6 point vs. 12 point

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Princess Valiant

Princess Valiant

A.K.A. Rainy Day Auto
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So I am really into craftsman tools. Like really into them, so much that I consider myself a craftsman tool memorabilia collector and I love all things related to the old Sears. Sears was my store even when they played me dirty when I worked for them.

So back on topic: I'm trying to complete a couple sets of sockets that I have had for a decade and a half. So I go to lowes and accept that I will have to fill in my sets with the CMM part numbers they have that indicate china made stuff (I'm not totally against the new tools) but I found that two local lowes stores do not carry 12 point 3/8 drive deep well sockets. WTH.

It seems that sockets are only available in 6 point, YET, combination wrenches are all 12 point and 6 point wrenches seem to be non existant in my local stores.

1. Is there a logical reason for this or is this just incompentcy on the part of my local lowes stores?
2. Is one better than the other in regards to 6 point vs. 12. I always felt the 6 point would be stronger because of more surface contact with the fastener?
 
That’s the way I see it. 12 point can give you better positioning, especially with a breaker bar.
I have a slew of old craftsmen sockets. What are you wanting?
 
I've always tried to use the correct socket and wrench with the correct bolt. For example a 12 point wrench/socket for a 12 point bolt head and 6 point with 6 point bolt. Of course its not always doable. In tight quarters a 12 point on a 6 point bolt can be helpful.
 

As far as ive always thought, a 12 point is the way to go when in tighter spots, grips the fastener in multiple spots. Its not good for Hi Torque situations as it will strip itself or fastener.
We used a lot of slugging wrenches back in the power house and they were all 6 point
I have both 6 and 12 point sockets

Just watched another video, Snap on 12 point didnt slip or strip. I have had 12 point sockets that did strip however
 
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A good indicator of engineering/quality: what do aircraft use?
 
I've always used high quality wrenches and sockets where I know high torque exists where I have to remove or torque to a high degree of tightness. 6 or 12 point will get the job done. I have gotten away from using sockets and wrenches that grip on the points. I like those that use the flats to grip, like the Snap On Flank Drive. Since that copyright ran out, now everybody has a version. If it's not flank drive "of some sort" I watch what I use it on very carefully. When I am doing engine work, for example, I do not use cheap tools that grab the points of a fastener. And of course with a 12 point fastener, you have no choice but to use a 12 point or splined tool. I just make sure I use a quality tool so as not to strip the fastener. You can be a Craftsman cheerleader all you want, but if they don't have some kind of flank drive system, they are a really inferior product. Even some of the Harbor Freight lines do now.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've always used high quality wrenches and sockets where I know high torque exists where I have to remove or torque to a high degree of tightness. 6 or 12 point will get the job done. I have gotten away from using sockets and wrenches that grip on the points. I like those that use the flats to grip, like the Snap On Flank Drive. Since that copyright ran out, now everybody has a version. If it's not flank drive "of some sort" I watch what I use it on very carefully. When I am doing engine work, for example, I do not use cheap tools that grab the points of a fastener. And of course with a 12 point fastener, you have no choice but to use a 12 point or splined tool. I just make sure I use a quality tool so as not to strip the fastener. You can be a Craftsman cheerleader all you want, but if they don't have some kind of flank drive system, they are a really inferior product. Even some of the Harbor Freight lines do now.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the education. I'd never heard of flank drive before now; I'll be paying close attention to what I've got next time. Virtually all of what I've got was acquired second hand at garage sales, etc., so there's really a mish mash going on.
 
Think of it this way, you usually use sockets out in the open with longer handled ratchets and breaker bars for more torque. 6 point sockets are naturally stronger by design. The box end of a wrench is often used at hard to get places where a 12 point may get a better position and the torque is limited to the length of a wrench. 6 point for sockets and 12 point for wrenches. I have sold plenty of the opposite. Ever see a brake bleeder wrench in a 12 point? You probably won't. See where I am going here?
 
RustyRatRod said:
I've always used high quality wrenches and sockets where I know high torque exists where I have to remove or torque to a high degree of tightness. 6 or 12 point will get the job done. I have gotten away from using sockets and wrenches that grip on the points. I like those that use the flats to grip, like the Snap On Flank Drive. Since that copyright ran out, now everybody has a version. If it's not flank drive "of some sort" I watch what I use it on very carefully. When I am doing engine work, for example, I do not use cheap tools that grab the points of a fastener. And of course with a 12 point fastener, you have no choice but to use a 12 point or splined tool. I just make sure I use a quality tool so as not to strip the fastener. You can be a Craftsman cheerleader all you want, but if they don't have some kind of flank drive system, they are a really inferior product. Even some of the Harbor Freight lines do now.
Click to expand...
Flank drive? Ya, MAC designed that and used it until the patent ran out.
 
Craftsman was the go to for most all my life. I still buy some stuff, Lowes and Ace Hardware carries them.. the warranty ain't the same though. Anyway, 6 pt for 6pt. And good quality tools for high torque fasteners
,
 
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I disagree 12 point is weaker. With a 12 point fastener and a 12 point tool, there are more contact points to distribute the load. If it's a flank drive tool doing the job, that's a lot of contact area. That's why you see spline drive in a lot of really heavy duty applications. More contact points = more strength.
 
I try to stick to 6 point sockets on pt bolts...as often as possible. Especially if they are a little rusty. 6pt fit tighter. Sometimes you only get 1 shot especially if they are stubborn.
 
Mopar44134 said:
I try to stick to 6 point sockets on pt bolts...as often as possible. Especially if they are a little rusty. 6pt fit tighter. Sometimes you only get 1 shot especially if they are stubborn.
Click to expand...
Or slightly rounded from the last guy that was there.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I disagree 12 point is weaker. With a 12 point fastener and a 12 point tool, there are more contact points to distribute the load. If it's a flank drive tool doing the job, that's a lot of contact area. That's why you see spline drive in a lot of really heavy duty applications. More contact points = more strength.
Click to expand...
Now that the patents have run out and there are no world wide patents, most of the tools now have flank drive. They do work.
 
I have always liked 12 point for the additional angles available when tightening and loosening. I like the looks of 12 point mostly. My entire engine is almost all ARP 12 point bolts, nuts and studed where possible.

IMG_8666.jpg


IMG_8664.jpg
 
Most of my tools are old school Sears Craftsman, I always felt that for the money they were a good buy, not really sold on the "new Craftsman" stuff, but honestly haven't tried any of it yet. Still kinda pissed about the "lifetime warranty" being a dead issue, at least here it seems to be. Last time I inquired, Lowe's told me I would have to return the full set in order to get a socket or ratchet replaced. Hell no, I'll keep my old school stuff, thanks.
I do have a few Snap-On and Mac tools, mostly specialty tools that I needed at the time, but I have also bought some Mastercraft wrenches recently, (sold here by Canadian Tire stores), not sure if that brand is available in the U.S. or not. They seem to be a good quality brand, and have a lifetime guarantee too. I don't remember breaking many of them at this point, but the ones I have have been replaced, no questions asked, just like Sears used to.
As for the 6 point vs 12 point, I typically use a 6 point socket for most fasteners, especially any that are high torque load, or in areas prone to corrosion, like brake bleeders, had too many bad experiences with 12 points slipping and wrecking the fastener and/or my knuckles. That said, I also have some really old 12 point S-K sockets that were my old man's, they probably date back to the 1950s, maybe even the 40s. Them things are extremely tough, very thick wall construction, I have never seen one of them break or slip, and I've put some extreme torque loads on them.
 
I notice that you see a lot more 12 point sockets being sold used at swap meets. Of course, a lot of them look worn.
 
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