5.9L, Melling HV pump, stock pan, dual remote oil filters

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subcom

subcom

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Will my oil requirements be covered with the above?
This is a street/strip combo I'm building. I don't want to go with a deep pan, but obviously don't want to starve the engine of oil under race conditions. This will be a ~6k RPM combo. Not sure what added capacity the remote filters will provide. Maybe an additional 1.5-2 quarts with big enough filters? So about 5.5-6 quarts total with the stock center sump car pan.
 
I might consider a standard volume pump unless the motor has a lot of clearance built in to it.
The extra quart that a second filter provides doesn't mean as much when there is no oil in the pan to pump into the motor. The thing I would pay close attention to if you are set on this is oil drain back......make sure that it gets back into the pan with out major pooling in the valley or the heads.
An accusump would be a Bandaid for what you want , but a deeper pan would be best.
 
Do you plan on adding any baffles to control the oil? I can guarantee you'll starve the oil pickup on hard take offs with a stock pan and no baffles and you know what that means, toasted bearings. I 2nd the use of a stock volume pump unless your running loose bearing clearances. A stock volume pump will pump everything that a stock pickup can give it so you really don't gain anything running a HV pump if you use a stock pickup. Tubtar is also right about the dual filters not adding anything in terms of more oil volume. That is solely a function of the pan size. IMO every street/strip engine needs a better than stock pan, i.e. more volume and baffles

If the reason you don't want to go with a deep pan is your worried about ground clearance look into a Kevco of Milodon low profile pan. I run a Kevco on mine and it has plenty of ground clearance.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. So either run a stock pump with stock pan with some risk of oil starvation under hard launches or, deep pan, HV pump and low to no risk?

Does anybody race with a stock, non-baffled pan and pump?
 
subcom said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. So either run a stock pump with stock pan with some risk of oil starvation under hard launches or, deep pan, HV pump and low to no risk?

Does anybody race with a stock, non-baffled pan and pump?
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I tack-welded a baffle into my stock pan after reading two cases on here where guys trashed their bearings from racing with slicks and no baffles in stock pans... I would say stick with the stock pump and pan and just add a baffle and windage tray, or go with an aftermarket pan
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
I tack-welded a baffle into my stock pan after reading two cases on here where guys trashed their bearings from racing with slicks and no baffles in stock pans... I would say stick with the stock pump and pan and just add a baffle and windage tray, or go with an aftermarket pan
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i know a stock pump/ pick up will suck a stock pan dry on the top end too. I have seen it at 6k rpm with a 383. stock pan and 5 qt. oil. if your racing you need racing parts. you could always have your stock sump extended 1.5"
 
younggun2.0 said:
i know a stock pump/ pick up will suck a stock pan dry on the top end too. I have seen it at 6k rpm with a 383. stock pan and 5 qt. oil. if your racing you need racing parts. you could always have your stock sump extended 1.5"
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Very true but I'd imagine that's more of a concern with sustained high-RPM running. Deep pans are of course the best but I'm just making a point that a baffle in a stock pan is still better than no baffle at all...
 
subcom said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. So either run a stock pump with stock pan with some risk of oil starvation under hard launches or, deep pan, HV pump and low to no risk?

Does anybody race with a stock, non-baffled pan and pump?
Click to expand...

Don't risk it, it's a days worth of work to make and add a baffle, and next to free. You just can't beat that.
 
Hmm, I got a stock style Mildon oil pan and it has a baffle welded by the rear of the sump. I run the HV oil pump too and spin my 340 to 6,300. Once I went flat out in top gear for a good bit, I have no problems with it.

Did have the short block deburred for better oil drain back and I always run 20w-50 racing oil, again, no problems and over 5,000 miles with 3.91 gears in back with no OD and I go 70 mph plus on the freeways unless its for a long distance ride.

I do run 5 full quarts and top off when a half quart low, run the KN 2004 oil filter--the short filter
 
subcom said:
Thanks for the feedback guys. So either run a stock pump with stock pan with some risk of oil starvation under hard launches or, deep pan, HV pump and low to no risk?

Kinda. Like I said earlier you don't need a HV pump unless the bearing clearances are loose. Do you know what the clearances are? If you run a HV pump with tight bearing clearances all your doing is wasting energy turning the higher capacity pump and heating the oil more
Click to expand...
.

Does anybody race with a stock, non-baffled pan and pump?
Click to expand...

Yes some guys do. Right away they get to rebuild their engines too because oil starvation on take off under power will trash an engine in a big hurry.

If you plan on racing and the car hooks up don't even think about not running a baffled pan. JMO
 
SCREW THAT.

You want an accumulator. Problem solved.

Get one with a solenoid, and it primes your motor on startup, too. With choice Mobil1, your motor will live till the Second Coming.
 
jos51700 said:
SCREW THAT.

You want an accumulator. Problem solved.

Get one with a solenoid, and it primes your motor on startup, too. With choice Mobil1, your motor will live till the Second Coming.
Click to expand...

jos51700 said:
In your face!
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=13600
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Price it out before you get any face time.
Over 300.00 for the accumulator and solenoid.
You haven't bought a line or fitting yet.
If you decide to use slip on and rubber , you will deserve every misfortune that befalls you.
My personal jury is still out on push lock hose here......much higher pressure than my fuel system.
But figure an easy 100.00 , and probably more for hoses and fittings.
Once you get north of 400.00 , the pan baffle looks like a pretty good investment.
A Kevco pan and pick up is about half the price of an accumulator set up.
And I am not being a cheapskate.
I have a Steff's pan and an accumulator on my car , so I have some idea of what this **** costs.
For your deal , I'd look Kevco pan , stock volume pump , drive , enjoy , repeat. One thing to consider if you go with the high volume pump is the drive shaft. Don't waste your time with the stocker in this application.
But unless your motor is pretty loose , the high volume pump isn't really necessary.
And unless you have a really high heat issue , 20-50 could be considered over kill.
The thinking has changed on viscosity over the years as oil technology has improved.
I'm not saying go to 0-5 , but 10-30 or 10-40 is usually adequate.
 
Thanks again guys for all the feedback. I'm considering the Kevko now. I think it will be more cost effective than paying somebody to fab and install a baffle in my stock pan since I don't have the tools to do it myself.
 
tubtar said:
Price it out before you get any face time.
Over 300.00 for the accumulator and solenoid.
You haven't bought a line or fitting yet.
If you decide to use slip on and rubber , you will deserve every misfortune that befalls you.
My personal jury is still out on push lock hose here......much higher pressure than my fuel system.
But figure an easy 100.00 , and probably more for hoses and fittings.
Once you get north of 400.00 , the pan baffle looks like a pretty good investment.
A Kevco pan and pick up is about half the price of an accumulator set up.
And I am not being a cheapskate.
I have a Steff's pan and an accumulator on my car , so I have some idea of what this **** costs.
For your deal , I'd look Kevco pan , stock volume pump , drive , enjoy , repeat. One thing to consider if you go with the high volume pump is the drive shaft. Don't waste your time with the stocker in this application.
But unless your motor is pretty loose , the high volume pump isn't really necessary.
And unless you have a really high heat issue , 20-50 could be considered over kill.
The thinking has changed on viscosity over the years as oil technology has improved.
I'm not saying go to 0-5 , but 10-30 or 10-40 is usually adequate.
Click to expand...

I won't disagree, it isn't cheap, but subcom never said a word about cheap, he asked about best. Kevco pans are nice pieces and get the job done, to be sure.
Fact is, there's no substitute for pressure, and that's what the accumulator does. No windage tray in the world primes an oiling system, and no pan in the world actually stores pressure. Toss a pump shaft, spit a lifter, slash a pan open on a railroad crossing, and the accumulator can save your bee-hind.
If cost is no object, I'd throw it all in there! For me, the accumulator is nice because it adds capacity, pressure, sticker real-estate...You know, the important stuff.

I figured the costs of the hoses and fittings and junk would be a wash either way, what with the OP asking dual remote mount and all that, but you're right: NO justification to skimp on hoses and fittings, ever.

Does anyone make a decent dry-sump system that's affordable?
 
The best thing you can do is start with top quality machining. No taper and proper clearances goes a long way to keeping the lower end solid. I've street raced, drag raced, and highway raced over miles and miles with stock pans with no baffles. I always run a windage tray. I don't use HV pumps on engines with good clearances but I do use HP pumps - a standard pump with a higher pressure relief. If it was me - I'd make sure the valley is deburred and I drill and smooth a few new holes where oil can pool. Run a windage tray so the oil that does go down gets to the sump and the oil in the sump isn't picked up and caught by the crank. 6K is not really high rpm, and drag racing is not "sustained" rpm.
I've installed the accumulators. When it's all said and done you're goign to spend upwards of $600-700. They are nice but IMO not needed unless you're road racing. Properly tuned, properly maintained, and properly warmed up a drag race engine will last a very long time without one. They have for decades.
 
jos51700 said:
Does anyone make a decent dry-sump system that's affordable?
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If you find out , let me know. :D
I dumped my first R block because the rear cap wasn't machined for a pump and I started pricing dry sump systems.
Even a wet sump with a remote pump gets pricey real quick.
 
jos51700 said:
Does anyone make a decent dry-sump system that's affordable?
Click to expand...

My assumption is that if someone's building an engine that will cost $6-8K in parts not including the oil system, that "affordable" means "affordable for the owner". My next question would be can one have a 2nd engine built from the ground up for less than the cost of the dry sump? How about even 25% of the 2nd engine's cost? If not, I'd say the cost is affordable but hard to stomach. Maybe the sticker shock can be mellowed or justified by looking into the power a good oil system frees up, or thinking about how important it is to protect that overall engine investment, or how important it is to continue to race without worrying about the reliability of the engine.

Like everything else for a car: "Speed costs money Son. How fast do you want to go?"
 
moper said:
My assumption is that if someone's building an engine that will cost $6-8K in parts not including the oil system, that "affordable" means "affordable for the owner". My next question would be can one have a 2nd engine built from the ground up for less than the cost of the dry sump? How about even 25% of the 2nd engine's cost? If not, I'd say the cost is affordable but hard to stomach. Maybe the sticker shock can be mellowed or justified by looking into the power a good oil system frees up, or thinking about how important it is to protect that overall engine investment, or how important it is to continue to race without worrying about the reliability of the engine.

Like everything else for a car: "Speed costs money Son. How fast do you want to go?"
Click to expand...

It started with a bare block , and I was totally ignorant as to the many variations the R blocks present.
Once I got the block , I started reading and quickly changed directions.
It was the combo platter of dry sump and 9.2 " deck height that made the decision to bail on that one very easy.
I took a small hit selling the first block and learned a valuable lesson.......that I keep re-learning as I go. :D
I looked at used dry sump goodies and it might have worked.
But used isn't always the bargain you think it is.
I could go into left field with a classic thread derail about used Weber belt drives here.
I am trying to buy champagne on a beer budget with my deal , which is why it has taken four years to get this close.
If the good Lord's willin and the creek don't rise , I will be driving by late May or so.
Shake the bugs out , do a couple test days and hopefully achieve my life long dream of having a " street " car that can do a proper wheelie.
I never considered "affordable " , only " achievable ".
 
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