63 Small Block Distributor / Firewall Clearance

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fzmax

fzmax

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Anyone drop a small block in a 63 Valiant or Dart and have an issue with the distributor hitting the firewall? I read somewhere the 63's firewalls were different near the wiper and this was revised for 64 so they could fit the 273 in them. Any pictures of either a 63 with a small block in it or even the area around the distributor in a 64 to 66 would be a big help. Thanks
 
Thanks. I think I have some work to do. Next time you're out there can you measure from the center of the distributor to each fenderwell so I can determine the offset side to side? The 63 firewall has a bulge for the wiper motor. I'm hoping I won't have to make mine flat, but there doesn't seem like there's a lot of room there.
 
So this is what I have to deal with. There are enough differences in the firewall that I can't tell where the distributor will end up looking at yours and mine. Could you measure how far from the firewall the cap is and how far from each fenderwell? Hopefully I can mod this one and I don't have to splice in the whole firewall. Thanks again

Engine_2.JPG
 
i can get a pic of the fire wall mod om my 63 tomorrow... bummer is you cant use the factory wipers
 
Thank you. Do you have a small block in it?

I hate to open that can of worms, but since I have to paint the area around the battery and master cylinder it won't be the end of the world. But finding the wiper parts for a 64 to 66 may be challenging.
 
fzmax said:
Thank you. Do you have a small block in it?

I hate to open that can of worms, but since I have to paint the area around the battery and master cylinder it won't be the end of the world. But finding the wiper parts for a 64 to 66 may be challenging.
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it did but is going back to a slant...
 
You've just discovered why the wiper mount and firewall were changed for '64: To make room for the V8 distributor.
 
I have a simple solution, put a big block in it...distributor in the front. You just won't be able to fit exhaust!
 
Probably should have went with a B motor, but this is just a temporary fix until the real motor is ready. Good thing I have too much time on my hands.
 
How about grafting in a piece of firewall from a '64 or newer A-Body and converting to the later style Wipers?

Or just knock the hump off and weld a flat plate there and install the wiper motor under the dash (like a 1930's/1940's Dodge/Plymouth car or truck)
 
That's likely what I'll have to do. I'm hoping that a little dimple will provide enough clearance so I won't have to rework the whole firewall. The goal is to make it look stock or something the factory would have done to make it work. Maybe an offset distributor?

I guess it'll have to wait until I get the engine sitting in there.
 
You could go distributor-less and use some kind of a cranksensor wheel (MSD)?? Don't know much about them. Cost factor my be a issue.
 
Darter6 said:
You could go distributor-less and use some kind of a cranksensor wheel (MSD)?? Don't know much about them. Cost factor my be a issue.
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Also requires the use of a Cam Position Sensor.

I researched it once (not alot, but enough to change my mind about it), because I've got a MSD DIS-4 Box collecting dust on the shelf and thought it'd be a great modification for my '74 Duster. Until I realized I needed both a Crank Sensor (Wheel) and a Cam Sensor (usually the distributor is reused as a cam sensor), along with 4 "Two Plug" coil packs and some other stuff.

So I boxed up the DIS-4, Tach adapters, and wiring and forgot about that project :D
 
I'm digging that offset distributor, just not the $500 price tag. This car will only have this engine in it for a year or two so I hate to get too deep into the money.

Moparkid, did you ever get a picture of your firewall? I'm very curious to see how yours was done.
 
See if someone will get you a measurement from front of rad support to firewall and from rad support to rear of dist.cap. on a V8 car.Another thought (it may not work) is the late model V8 dakotas had caps that the terminals were out the sides instead of the tops of the cap. I am curious as I got a 63 Valiant post (Red) too.
 
I'm hoping someone posts up with just that. Moparkid's 63 had a V8 so his firewall should tell us what we need to know.

BTW, I did but a distributor with that smaller cap and the male ends. I'll post up when I figure out what the deal is.
 
My V8 fit like a glove with no firewall modifications whatsoever, 5.7 Hemi......
 
I have 360 in my 63 dart and still run the stock wiper assembly. I just "massaged" the distributor area where needed and painted over it. not the best looking job but you can't really see it behind the distributor unless your really looking. The key to success is to make sure you remove the wiper motor before you start massaging it. I didn't and broke the mounting tabs on the motor.
 
If you took you time and are good with fabbing you might think of a piece of exhaust pipe as it comes in sizes up to 6 inches and would give you a half round if cut and welded in the current setup without deleting the wiper motor. That would look better than a dent.
 
63dartman said:
I have 360 in my 63 dart and still run the stock wiper assembly. I just "massaged" the distributor area where needed and painted over it.
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Got any pictures?

Tincup said:
My V8 fit like a glove with no firewall modifications whatsoever, 5.7 Hemi......
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I've seen it, that is badass!

chryslerfat said:
If you took you time and are good with fabbing you might think of a piece of exhaust pipe as it comes in sizes up to 6 inches and would give you a half round if cut and welded in the current setup without deleting the wiper motor. That would look better than a dent.
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Sounds like the interference is small so it may not be a big deal at all. If I anyone with a 63 to 66 with a V8 could measure from the distributor to each fenderwell and let me know which part of the distributor you measured to I can figure out where it will sit once it's in the car and see how much I'll have to modify.
 
Darter6 said:
You could go distributor-less and use some kind of a cranksensor wheel (MSD)?? Don't know much about them. Cost factor my be a issue.
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Ditto. That would be my approach. Indeed, I plan that eventually for my 65 SB even though mine has the V-8 firewall (small indentation at distributor). I just want to run distributor-less since a spark jumping a gap is old-fashioned electronics and allows phasing issues and noise.

74Dusted is incorrect about requiring a cam sensor. You can just run "wasted spark" mode, as many production cars do, like my 96 2.4L and 02 3.8L, indeed most engines you see with a coil pack are such, until the newer "coil on plug" (COP) designs. However, I think you still need something in the distributor hole as a cover and to hold the intermediate shaft down (drives oil pump). Perhaps a Magnum distributor would fit since I recall they are much shorter. Indeed, I vaguely recall an after-market design for that purpose (also a cam sensor?).

Re parts and cost, read the Megasquirt site about the Ford EDIS system, which many people adapt. A guy on ebay sells custom toothed wheels. I had him cut a center hole to fit my crank pulley, ~$40. I secured it with a tapped hole in the pulley and setscrew (at missing tooth to balance the weight). I drilled a thru hole in the alum AC pulley (add-on AC). Currently, I have the Ford VR pickup installed, which barely fit under my alum water pump. But I also designed a bracket for the shorter Mopar Hall-effect pickup (same as my 3.8L). The Ford EDIS box controls the Ford coil-packs (or any others, even COP), firing at 10 deg BTDC as a base (limp-home mode). You need another controller to command the advance, which I haven't worked out. Many people use Megasquirt for that. EDIS parts are cheap at the junkyard or on ebay. Even better is the LS engine coils, but those require a smarter spark controller. I am not going whole hog yet, just positioning myself as I build up my engine.
 

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I didnt see you mention that the Ford EDIS system does have a crank and a cam sensor. I am not sure if it would work out with just a crank sensor.
 
chryslerfat,

Below is my understanding. Add a "I think" caveat to every statement.

Many cars with a coil-pack do have a cam sensor. I know my 2.4L does since I changed it, and recall my 3.8L does. However, the cam sensor is not used in spark control. It is only used to time the fuel injectors to the valve openings, which slightly improves emissions at low rpm. That is termed "sequential multi-port fuel injection", as opposed to "batch-fire mode". Each spark plug still fires once per revolution. The extra spark is on the exhaust stroke, and is hardly needed, thus the term "wasted spark". It actually does slightly improve emissions by helping burn left-over fuel, I have read. If not true, then somebody explain why my 2.4L coil-pack connector doesn't have enough pins to control 4 spark plugs individually. I recall it is 3 pins (+12V, coil1, coil2). If you look at it, it is obvious that two plugs share each coil. Not to say there aren't coil-packs somewhere with one coil per plug. If so, one might term "Coil Off Plug". You can find just about any flavor of engine control somewhere. The mega-squirt site has much info.
 
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