroker 400+ci engine and it will happily rev to 6000RPM and still be nice to drive on the street too.

Think of it like this, If you tell your 14yo kid brother to get a little thin straw and take a sip of your milkshake, as much as he can. he might drink 15% of of it.

You give him a bigger higher flowing straw, and he can still only only sip 16% of it.

He's the street driven small block with the standard stroke. testing out a dual plane and a single plane intake.

So then you try with the little straw and drink 18% of the milkshake. cool, nice gain.

But when you try the big straw. 33% of the milkshake.

You're the stroker motor, testing out dual plane and single plane intakes. you have way bigger lungs and can make the most advantage out of the bigger straw =)

Sorry for the long post guys, back on topic.
 
AMS seems to know a thing or two about mopars lol

They did the machine work on my block, and went through my used Indy 360-2s I bought. Built it myself and later went back to dyno it. Louis says his dyno is not a "happy dyno", and if I was looking for numbers to brag about I better go elsewhere. I have no problem bragging about 605HP. LOL.


To the OP. I'd say great bottom end, nice heads(give them a porting). I'd pick a piston that has you at 11:1. then you can run on 91 octane. With that cam I'd say you'll get to 500HP. But if it were me, I'd go solid roller and bigger. Not like you're building a grocery getter, and you might as well use all those heads will give you. Get your hands on a Barry Grant Mighty Demon 850 or Holley 950.
 
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