60s /6 to 727 adapter

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volaredon

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This last Friday I picked up a complete 225 and 727 supposedly pulled out of a 64 pickup.
The whole reason I got this is for the adapter plate they used to use on /6-727 applications before they came out with the/6 specific 727 case, as I also have an A500 from a Dakota sitting here. That adapter plate is tough to get these days.
I have a while and I'm not sure which way I'm going on this build but it gives me another option (besides adding to my confusion on which way to go)
This is for my 85 d150.
Ok now down to the meat and potatoes...
I have heard about having to grind "something" about the starter hole to make this combo work// as this was also at the beginning of LA series engine production and that the trans actually has the "poly" 318 Bell housing which is supposed to bolt up to an LA but is somehow slightly different than the poly.
This adapter puts the starter down low where it would be on a small block instead of high and tight like a typical/6.
What has to be " ground out" to work with the actual "LA" series engine trans bolt pattern?
Whether I use this combo or whether I instead put the 833OD in and row my own gears, I have other questions to work out (such as whether a 3.21 will be too high to take an OD gear with 235/75/15s) since those same size tires and 3.07s were too much for the 4.0 inline the was in my wrangler below about 60 unless on dead flat ground or downhill but I'll consider those things later.......
 
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Just kicking ideas around with football on TV and watching it pour like hell outside on Xmas...
Charlie, I actually got the info I do have by digging through the 1st 17 pages of the " trans and rear end" over there. But nobody really specified "where" to grind... I always wondered why people like Lou from over there don't come here. I know Greg does....
 
I can hazard a guess about why some slant people don't come here. It's not as bad now as it was at one time, but have you noticed how the V-8 people don't take slanters seriously? People ask a legitimate question about a slant, and the "junk the slant, and install a V-8" answers that are posted. I mainly come here to do the opposite. To promote the slant. Hell, I pulled a 360 out, and installed a 170 slant. Us slanters are becoming fewer and fewer. The youngsters are not interested in them and us oldsters are dying off. I just ignore the stupid answers, and try to correct the wrong info that is posted from time to time.
 
Pisses me off almost as much as "dump the 318, you absolutely cannot run a 318/ no way no now".
My luck with 360s has had me do the opposite a couple of times over the years and dump 360s for 318s ...
But does anyone have an answer to what I asked in the original Post?
 
Here Here guys ! I guess I too am in the minority being a Slanter and a Teen fan.(Just some support)
Don, I have no knowledge on the grinding so I can't help with that.
I do know that Chrysler was still using that adapter at least till 1968.
A local guy bought a 68 D 100 that needed help getting it running and it had the adapter /6 to 727.
 
Slant guys...My 2nd car was a 67 fastback 225 slant six. Volaredon will probably know where this is. I bought it from a private owner next to the little bar north of The Homestead in Kankakee. There is a 2-story house there with separate apartments with an exterior staircase that goes to the 2nd floor. The car was sitting out front with a for sale sign $400.00 It was white with perfect small lug chrome reverse baby moons and raised white letter Firestones on it. I was disappointed it had a slant six, but it was nice, so I drove it home for a reduced price of $350. (this was in 1982 guys) Every stop sign I left on the way home I heard a bang under the hood. I made it home, popped the hood and pulled on the accelerator. That torquey little slant had broken the motor mount, and the valve cover was jumping up and hitting the frame on the bottom of the hood. I ran that engine as hard as I could, and it would not blow up! I held it in low full out throttle more times than I can count until it was screaming, and that engine held together. I had intended on putting a 318 I had in it, but it would not die. My best friend had wrecked a super nice 67 notch with a built 273 nitrous powered 4 gear so I sold him the car so he could fix the Formula S notch. He let me keep the baby moons and the slant. I sold the 6 and it ran so long I lost track of the car it went in. So... THERE IS MOST CERTAINLY NOTHING WRONG WITH A SLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Holidays
 
Remember going to shows and the Slick 50 magic oils had a running Slant Six without a oil pan ?
Sorry for getting off track with Don's question.
 
That's alright, lots of threads here, do. Hopefully someone will remember what I asked about, and know what has to be done.

I'm not sure which way I am going with this truck,
It's nice to have choices but the confusion those choices leave drive me crazy
 
jeff alder said:
Slant guys...My 2nd car was a 67 fastback 225 slant six. Volaredon will probably know where this is. I bought it from a private owner next to the little bar north of The Homestead in Kankakee. There is a 2-story house there with separate apartments with an exterior staircase that goes to the 2nd floor. The car was sitting out front with a for sale sign $400.00 It was white with perfect small lug chrome reverse baby moons and raised white letter Firestones on it. I was disappointed it had a slant six, but it was nice, so I drove it home for a reduced price of $350. (this was in 1982 guys) Every stop sign I left on the way home I heard a bang under the hood. I made it home, popped the hood and pulled on the accelerator. That torquey little slant had broken the motor mount, and the valve cover was jumping up and hitting the frame on the bottom of the hood. I ran that engine as hard as I could, and it would not blow up! I held it in low full out throttle more times than I can count until it was screaming, and that engine held together. I had intended on putting a 318 I had in it, but it would not die. My best friend had wrecked a super nice 67 notch with a built 273 nitrous powered 4 gear so I sold him the car so he could fix the Formula S notch. He let me keep the baby moons and the slant. I sold the 6 and it ran so long I lost track of the car it went in. So... THERE IS MOST CERTAINLY NOTHING WRONG WITH A SLANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy Holidays
Click to expand...
yup i know exactly where you mean, go right by there every morning on way to work....

but more along the lines of this thread... that engine that I picked up to get the adapter from.... I strapped it to my trailer, stood it upright (or at least as upright as a /6 is supposed to sit) and put the home made wood blocks where they were meant to go, strapped it to the deck of my trailer, got the battery out of my dead durango (dead, until I can get the parts for its 314k-mile 46RE tranny) set battery on trailer deck, connected the cables from starter and block, plus a jumper to the coil, splashed some gas into its Carter BBS, cleaned the points with emery cloth and contact cleaner and.... IT RUNS after having sat for I have no idea how long on a dirt floor of a barn...... I want to dig up a length of fuel line and dip it into a gas can and let it run for a few minutes instead of just as long as a splash of gas into the carb throat runs..... it has rad hoses, maybe rig up a radiator to stand up in front of it???? (forgot the screwdriver between the starter terminals to make the starter crank..... haha

But being this combo has a "rebuilders industry standard" #3257 Mopar starter (autozone sticker still on starter that came with it) I'm wondering if maybe there won't be anything needing to be ground out on this adapter? I remember others talking about some "direct drive starter" with a different tooth count on some models, maybe only those need whatever "ground out," to use this adapter on a /6 and an A500/518???? Were there different variations of the adapter?
From what I have read, it was used til '68/69 depending on who's talking. This crosses over the small/big crank pocket on a /6, and also the conversion between A/LA V8s.... did the V8s also have a small crank pocket? I've heard that no 727s did..... Ive heard early 273s did/didn't have a small crank pocket just like the /6 had.... don't know who to believe on that one.

This /6-727 has//// 3 freeze plug block so its an "early" 225.
cartridge oil filter
rebuildable fuel pump
il sending unit on side of block above oil pan rail instead of on the oil pump
has point dist., with the "oil cup" with spring loaded cap
front sump like Ive never seen on any Mopar engine
oil bath "bug catcher" air cleaner assy. attaches to carb by clamp similar to what a diesel turbo exhaust has..... (that I didnt get with this combo though I got the air cleaner)

trans... cable shift
brake drum/park brake on end of tail. including park brake cable still there
a flat flange bolted to drum, with a splined slip shaft yoke still attached by the U joint. reminds me of 70s motorhome applications.... not ball and trunnion.
a weird "loop" on top of tailshaft I have never seen before/ though I've heard the truck versions back then were hung from top? also has typical 727 flat flange for more common style of mount on bottom of tailshaft
a hole in top of bellhousing again like 70s van/motorhome trannys I have had, have had.
only the KD link sticking up thru trans case, since it is cable shift....
the only trans like this I have ever had my hands on, though I've seen more 727s over the years than I can recount.....

I may come back and post any numbers i can find off engine and trans to verify age..... if only for my curiosity.....
 
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Let's see if I can succeed in pix

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Only problem I see so far is that in that few seconds of running each time (had it running twice, 2nd time was longer, felt like I had it going for "almost a whole minute" that oil sending unit leaks like a sieve.
Haven't really pd attention I guess but of the other /6s I can remember ever messing with I don't remember another with sending unit mounted there, usually on the pump... But I have the dutra book, and I think that's where I seen it mentioned to drill and tap a port there for additional oil pressure gauge, etc before on engines that don't already have one there.
Spose that would be a good place to supply oil if you're wanting to add a turbo ... Just a thought.
 
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looks like the package i pulled from my 64 d100 , fuel mileage didn't change much , nut i up graded the re gears too . but i'm still running my 61 d200 everyday with it's /6 4spd

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Would love that adapter plate and crank/converter spacer for my 66 A100. Any interest in selling that setup?
 
you talkin to me?
I had to buy this whole engine and trans, just to get the adapter and crank spacer... (Not sensor... Damn phone)
It might be, once I decide which trans I want in this truck.
When I first got this A500, I had a wanted ad out for one, and I had a "hit" out of California, from someone that had one/ they wanted something like $200-250 and that was just the big plate, no crank spacer, plus shipping which as we all know has gotten stupid lately......
If I decide the 727 stays (which was my original thought) or I decide to put the 833 OD in and hang the clutch pedal, then I can/will sell the adapter..... but not until.
But if I go with the A500 I'm gonna need it.
 
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Chrysler did make Slant 6 727 later in the 70's.
Found one in a Dodge van at pick a part . Had to be a 72-76 ish year model.
Had no need for it so didn't get it. Unusual to see,thinking hey this is cool.
 
I have an 85 D150
Original/6, 727 equipped.
No adapter. Original trans still in the truck.
I replaced the engine, original one went to Michigan, is now in a 68 valiant... One of the regulars on the /6 forum had a /6 727 for sale a while back. . think it was Rick covalt.
They definitely made them for a while but not that common.....
But they never had an automatic OD trans while they also had the /6... For someone wanting to put an OD auto behind the/6 this adapter setup is needed.
I have heard rumblings of someone who made a run of aluminum aftermarket copies of the original cast iron adapter.... But never seen one.

I've got a question that comes up with stick bellhousings now and then. Would this need to be "indicated" to the block with offset dowel pins, etc?
 
So? not the adapter plate to the engine side?....
I don't know how I'd do the trans to the adapter side with no room to see the indicator within the bellhousings, with everything bolted up
I'm thinking I'd have to dismantle the trans and put the bare case to the adapter, as the trans pump and input shaft would be nothing but in the way. And then that would give the hole where the valve body now "isn't", and the spinning components out of the way as a window to access and watch the indicator?
 
volaredon said:
So? not the adapter plate to the engine side?....
I don't know how I'd do the trans to the adapter side with no room to see the indicator within the bellhousings, with everything bolted up
I'm thinking I'd have to dismantle the trans and put the bare case to the adapter, as the trans pump and input shaft would be nothing but in the way. And then that would give the hole where the valve body now "isn't", and the spinning components out of the way as a window to access and watch the indicator?
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Yes, it is done with an empty case..
I guess I should say THE empty case.
 
based on what i have seen for people trying to fit a hemi 6 to a 727 or 904 with the low rather than high starter. hemi 6 and slant 6 have starter in nominally the same place
small block trans necessary.

The actions for the hemi 6 case are as follows

For a hemi 6
move dowels (more on this later)
cut off the lower section of the drivers side ear of the engine case to clear the starter motor because it gets in the way when you try to fit it in the low position.
this this impacts a dowel or bolt hole in the block hence references to moving dowels
depending on age of block you may find that the ear is a solid casting or it has been subjected to weight saving update that has the rear of the ear hollowed out.
risk the thin bit with a new bolt/dowel or get it cast iron welded up

given that a slant bell and a hemi 6 bell follow much the same pattern apart from dowel and side bolt positioning. the bolts at the "top of the clock" are the same
i'd assume the back of the block follows a similar design with a ear sticking out on 1 side that allows a high starter mount
your TF auto trans expects a low starter and the ear is potentially too fat to allow that on the lower edge.

other option is to cut up an aluminium bell and tig weld the starter area into the 727 housing in the higher position and run an appropriate pinion on the starter, but that takes a bit more skill and dexterity with the tig machine of the type that costs $$$
easier to grind off a lump of "ear" and then i guess modify your headers around the low slung starter.

yet another option is to cut off the 727 bell and get a aftermarket one bolted on via the pump bolts and an adapter like they do with chevy auto transmissions

you may be able to pick up an australian Borgwarner 35 (auto) Hemi 6 bellhousing and modify it to fit the slant it would be an easy bolt-on to a circular adapter held to a cut down 727 by the pump bolts.

not having owned a slant this is all guess...
nobody came to help so these are just my thoughts on the matter

but i have owned a number of Mopar engines and can say with confidence that many things are much the same across similar motors.
Slant 6 and hemi 6 starter position is one of them.

Dave
 
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