I'm thinking Firm Feel or whoever it is that makes K frame reinforments, sway bar tabs for lower arms, and much more, just might have the idler arm clip. If they don't, maybe they should. Mfgrs of the 67 idler arms wouldn't be pleased with this product made available. LOL
'67 Dart with '68 idler arm?
- Thread starter maurice_meyer
- Start date
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maurice_meyer
'67 Dodge Dart GT Convert
67dart273, thanks a million for the id on the part! Glad to know it's definitely a '68 idler arm.
I would love to take it all apart and change the K member out to make it 100% legit but this is a daily driver car. It's my only car. I take the kids to school in the thing. So I can't have it out for weeks at a time and especially not during the holidays.
As far as what's going on with the thing, I've had this car since 1989 so I've seen all the recent work even though I haven't done it all myself. It was pretty much stock when I got it so I think I had a pretty clean start. I've kept it as stock as possible except for a few mods - Pertronix ignition, solid state regulators (charging system and dashboard) and drum to disc brake conversion. Regarding the front end, it goes like this: original 1967 power steering, converted to front disc brakes. Nothing else. The Pitman arm is a 1967 power steering arm. This '68 idler arm has been on the car for possibly 10 years. I really can't recall the last time it was serviced. Probably when the disc brakes were swapped in which was before I had kids so that's more like 12 years. So even though the '68 arm is looking kind of hokey on there with the single tab, it's worked fine for a long time and finally gave out.
So, for now I need to just swap the arm and go. At this point I think either the '68 or '67 arm will work. I'm betting the measurements are the same. I am wondering if the mount hole was expanded so with that doubt in mind, and the fact that the '67 arm is twice as expensive, I think I'll go with the '68 replacement. And, with the '68 arm on there, I'm sure I can still get some fabrication done to add the second tab without taking the entire thing off the car.
Hey, thanks again for all the help. Mobileparts, I'll give you a call to see about purchasing the arm.
By the way, here's the patient in my driveway one day last year when for some reason all these white cars were out. Now if that doesn't remind you why you drive a Mopar I don't know what will! I'll put a little story with more pictures in the welcome forum.
I would love to take it all apart and change the K member out to make it 100% legit but this is a daily driver car. It's my only car. I take the kids to school in the thing. So I can't have it out for weeks at a time and especially not during the holidays.
As far as what's going on with the thing, I've had this car since 1989 so I've seen all the recent work even though I haven't done it all myself. It was pretty much stock when I got it so I think I had a pretty clean start. I've kept it as stock as possible except for a few mods - Pertronix ignition, solid state regulators (charging system and dashboard) and drum to disc brake conversion. Regarding the front end, it goes like this: original 1967 power steering, converted to front disc brakes. Nothing else. The Pitman arm is a 1967 power steering arm. This '68 idler arm has been on the car for possibly 10 years. I really can't recall the last time it was serviced. Probably when the disc brakes were swapped in which was before I had kids so that's more like 12 years. So even though the '68 arm is looking kind of hokey on there with the single tab, it's worked fine for a long time and finally gave out.
So, for now I need to just swap the arm and go. At this point I think either the '68 or '67 arm will work. I'm betting the measurements are the same. I am wondering if the mount hole was expanded so with that doubt in mind, and the fact that the '67 arm is twice as expensive, I think I'll go with the '68 replacement. And, with the '68 arm on there, I'm sure I can still get some fabrication done to add the second tab without taking the entire thing off the car.
Hey, thanks again for all the help. Mobileparts, I'll give you a call to see about purchasing the arm.
By the way, here's the patient in my driveway one day last year when for some reason all these white cars were out. Now if that doesn't remind you why you drive a Mopar I don't know what will! I'll put a little story with more pictures in the welcome forum.
Here's a photo (hopefully) of two stud type arms that were used on my '67 B'cuda. I am not sure which is correct - my guess is that one may really be for the early A- kframes.
Length of both is the same as yours. It's the drop and angle that's a bit different between them.
Also here's a link to the firmfeel modification, but other than the photos for ID. it doesn't look like it will help you.
http://www.firmfeel.com/a_body_mopar_idler_arm_bearing_kit_1.html
I can't recall if the '68 up uses a larger diameter bolt than the threads on the morse taper stud, but I doubt it. You'ld probably be fine with a '67 arm. Easy enough to measure before hand.
It will be very interesting if you find the '67 placement is the same as the '68 up. My recollection is that the '67 bracket sits lower than the top tab of a '68 up, but maybe that's wrong.
In any event, whatever change you make in drop will effect toe. So, plan on adjusting that when your done. Tape measure on the tires or strings on each side will get you pretty good if you want to DIY.
Length of both is the same as yours. It's the drop and angle that's a bit different between them.
Also here's a link to the firmfeel modification, but other than the photos for ID. it doesn't look like it will help you.
http://www.firmfeel.com/a_body_mopar_idler_arm_bearing_kit_1.html
I can't recall if the '68 up uses a larger diameter bolt than the threads on the morse taper stud, but I doubt it. You'ld probably be fine with a '67 arm. Easy enough to measure before hand.
It will be very interesting if you find the '67 placement is the same as the '68 up. My recollection is that the '67 bracket sits lower than the top tab of a '68 up, but maybe that's wrong.
In any event, whatever change you make in drop will effect toe. So, plan on adjusting that when your done. Tape measure on the tires or strings on each side will get you pretty good if you want to DIY.
The 67 tab is right in the middle of where a 68 arm would ride so optimal solution is remove that and add the proper 2 ear clip. Most would simply leave the 68 up arm attached below the 67 tab and add a second tab below the arm though. This doesn't cause any issues. A little ground clearance difference and angle of center link is all.
mobileparts
Well-Known Member
Maurice -- I will PM you also -- this is Craig / Mobile Parts --- I received your phone
call -- but your phone number got garbled -- I tried listening 4 times -- but I couldn't
make it out -- after the 715 --- ----- I couldn't make it out.....
Call again..... thanxxxxx, Craig
call -- but your phone number got garbled -- I tried listening 4 times -- but I couldn't
make it out -- after the 715 --- ----- I couldn't make it out.....
Call again..... thanxxxxx, Craig
mobileparts
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the call -- but I can not call you back ---- after the 715 -- your message
got garbled, I could not make out the rest of the phone number....
I listened to it four times, but could not make it out....
I just tried to PM you, but it didn't take.....
Call me again, please, Craig -- 516 - 485 - 1935... New York...
got garbled, I could not make out the rest of the phone number....
I listened to it four times, but could not make it out....
I just tried to PM you, but it didn't take.....
Call me again, please, Craig -- 516 - 485 - 1935... New York...
Ah. Thanks. So I thought. Here's the issue. Moving the idler (or pitman) position will cause the toe to change as the right (or left) wheel goes up and down. This because the tie rod's arc doesn't follow the control arm's. There's a Direct Connection bulletin on how to check and adjust (by shimming or filing at the attachment point). Reprinted in the MP Chassis an Oval Track books too. on-line as scan here
Whether it is no biggy or something of great importance depends on use and driver/owner. Obviously I drove my '67 with different arm drops. Wasn't happy about having the wrong one, but at the time couldn't do much about it.
maurice_meyer
'67 Dodge Dart GT Convert
Craig, I'm sorry we didn't connect. Dang technology. I had wanted to buy the arm from you and appreciate the help from everyone but when I didn't hear back I kind of rushed and bought it while trying to knock off some Christmas stuff and trying to find a 50 gallon short water heater to replace my now leaking one. Car and house decided to gang up on me at Christmas time. Again, I really do appreciate the help.
I'm curious what the actual dimensions are on the '67 arm and if this one I've ordered comes with different dimensions than the one that's on there I'll really be baffled. I'm expecting it to be an identical replacement but we know how that goes!
Yeah, I wonder how this setup affects tire wear. I haven't noticed anything over the years I've had the '68 arm on there but I didn't know it was there so I wasn't really paying attention either. Now that I don't actually commute full time on it time goes by a lot faster than miles.
Lowering the inner tie rod height should not greatly effect wear for normal driving IF toe was set to specifcations. While driving straight ahead on a flat surface, the toe setting will stay correct.
More likely you would notice the effect of lowering the inner tie rod in the handling of the car when the passenger side suspension is compressing or extending. (DC Tech Diagram here) Let's take a couple of examples:
^ The car is cresting a hill and the nose continues straight while the wheels follow the road.
As the fender and wheel move away from each other, the tie-rod pushes the back of the wheel further out, and the front of the passenger tire inward. The car might feel like it wants to drift left. This would also occur any time the nose got light, such as caused by lift at very high speeds, or launching at a drag strip on sticky tires.
< Car is turning Left at decent speed like a highway ramp. The outside suspension is compressing. The lowered tie rod end pulls the back of the wheel inward, creating toe-out on that wheel. So the most loaded tire will follow an greater arc than it would have if the steering linkage was perfect. The car will drift more to the outside of the turn. (Chrysler MTSC with diagram of arcs at bottom)
Depending on how you use the car, how tolerant you are to handling quirks, and so forth, you may or may not notice or care.
mobileparts
Well-Known Member
Maurice -- the message you left with your phone # got garbled....
All I got was 415 --- -----.
I tried to PM you also but it didn't take....
Call me again -- Craig -- New York.....
All I got was 415 --- -----.
I tried to PM you also but it didn't take....
Call me again -- Craig -- New York.....
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