440 Overheating 230 degrees

[Oldiron440]

I haven’t had a 440 with iron heads on the dyno that didn’t need 37+ degrees total but we have tried less and found a dramatic torque and horsepower loss, like 20+ numbers. If you’re going to run 33 or 34 I would recommend using a vacuum advance distributor.

 

[Bewy]

The compression ratio is also going to affect the total timing....so the number will vary.

 

[Valman]

Does your distributor have a vacuum advance canister on it? As others have said, your total timing probably needs to come up. - around 36 maybe a bit more. I’d then try around 8 degrees of vac advance to start with.

If you’re going to keep the electric fans, (i wouldn’t) pulley ratio is even more important. 10-30% is a general rule, but 30% would be minimum with electric fans. A high flow thermostat won’t count for much if it’s not getting the volume flow rate in the first place. It’s mostly about getting sufficient water & air flow at low engine speeds - esp. in warm climates.

 

[Kern Dog]

OP writes a title that reads "440 overheating 230 degrees" but I don't recall if it was ever mentioned that it actually boiled over.
To me, the term "overheating" is associated with a sudden purge of coolant once the pressure gets too high for the radiator cap to hold.
If that has not happened, while it may run hotter than you like, it technically has not overheated.
Read the chart:

Lets say you have a 50/50 mix of water and anti-freeze and are using a 16 psi radiator cap. At 230 degrees, you're still 37 degrees from overheating and boiling over.
Now, I wouldn't be comfortable running around at 230 so you do have work to do.

 

[Inertia]

If you put a 50 lb, or 100 lb cap, got the temp up to 300* without it puking, would that be acceptable ?

Anything over the thermostat temp, if the radiator can't keep the temp there, then the cooling system is deficient in some area.

If it runs 200* and you start working the engine. uphill with maybe full trunk of junk. 3 fat friends, if the cooling system can't keep up, the gauge keeps going up, not boiling but at 240*, do you keep going 250*, 300, is it overheating? Nawww.

Of course it is, but, but, it's not puking, - - the hoses and plastic are melting, lol

Please .

 

[Dana67Dart]

Got around to dropping the t stat in some hot water and it did NOT open! Have a Stewart hi flow t stat on the way

Guys...

Post 68.

Bad thermostat.

Everything else is moot till Standup303 replaces it and reports back.

 

[dadsbee]

I'll say it one more time, the only temp that was high was his gauge and sender in the water pump housing. All other temps were acceptable with the IFR gun...

 

[Dana67Dart]

All other temps were acceptable with the IFR gun...

IR temp guns tell you they temp of the outer cast iron not the temp of the coolant which is in contact with the water jacket and cyl walls.

I agree checking the sender and the gauge is important to calibrate the gauge.

But ultimately it was a non functioning thermostat.

 

[standup303]

Well the 180 Stewart t stat didn’t do a damn thing. I must not have tested the old one in hot enough water. Even though water was 200.

I borrowed a pretty fancy temp gun from the HVAC guys at work. The inlet to radiator was showing 221 on the metal vs 240 on the gauge, seems fairly accurate, I could see the actual coolant being hotter.

So Inlet/outlet were showing max temp of 221/212 respectively. The difference in the fin temp shooting the front of the radiator were 15-20 degrees, measuring near inlet and then near outlet. I couldn’t really see any “cold” spots with the thermal gun.

 

[Inertia]

The difference between the inlet/outlet needs to be wayyy more than you have.
Either the rad isn't shedding heat, or you have absolutely no circulation.
Go shoot the temps on your daily driver, my wife's Tracker is 60*.

I think you have a rad problem similar to this, hot coolant flowing down the outsides, the core is plugged. IIRC he had very little difference in temps, here's the thread.
Good luck.

Radiator-Temperature

I am going to try to keep this short. I really don't want this to turn into a bickering match about - aluminum vs copper, thermostat vs no thermostat temperature or degree of thermostat to run have read way to much of it. 1972 Scamp 383, 727 trans w/remote cooler, 3.91 gears, electric fuel...

www.forabodiesonly.com

 

[mopowers]

Or maybe the coolant is flowing too fast. haha. Kidding of course. I wish that old wives tale would die already.

 

[fishmens67]

exhaust gases in the cooling system?

 

[fishmens67]

You never did answer if the housing you have is the restricted one, if it is that's the problem

 

[standup303]

You never did answer if the housing you have is the restricted one, if it is that's the problem

I’m not sure if it’s the restricted one. It’s a 440 source housing.

 

[MopaR&D]

Looks like you're on the right track with the temp delta on the rad being too small. From your first post though you said you have 452 heads, 9.4:1 comp and 32 degrees total timing with no vacuum advance. I still think you need to get the radiator sorted out but you should be running more total advance on an iron-headed BB especially given that you're at high altitude; at least 36° IMO. Also adding vacuum advance will greatly reduce heat rejection into the cooling system while cruising.

Some perspective, when I lived in Fort Collins I took my Duster to a chassis dyno in Loveland (forget the name of the place). He found I had somehow been running 40°+ advance (guess my timing light was off?) even though it didn't ping and that was on a 9:1 360 with open-chamber Edelbrock heads (the ones for factory 340s with pop-up pistons). We backed it down to 36° and didn't lose any power but I definitely slept better at night lol.

 

[standup303]

Looks like you're on the right track with the temp delta on the rad being too small. From your first post though you said you have 452 heads, 9.4:1 comp and 32 degrees total timing with no vacuum advance. I still think you need to get the radiator sorted out but you should be running more total advance on an iron-headed BB especially given that you're at high altitude; at least 36° IMO. Also adding vacuum advance will greatly reduce heat rejection into the cooling system while cruising.

Some perspective, when I lived in Fort Collins I took my Duster to a chassis dyno in Loveland (forget the name of the place). He found I had somehow been running 40°+ advance (guess my timing light was off?) even though it didn't ping and that was on a 9:1 360 with open-chamber Edelbrock heads (the ones for factory 340s with pop-up pistons). We backed it down to 36° and didn't lose any power but I definitely slept better at night lol.

I’ll add some more and see how it acts. Thanks for the info

 

[Dana67Dart]

A small delta ideling in the driveway would be natural.

Get your bbq thermometers out and check while driving.

 

[Dana67Dart]

The difference is subtle from the outside, but it's a night and day different in internal passage area. From what I recall, the difference was similar on the passenger side passage too

OPs photo, looks to be tapered.

I have heard that ring gap too tight can cause overheating

 

[fishmens67]

OPs photo, looks to be tapered.

That's the restricted version.

 

[mopowers]

OPs photo, looks to be tapered.

Good eye. That's where I'd look. If you can't get your finger through to your third knuckle from the water pump side, it's too restrictive.

 

[RustyRatRod]

For God's sake yall. He's diagnosed his own issue right here for ALL to see, but the rings are too tight? Yall caint be serious. His radiator is only droppin the temp NINE DEGREES. There's your sign. duhhhhhh

 

[fishmens67]

Put the factory housing back on and I bet the overheating issue goes away, I've been through it, bought a cheap $50 housing from Summit and found out without changing anything else

 

[standup303]

How do I verify coolant is circulating. Pop the cap and let the car get to temp and see if it starts moving? Still doesn’t seem like a full proof approach. I’d hate to drop $800 on a radiator setup and have it be a pump or restricted housing.

I will say, for small one off parts 440 source has been great but overall seems like a bunch of China made crap.

 

[standup303]

A small delta ideling in the driveway would be natural.

Get your meat there miniatures out and check while driving.

I’ll rig it up next week.

 

[famous bob]

I’m not sure if it’s the restricted one. It’s a 440 source housing.

I RUN A 440 SOURCE ALUM. HOUSING , THE FIRST THING I DID WAS TO COMPARE IT WITH THE STOCK CAST IRON HOUSING , AND CLEANED IT UP A BIT AND GROUND THE PASSAGES TO THE SAME SIZE AS THE STOCKER /EVEN WENT A LITTLE BIGGER...