65 Barracuda quick brake question

[Blue62Val]

G'day all,

so.....I've read a few old posts about master cylinders and boosters for early Barracudas.
Seems general consensus is that for V8 drum brake cars, if there's a problem with the booster, just get rid of it and run a drum brake dual master cylinder (or disc upgrade).

The booster on my Formula S has packed it in (vacuum canister is fine)......should I simply get a replacement (dual) and does it simply bolt straight on ...... and do I just use a rod that currently exists with the brackets I have from the current booster ?
And, stopping should be fine ??? Car is standard.....actually still building it. Would happily replace booster with another but it's a bit hard to understand what's what (I'm in Australia.....not many wrecked cars to source bits from here )

Hope this makes sense. I just want the car to stop.

Peter

 

[LO23M8B]

One of the very best upgrades for this would be a disk brake upgrade if budget allows. I'm a bit bigger guy and I never had issues stopping these cars without power brakes. If you drive really hard the drums should go as you will heat the drums and create hot spots on them. Those old 4 piston brakes will stop on a dime and give you 9 cents change. And yes no matter what you do upgrade to a dual master cylinder. I love those 65 Cuda's I've got one in my barn I bought in 88 and stored it in 89.

 

[WV64Signet]

Hey Peter

Sounds like you are NOT trying to "restore" the car to original. So removing the booster, you should be able to mount the single pot master cylinder directly.

Looks like the push rod differs between power and manual (different part numbers)

I'll toss some pictures in here to be sure we're talking about the correct bits.

Subject to the thoughts of the brain trust.

You could go with and aftermarket or salvaged 2-pot drum-drum master and correct bore, adjustable push rod.

 

[LO23M8B]

These is a great site. Great pics!

 

[Professor Fate]

I know this would be a pain in the butt for you, being in Australia- but I would seriously consider sending the booster to be rebuilt at one of these two places:
https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/
Home - Harmon Classic Brakes (these guys also sell parts/kits in case you'd prefer to do it yourself)
Both places have stellar reputations and stand behind their work 100%.
By rebuilding your original unit, you know everything will fit and work as it was designed to, with no hunting down of elusive parts and bits & pieces to swap something else in.
One thing I would change (unless you're going for completely original, doesn't sound like you are) is going to a dual-reservoir master cylinder, which is a bolt-on swap except for the necessary addition of a rear proportioning valve and the attendant line/dist. block mods. Make sure you source a N. American master (either drum or disc, depending on your system) and not an Aussie one, since the fittings/outlets would be on opposite sides and could present fitment issues. Also resist the temptation to use the later aluminum 2-bolt master, since it requires an adapter plate, which is incompatible with the factory booster. Stick with something like a '67 or later drum/drum or disc/drum factory replacement master.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Blue62Val]

I know this would be a pain in the butt for you, being in Australia- but I would seriously consider sending the booster to be rebuilt at one of these two places:
https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/
Home - Harmon Classic Brakes (these guys also sell parts/kits in case you'd prefer to do it yourself)
Both places have stellar reputations and stand behind their work 100%.
By rebuilding your original unit, you know everything will fit and work as it was designed to, with no hunting down of elusive parts and bits & pieces to swap something else in.
One thing I would change (unless you're going for completely original, doesn't sound like you are) is going to a dual-reservoir master cylinder, which is a bolt-on swap except for the necessary addition of a rear proportioning valve and the attendant line/dist. block mods. Make sure you source a N. American master (either drum or disc, depending on your system) and not an Aussie one, since the fittings/outlets would be on opposite sides and could present fitment issues. Also resist the temptation to use the later aluminum 2-bolt master, since it requires an adapter plate, which is incompatible with the factory booster. Stick with something like a '67 or later drum/drum or disc/drum factory replacement master.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Great advice….thanks.
Ideally I would like it rebuilt, but it’s something I have to give some thought……it’s simply insane with regards to currency conversion and even worse postage costs back and forth. But I’ll still look into it.
Ideally I’d love to go original, but being down here….. I’m happy to simply make it as authentic as possible.

 

[Blue62Val]

Hey Peter

Sounds like you are NOT trying to "restore" the car to original. So removing the booster, you should be able to mount the single pot master cylinder directly.

Looks like the push rod differs between power and manual (different part numbers)

I'll toss some pictures in here to be sure we're talking about the correct bits.

Subject to the thoughts of the brain trust.

You could go with and aftermarket or salvaged 2-pot drum-drum master and correct bore, adjustable push rod.

View attachment 1716483717

View attachment 1716483718

View attachment 1716483719

View attachment 1716483720

View attachment 1716483724

View attachment 1716483725

View attachment 1716483726

Hey Peter

Sounds like you are NOT trying to "restore" the car to original. So removing the booster, you should be able to mount the single pot master cylinder directly.

Looks like the push rod differs between power and manual (different part numbers)

I'll toss some pictures in here to be sure we're talking about the correct bits.

Hey Peter

Sounds like you are NOT trying to "restore" the car to original. So removing the booster, you should be able to mount the single pot master cylinder directly.

Looks like the push rod differs between power and manual (different part numbers)

I'll toss some pictures in here to be sure we're talking about the correct bits.

Subject to the thoughts of the brain trust.

You could go with and aftermarket or salvaged 2-pot drum-drum master and correct bore, adjustable push rod.

View attachment 1716483717

View attachment 1716483718

View attachment 1716483719

View attachment 1716483720

View attachment 1716483724

View attachment 1716483725

View attachment 1716483726

These pictures are really helpful, mate - thanks.

It’s pretty hard going full on original living down here.
I’ll go as authentic as is reasonable.

 

[WV64Signet]

These pictures are really helpful, mate - thanks.

It’s pretty hard going full on original living down here.
I’ll go as authentic as is reasonable

Let me know if you need any part numbers and the like. I'll grab pictures from those pages in the parts book.

Good luck with the fix

 

[Bewy]

You can try this bloke, Peter he is in Sydney, does booster recond. Ph: 0400 726 778.

There is also a place in SA: [08] 7070 1065

 

[Blue62Val]

I know this would be a pain in the butt for you, being in Australia- but I would seriously consider sending the booster to be rebuilt at one of these two places:
https://www.powerbrakebooster.com/
Home - Harmon Classic Brakes (these guys also sell parts/kits in case you'd prefer to do it yourself)
Both places have stellar reputations and stand behind their work 100%.
By rebuilding your original unit, you know everything will fit and work as it was designed to, with no hunting down of elusive parts and bits & pieces to swap something else in.
One thing I would change (unless you're going for completely original, doesn't sound like you are) is going to a dual-reservoir master cylinder, which is a bolt-on swap except for the necessary addition of a rear proportioning valve and the attendant line/dist. block mods. Make sure you source a N. American master (either drum or disc, depending on your system) and not an Aussie one, since the fittings/outlets would be on opposite sides and could present fitment issues. Also resist the temptation to use the later aluminum 2-bolt master, since it requires an adapter plate, which is incompatible with the factory booster. Stick with something like a '67 or later drum/drum or disc/drum factory replacement master.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Thanks very much for the detailed reply….. made lots of sense.

 

[Blue62Val]

So...... I was in the shed and I actually found a set of disc bits and pieces. Two stub axles, 2 solid rotors and two calipers.

They would have come from an Aussie Valiant slant, but I'm wondering if they'd be suitable for the Barracuda. I've attached a pic of the caliper because I couldn't get to the other bits ( it's night time here ). It's a PBR caliper (with new pads no less), but only single piston.

Would these be better than the 10 inch drums ? Look......I know discs are always preferable, but is single pot enough or do V8 need dual pistons ?
And I'm assuming the bottom ball joint is the same ( I can check ) - just the stub axles are different ? I've always thought Aussie and U.S "A" bodies were pretty much the same mechanically.

Peter

 

[Dave999]

if you have aussie disc stubs
they have the same taper as your US upper arm ball joint, so the top joint is the same. no problem there.
and they have the same taper as the lower arm joint so the bottom balljoint is the same in that respect.
only difference between LHD and RHD lower balljoints is the angle of the lever arm.. and you can cater for that by adjusting the length of the track rod sleeve if you ever needed to

those caliper match the australian solid rotor. the mounting holes are 3.5 inch apart so they will bolt up to both US and Australian disk stub axles

and they fit inside 14 inch wheels

the inner bearing on the rotors you found will fit australian stub axles and mid 60s to i think 1973 US stub axles.

A VE VF VG VH 4 bolt disc master and pushrod should bolt up to a 4 bolt bulkhead mounting.....
the pipes may be on the wrong side in which case the US cast iron version of the same thing would work it has a different top cover. Basically you need something disc from about 67-73 with the right mounting as far as i can tell.
you will probably need its manual brake pushrod and little rubber retainer as well.

with a brake bias added you will be able to get the fronts on hard before the back locks up.
manual brakes will never be detached retina territory but perfectly good....

you also have potential to swap to any of the aussie brakes that came later if you want

VG vented rotors and pin slider Kelsey calipers
VH ever so slightly bigger vented rotor and the longer bracket and the same calipers
VJ claw slider GIRLOCKs using the slightly bigger VH VJ vented rotor. this caliper used on holdens as well. buy parts from holden specialist for 1/3rd off the price

i get lost with the stuff from 1978-82 it may fit it may not i think they went to 15 inch wheels

Dave

 

[Dave999]

that pbr has 2 pistons
they are perfectly effective
all of the VC and VE cars that came to the UK were top end Regal/VIP trim had them...most were 273 or 318 cars

with a small bore master cylinder they will work you need one with less than 1 inch bore.... to get decent peddle feel.... if the bore of the master cylinder is too large there is little peddle travel and you brakes feel like the pads are made of wood...

 

[Bewy]

The VF & earlier calipers used the PBR 2 piston cal. These were bolted to the spindle, didn't float. Any runout in the rotor & you felt it through the pedal.
The VG was the first year of the floating caliper. It was also PBR, single piston, 2.38" diam.

 

[Dave999]

same bolt 3.5 inch pattern as toyota hilux jag xj and austin princess
if you had an urge to want to go custom
All are a bit of work and you have, in some cases, an imperial to metric conversion to do...i.e custom felxi hoses and machining to make things 1mm too big... fit.
mid 90s 4-runner hilux swap is the easiest to do in oz you had loads of landcruiser and hilux vehicles in the 80s and 90s, The smaller 4 piston sumitomo caliper 2 wheel drive hilux pickup truck, is a cast iron thing that looks like the aluminium wilwood caliper in the mopar kits that wilwood do. Very similar look and low profile to the 2 piston VE calipers you have

i just stuck with rebuilt standard

dave