65 dart electrical problem

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Slantsix64

Slantsix64

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hey guys i got a problem in my electrical system and trying to find some help and info as of why this is occurring.

#1 for some reason my coil connectors on the positive of the coil gets really hot and starts to smoke up when the cars running after 10 or 15 minutes. coil itself is damn hot!

#2 then the back of my alternator gauge the positive cable (red cable) starts smoking a bit my car battery is being charged and the alternator is doing its job

#3 another thing that i have noticed the alternator gauge is not very sensitive like in my other mopar's i have had where you can see a drop or add in the charging system on the 65 dart its more like its delayed and slow responding when i give it gas or turn on my lights if that makes sense let me know what you guys think
 
YIKES

Do you think the wiring has been modified?

Does it still have a stock coil and "points" (breaker points) ignition?

(should have a ceramic coil / ballast resistor somewhere on the firewall)

FIRST thing I'd do is "stop driving it" much until it's fixed

Second thing is to take a couple of voltage checks


With it running "at a good fast idle" post three voltage readings for us

1....Reading at coil + (all readings "to ground")

2....Reading at battery posts

3....Reading from alternator output post to ground

Ammeter not being sensitive could be a couple of things..........someone might have done a "similar to" ammeter bypass, or......the ammeter could be dirty / gummy / mechanically damaged internally
 
67Dart273 said:
YIKES

Do you think the wiring has been modified?

Does it still have a stock coil and "points" (breaker points) ignition?

(should have a ceramic coil / ballast resistor somewhere on the firewall)

FIRST thing I'd do is "stop driving it" much until it's fixed

Second thing is to take a couple of voltage checks


With it running "at a good fast idle" post three voltage readings for us

1....Reading at coil + (all readings "to ground")

2....Reading at battery posts

3....Reading from alternator output post to ground

Ammeter not being sensitive could be a couple of things..........someone might have done a "similar to" ammeter bypass, or......the ammeter could be dirty / gummy / mechanically damaged internally
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply !
1.yes it has points and a condenser i changed them both new.
2.the wiring looks very good i opened it up to check for burns or shorting but did not find any.
3. i shall get back to you on the voltage readings but now my fuel gauge and temp just go all the way up and stay there when the car is on before they actually worked and read correctly
 
67Dart273 said:
YIKES

Do you think the wiring has been modified?

Does it still have a stock coil and "points" (breaker points) ignition?

(should have a ceramic coil / ballast resistor somewhere on the firewall)

FIRST thing I'd do is "stop driving it" much until it's fixed

Second thing is to take a couple of voltage checks


With it running "at a good fast idle" post three voltage readings for us

1....Reading at coil + (all readings "to ground")

2....Reading at battery posts

3....Reading from alternator output post to ground

Ammeter not being sensitive could be a couple of things..........someone might have done a "similar to" ammeter bypass, or......the ammeter could be dirty / gummy / mechanically damaged internally
Click to expand...

thanks for the reply !
1.yes it has points and a condenser i changed them both new.
2.the wiring looks very good i opened it up to check for burns or shorting but did not find any.
3. i shall get back to you on the voltage readings but now my fuel gauge and temp just go all the way up and stay there when the car is on before they actually worked and read correctly
 
You've got a problem somewhere. If this panel has a gauge voltage limiter plugged into the back I suggest you remove it before the gauges die. Who knows, you might discover the root of the problems there.
I don't recall which/what panel it was but one of the many designs had a board mounting screw underneath that limiter. Factory placed what amounts to a scrap of paper between to insulate/isolate. Why it got so dry and brittle it crumbled and fell out after only 50 years ? LOL Good luck
 
65 dart should have the instrument voltage regulator in the fuel gauge. Disabled mine and went external. Still adjusting. Gauges maxed out. Mounted in plastic though to prevent short.

Going to electronic voltage regulator (firewall) but haven't installed yet. Regulator may be putting out to much (going bad).
 

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The diagram shows the ballast resistor in an electronic ignition, but highlights the ignition wire ~14 volts on one side (top) and bottom side of resistor feeding the + side of the coil ~8- 10 v. Startup bypasses the resistor.

I understand you have conventional points. Ballast resistor function in diagram is the same (limits current to coil).
 

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67Dart273 said:
He evidently has breaker points, not electronic
Click to expand...
thanks for the replys i have took apart the wire harness from the engine bay and under the dash everything looks great iam starting to think that it is the actual alternator gauge its self has gone bad i have a new alternator and voltage regulator ballest resister coil etc the charging system is working. im still waiting on my friend to bring over his volt meter to check voltage. until then im going to connect a cable directly from the alternator (black) and one directly from the started relay (red) and connect them to the back of my amp gauge and see if it will work if not and it starts smoking i will just buy an after market one and see how it reads the voltage and go from there. thanks for all the replys!
 
No, please make some checks first. PLEASE find the problem BEFORE you start digging around making a bunch of changes and throwing a bunch of money at this.

Please do the simple checks I outlined above.

THERE IS a reason stuff is getting hot. We can step you through some checks and find the problem

It might BE a bad regulaor, or alternator, or it might be a wiring problem somewhere.

FIRST order of business is the checks I outlined earlier.
 
67Dart273 said:
No, please make some checks first. PLEASE find the problem BEFORE you start digging around making a bunch of changes and throwing a bunch of money at this.

Please do the simple checks I outlined above.

THERE IS a reason stuff is getting hot. We can step you through some checks and find the problem

It might BE a bad regulaor, or alternator, or it might be a wiring problem somewhere.

FIRST order of business is the checks I outlined earlier.
Click to expand...

will do thanks
 
The red and black wire to the back of the ammeter feed through the bulkhead connector. Due to a little corrosion, the firewall bulkhead connection for these two wires may overheat and melt.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=289534

My 65 Dart does not have the middle connectors, just two screw in connectors.
 

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Clroads said:
The red and black wire to the back of the ammeter feed through the bulkhead connector. Due to a little corrosion, the firewall bulkhead connection for these two wires may overheat and melt.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=289534

My 65 Dart does not have the middle connectors, just two screw in connectors.
Click to expand...
yes so does mine is the fuseable link connected and screwed to the right side of the harness (driverside if you are looking from the front of the engine bay )and the other connector is screwed on the left side.?
 
Ditto, 1963 & 1965 cars do not have the feared "melted bulkhead" issue. Indeed, I put a 1965 bulkhead in my 1964 to get that better design.

The best way to bypass the dash ammeter is to run a thick wire (~8 awg) from the alternator's big stud to the big stud on the starter relay (or to BATT+).

Unlikely the dash ammeter itself is a problem, but the connection studs can get corroded, so clean well and coat w/ silicone grease.

The coil over-heating is a different problem. Coil+ might be getting full BATT+ voltage (~13.5 V running). It should get ~8 V when running via a drop thru the ceramic ballast resistor. While cranking, the ballast is bypassed to apply full voltage. Rather than fool with the coil and points a lot, a newer HEI ignition is much simpler and better (no ballast). If a 273, you can buy a new distributor w/ HEI for $45 (ebay). If a slant, you must configure your own via a later electronic distributor (~1971+). I did that from junkyard Chevy parts (~$1), or you can buy the kit from TrailBeast here (~$199).
 
Clroads said:
[

Also, the start switch/ relay hanging up May feed the full ignition voltage to the + coil essentially bypassing the ballast?

...<20$
Click to expand...

Not unless it's actually the ign switch that's hanging up
 
In diagram A, the fusible link should be from the starter relay to the red side of the ammeter. If the two middle bulkhead wires were reversed at the bulkhead, then the gauge sensing may be reversed as well as possible current path when running? This may possibly reverse current through ballast, giving 12 volt to coil?

Need readings

Anyway, fusible link to the red side (as marked under dash/ back of amp gauge).
 
Clroads said:
In diagram A, the fusible link should be from the starter relay to the red side of the ammeter. If the two middle bulkhead wires were reversed at the bulkhead, then the gauge sensing may be reversed as well as possible current path when running? This may possibly reverse current through ballast, giving 12 volt to coil?

Need readings

Anyway, fusible link to the red side (as marked under dash/ back of amp gauge).
Click to expand...

thanks you everyone for the help and replys i got my volt meter showed my my charging system was at 18 #-o volts!! switched out my voltage regulator (chinese Crap) problem fixed thanks AGAIN!!!!
 
Great. I hope you used a new electronic Vreg. The original mechanical on-off relay design was always problematic, though all they could do until ~1971. Look at the FSM for the constant tweaks needed to the original box to keep it charging correctly.
 
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