1. Ww58_bandit

    Ww58_bandit Well-Known Member

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    Another option i have thought about last couple day as engine is low compression is going the blower route.

    How much work is needed for engine to safe be supercharged and run low boost
     
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    • Oldiron440

      Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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      You need to rebuild that completely stock 440 before you start thinking about blowers and such. Just a good blueprint with a cam and valvtrain will get you over 500 hp. Plus it will get rid of those 850 gram cast pistons that don't like going 5000 rpm after fifty years. Just a solid blueprinted shortblock with decent pistons and a mild mechanical cam with if you could swing a set of aluminum heads, 600 hp if you can't but you can do some work on your own your looking at 525 hp and a engin that's not a bomb. It will run to 6500 with no problems.
       
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      • Ww58_bandit

        Ww58_bandit Well-Known Member

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        What heads and cam would ypu recommend and dont i need to pull the compression ratio up on engine to rum desent power
         
      • Garrett Ellison

        Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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        Wow! That’s got some slop alright. If you just want to run the car as is to see what it does with the cam set right, you’ll need a piston stop to confirm TDC is marked correctly on the balancer. After you confirm that, set #1 to TDC firing and pull the left hand rocker cover, and rotate your cam until both valves are closed. It would be beneficial to do this first to see how far off it is and then install a new timing set.
         
      • Garrett Ellison

        Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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        Of course, old iron is right. The slop in the timing set is just the beginning of the engine issues. A rebuild with zero deck flat tops would definitely be a step in the right direction.
         
      • Jadaharabi

        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Looking at the timing gear on top in pictures 2 and 3 you will see a little dot On that gear in about the one position. Looks like a circle.
        Turn the crankshaft until that dot is down at the 6 position.
        That should bring the dot on the small gear on the crankshaft into alignment with the dot on that big gear.
        The dot on the top gear will be at 6 position and the dot on the crankshaft gear will be at the 12 position. That is if they line up correctly.
         
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        • Garrett Ellison

          Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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          What Jadaharabi said, I had a moment and neglected to mention the dot to dot. I don't believe it's jumped time but probably has 5-10 degrees of retard by chain slop and gear wear. There's probably enough wear to be able to take a link out of the chain and still get it all back together.
           
          Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
        • Oldiron440

          Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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          If you choose to just put a timing chain set on I would buy a decent set as it can stay with the engine as you improve it. I would replace it and BEFORE reassembling the motor do a compression test on it. I suspect that it will fail with either the heads or rings or both needing work. I just don't see the need to make more power with a motor that's wore out.. but a new timing set will at least give you an accurate compression test.
           
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          • Garrett Ellison

            Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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            Agreed all day long, extra stress on a worn out short block will lead to a broken short block. I would just get it running to it's current potential without any extra speed parts as much as possible before a proper rebuild. There is a world of difference in taking a light short wheelbase (nearly square!) car that is running 16's and then setting it up with the potential to run tens. You may want to see how it does in the 12 to 13 second range before going "all out" to see how it's going to handle a pile of grunt.
             
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            • Ww58_bandit

              Ww58_bandit Well-Known Member

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              Checked the timing marks this morning these line up exactally. Would i still het retard due to chain slop???
               
            • famous bob

              famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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              I haven`t followed this thread closely , but the first thing I would do is find out how to degree a cam ,and definitely get rid of that alum. gear . timing chain slop only retards ur timing
              the amount the cam will move w/o the crank moving = bad.

              After GOING BACK TO THE PICS, IT LOOKS TO ME LIKE SOMEONE INSTALLED UR CAM WRONG , IF IT WOULD HAVE JUMPED THAT MUCH , I`D THINK THE UPPER TEETH WOULD BE TORN UP !
               
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              • Garrett Ellison

                Garrett Ellison Amateur driver on public roadway, do not imitate.. FABO Gold Member

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                I reread that, here’s a video on timing gear mark alignment. It’s not 12:00crank and six cam, but vice versa
                 
              • Jadaharabi

                Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                You need to re-watch your video to time the cam is in the six position on the big gear and on the 12 position on the little gear. If you watch your video you will see that he is timing the distributor which if your dot-to-dot is at the bottom and the top is a hundred eighty degrees out for your distributor. What he is telling you is to crank it so that the dot Is at the top on both gears in order to be at top dead center to put the distributor in.
                 
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                • SplangJ

                  SplangJ FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Those timing chains wear quickly. Buy a Hughes whiplash cam designed for low comp, new cheapo roller timing chain set, decent dual plane intake, 4bbl carb, 34*_36* total advance, have fun with a much faster car. Oil pressure looked good, might last a long time.
                   
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                  • famous bob

                    famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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                    Don't do cheapo chain if ur going to run some stiffer valve springs , get a good one to start with-----
                     
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                    • Oldiron440

                      Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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                      Cloyes Street Billet True Roller Timing Set
                      This is as cheap as I would get for timing set.

                      I've never seen an iron head 440 on the dyno that didn't respond well to 38° total timing. Even more if the heads are completely stock.
                       
                      Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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                      • SplangJ

                        SplangJ FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        Really? I’ve run the basic non billet ones for years. My 500” bb has a single bolt big sprocket to make things sound more ominous. That’s how it came as a short block though, I certainly would have preferred a billet set. I was thinking save some dough on that mild engine.
                         
                      • Oldiron440

                        Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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                        That's a three bolt and what I would use because I only use mechanical cams but the hydraulic cam can use a single bolt. The thing that is nice is the key way on the crank but I have used the basic Cloyes timing sets for years. I can't and won't argue with you on that. I do run a button on mine also even though its said that you don't need to and my timing cover is always been deformed from it.
                         
                      • Ww58_bandit

                        Ww58_bandit Well-Known Member

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                        Rechecked timing piston 1 at t.d.c

                        Both marks are at 12oclock then removed dizzy cap and the rotor arm is pointing to lead no.1 so i beleive the cam is timed correct. Is the easy was to get compression ratio up to install flat top pistons??
                         
                      • yellow rose

                        yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                        That just means the dots line up. If you don't put a degree wheel on it, you have no idea what the cam timing is.
                         
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                        • Oldiron440

                          Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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                          As lose as the chain is on the gears I'd say it was lucky to have ran at all.
                           
                          Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
                        • Ww58_bandit

                          Ww58_bandit Well-Known Member

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                          Must be close to what needs to be as remobed rocker covers and both rockers move
                           
                        • Oldiron440

                          Oldiron440 Well-Known Member

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                          With the chain that stretched can can be running 10 to 15 degrees retarded under power, you're lucky it runs at all. The cam is not close!!! The timing chain set is ready for the scrap barrel!
                          But I'm not the one making a hundred horsepower with a tunnel ramed 440 so what do I know.
                           
                          Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
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                          • yellow rose

                            yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                            Then look at the rockers when they are in overlap. That will tell you if you are advanced, retarded or straight up.

                            BTW, what is "close"? A couple of degrees can make a major power difference. That chain fits like socks on a rooster. If it's not at least 10 degrees retarded it's because it wasn't times correct to begins with.
                             
                          • Jadaharabi

                            Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            I would put a new timing set on your motor. Put it back together, check the compression, reset the timing and see if that fixes it.
                             
                            Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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