47 degrees initial time? help!!!

-
T56MaxTorq said:
Those dial back lights and msd make for some interesting results. I doubt it would start with a true 40* without some nasty kicking back. I use the cheapest, most simple light with msd. I wouldn't even worry about what the initial timing is. Set it to 35* at 3000 rpm, double check idle timing and forget it. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Im gonna see what it does shortly. I put hillbilly marks on it out to 40* 5 10 15 20 30 40
 
First set your balancer to TDC then Back your cam- oil pump shaft back a couple notches with a big flathead screwdriver and reset you plug wires on the new rotation worked for me.
 
Had the same problem on my 340. Had to adjust the timing so far forward that the vacuum advance hit the manifold. I pulled the distributor and backed off the oil pump shaft 1 tooth. I then moved the plug wires to the new locations. Worked for me.
 
jimbo said:
Had the same problem on my 340. Had to adjust the timing so far forward that the vacuum advance hit the manifold. I pulled the distributor and backed off the oil pump shaft 1 tooth. I then moved the plug wires to the new locations. Worked for me.
Click to expand...
That doesn't sound like the same issue he has. He said he turned it back and it didn't run right.

I have seen some cheaper dial back timing lights read crazy stuff with a MSD ign. I spent the money for a good Snap-On light and it seems to work right on everything
 
turn the idle screw up, then try to retard timing.
 
x2^^. I would back the timing down, increase the idle speed with the screw. back the timing back again, increase, etc. Then set the rest of the carb. I think the carb's base stuff isn't set properly.
 
Just trying to learn something along the way hear- isn't the timing the timing no matter what the carb is doing ?
 
j par said:
Just trying to learn something along the way hear- isn't the timing the timing no matter what the carb is doing ?
Click to expand...
Idle speed and vacuum. When you advance the timing idle speed increases so you close the plates a little. Conversely if the timing is over advanced and you retard it the engine requires more throttle opening. However 40 plus degrees indicates another issue to me. Rotor indexing or weak spark or both. Maybe even mix matched distributor internals.
 
MoparOrNokar said:
Im gonna see what it does shortly. I put hillbilly marks on it out to 40* 5 10 15 20 30 40
Click to expand...
---And---, with a non-dial light Your readings were ????
Oh, by-the-by, You can not use the 'grey' tac signal wire on Your 6AL
for an accurate #1 reading :)
---And---, with a non-dial light Your readings were/are ????
 
Last edited:
mech1nxh said:
---And---, with a non-dial light Your readings were ????
Oh, by-the-by, You can not use the 'grey' tac signal wire on Your 6AL
for an accurate #1 reading :)
---And---, with a non-dial light Your readings were/are ????
Click to expand...
Still waiting to get a chance. Wont be till saturday now. Daddy detail men
 
Ok guys. I got a couple min in the garage. Set the initial time at 14* with the dist unhooked and plugged. Then i set idle to about 1k. Hooked dist back up. Idle went up so i tamed it back down. Ran rpm to 4k and timing showed 40* seems to be snappy and hot start was decent. Sound like im on the right track? Just gotta bleed brakes saturday morn and i can test drive. Showing 9 on the vac gauge. Nest i could get
 
I'm surprised it doesn't want more timing. I got a XE274H in my 340 and I've got it at 22 initial. And could go more. Hot starts no problem.
 
I do not own a MSD box, but it's a multi-spark in the lower RPM right? So is the root cause here the fact that the timing light is driven by the spark signal in the wire and most likely either catches the first or the last MSD pulse?
 
M_Body_Coupe said:
I do not own a MSD box, but it's a multi-spark in the lower RPM right? So is the root cause here the fact that the timing light is driven by the spark signal in the wire and most likely either catches the first or the last MSD pulse?
Click to expand...

MSD stands for "multiple spark discharge" because it will strike a spark up to 4 times at low rpm's. generally the multi-spark feature disables around 3000 rpm to allow the coil to have enough saturation time at high rpm's. otherwise you would get a weak spark and poor fuel burn. This is the reason why "coil on plug/individual coils per a cylinder" are becoming increasingly popular in the performance scene. you get a hotter spark throughout the rpm range.
 
j par said:
Just trying to learn something along the way hear- isn't the timing the timing no matter what the carb is doing ?
Click to expand...

Yes - but only when the two are working together. In this case I think the timing is doing the majority of work, the carb is not doing enough. I think you're confusing the old adage about tuning that says set timing first, then the carb because "timing affects carb, carb does not affect timing." That is assuming the carb is at a setting to allow the engine to run.
If the carb was even remotely close the engine would be running at a higher rpm due to excessive initial timing, not dying.
 
T-port sync, read my sig.
If you idle with the primaries too far then you get all kinds of troubles, and you've got 'em.
So it's not timing first, nor carb first. It's T-port sync first.Always.That cam should idle at 750 easy, and with the right tune, I see under 700 possible.But get the T-port synced first!
40* power timing is waaay too much. It will run fine on that at PT but at WOT, it can destroy your engine pretty quick. At PT and cruising I have had engines that liked over 60*. That's what the vacuum advance is for.
Hooking the V-can back up, and having the idle speed go up, is a sure sign that the T-port sync is out to lunch.Quit messing around, and get it synced.
 
Ok i have the timing and carb figured out. Now i see a balancer issue. I will make a new thread for it. Appears to be separating
 
Nah i checked timing mark. Still dead nuts zero. Noticed as i was cranking the engine the balancer has a slight wobble to it. The awesome part is im tapped out of money and the balance guy wants $80 to balance the new one that i still have to buy. Might just have to roll the dice on this one for a month or 2 lol
 
MoparOrNokar said:
Sound like im on the right track?
Click to expand...

Not to me. Sounds like you are doing a lot of guesswork.
MoparOrNokar said:
Ok i have the timing and carb figured out. Now i see a balancer issue. I will make a new thread for it. Appears to be separating
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you can have the timing figured and then say you have a balancer coming apart...........

Said this earlier, said it a thousand times, so has crackedback

1....Use a piston stop. Verify TDC is accurate

2....Especially with multispark / MSD, take measures to insure the timing light is actually accurate

3....Map your distributor advance IE determine if it needs recurved and what is "in it" for mechanical advance limits and rate. If you have an MSD and timing light problems, this might mean scaring up a distributor machine, or "rigging" a temporarly ignition system IE HEI conversion by which you can eliminate the MSD problem.

4....Determine one or other FIRST, either determine where idle needs to be, then determine where max power needs to be, and then see if distributor advance meets these two points. There are several ways to go about this.

5....last deal with carburetor / idle

trainwreck.jpg
 
I checked tdc with a stop. Its dead nuts on zero. Earlier i stated the timing was in fact way advanced and the carb was idled down enough to make it work. Last night i marked a hillbilly timing tape and figured it that out. I set initial timing at 16 and full total was 40. Need to back it off a little i think. Checked transfer slots on carb and they are just peeking at curb idle. Then i noticed the balancer while the starter was cranking. Slight wobble. Hasnt slipped yet because i tripple checked the tdc mark. Couple weeks i can afford a new balancer and to have ot balanced to the old one
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top