68 Dart 440 Daily Driver Build Thoughts

[fratzog lover]

Maybe something like a Lunati Voodoo 702lk would be what youre looking for. 475 int .494 ex. 220 and 226 @.050, it fits the bill for a strong but streetable ride. 3.55 or under for the gears, most definitely. Youre gonna have plenty of torque but upgrade the converter.

 

[txstang84]

hey guys thanks for all the great advice. i think i am going to be going down this path:

318 block
10:1 +/- compression
aluminum heads
msd atomic efi
.488 thumper cam
headers etc...

the /6 sounds cool but looks like pain in the a$$. i want to spend more time driving then tweaking. cars going to be used for street and track days/autocross. going to post my 440 stuff and current drag stuff on car to fund this path. plus i have a 318 engine kicking around and a 904 that came with it

Hmmm 10:1 318, eh? Wanna see this one...

 

[Jim Lusk]

A 4" crank in the 'teen block would liven it up a bit...

 

[dukeboy440]

Not to be mean. I'm glad you're exploring your options but for your sake, don't buy anything engine wise until you make up your mind. Its extremely difficult to get your money back if you change your mind. I was in the same boat as you are at first. Just got to go with your gut. Also, while its nice to ask opinions of all of us, in the end its your money so build it to suit you. Just a friendly tip.

 

[CraftyFast]

Not to be mean. I'm glad you're exploring your options but for your sake, don't buy anything engine wise until you make up your mind. Its extremely difficult to get your money back if you change your mind. I was in the same boat as you are at first. Just got to go with your gut. Also, while its nice to ask opinions of all of us, in the end its your money so build it to suit you. Just a friendly tip.

yeah absolutely, i appreciate everyone's advice, tips etc. this is my first build/car i have had the opportunity to get down to the nuts and bolts so i really have no idea what i am doing, just things i can read online here and there. i know what i would like in the end, just getting there is the fun part? haha

 

[CraftyFast]

after much debate and research this is what i have concluded:

Bore = 4.38”
Stroke = 3.75”
Head vol. = 84cc
Piston vol. = -7cc, dish
Deck clearance = 0.006”
Head gasket: Fel-Pro 1009
Gasket = 0.039”
Gasket bore: 4.41”
Compression Ratio = 10.05:1
Displacement = 452” / 7.4L
Cam: Comp Cams 23-224-4 274/296 .488/.491, 3 bolt
Torque converter: B&M Tork Master 2500 stall
Rear end: 8.75”, sure grip, drum brakes, 3.55:1 gears, 28" or so tire, 10" wide on 8"x15"
Axles: Moser or Strange
Driveshaft: custom length, up to 600 horsepower or maybe stock if rated for power
Carb: Quickfuel HR-780-VS, elec choke, vac sec
Spacer: 1” open phenolic
Intake: Dual plane Edelbrock Performer RPM
Cylinder Head: Edelbrock Performer RPM
Headers: Schumacher Tri-Y, chrome
Engine mount: Mancini Racing engine plate
Cooling: Quad core, dual fan rad, mechanical aluminum pump

with all this specs I put them into desktop-dyno and it gave me about 460 horse and about 440 torque at 5500 rpm. I am now going to continue build this short block with the rest of the parts I have and hopefully get my car to the shop within the next 2 weeks to start tearing it down and rebuilding it

 

[furyus2]

IDK what kind of budget you have but one big help for a car thats going to get driven alot is an overdrive trans. I put an A-518 behind my 440 and I like it alot. It has a .69 O/D ratio so you can run enough gear like 3.91s or so and still cruise on the highway. I did a photo gallery of the swap if you want to look at whats involved. The A-518 swap in pretty involved but it's a lot less expensive than what the aftermarket has to offer. The A-518 came in both lockup and non lockup.

I am very interested in this swap. Do you have a thread I can read? I like the idea of keeping it all Mopar. How strong is the transmission? Will it hold up behind a 440?

 

[CraftyFast]

I am very interested in this swap. Do you have a thread I can read? I like the idea of keeping it all Mopar. How strong is the transmission? Will it hold up behind a 440?

this is where i plan to dump all my updates and pics and such of the build up and all that fun stuff. this is my first time doing anything like this, i work in construction so building homes i can do with my eyes closed but this has always been something i wanted to do. i hope the transmission holds up! haha! it'll be the 727 with a shift kit, auto/manual valve body from somewhere haven't gotten that far down the road. i have one that came out of a winnibago. all the tech knowledge base on here is crazy good so i am really building this by reading other build and articles. whats the worst that could happen?!

 

[CraftyFast]

just did some work on the intake. ground down and smoothed out the center dividing section. there was a bit of a ridge going over the vertical line (technical description i know, if you had a straight line ruler placed on the inside wall of the divider, there was a part that went over that, filling in the opening) of the center section on bot sides and i just cleaned it up and made it a bit sharper. you can can see the original casting line at the very top i used that as a guide for how much to take off and to keep straight to it. i also made the walls around the flange where the carb will sit more vertical (more tech description). i could feel a bit of an over vertical ridge so i took that out as well. blasted with air for a few mins. i'll gasket match the runners when i get the gaskets and the heads as well. looking at the pics (last one) i might go back in there on the left side passage and open it up to match the right if there is enough material to remove

 

[273]

I think you'll find any N/A engine with at certain performance level is gonna get similar mileage
within reason. Whether it be 318, 390, 440

 

[CraftyFast]

I think you'll find any N/A engine with at certain performance level is gonna get similar mileage
within reason. Whether it be 318, 390, 440

yeah i would agree with you on that. i was reading that smaller engines, within a certain degree, spin faster to make the same amount power as big lazy ones, so over the course of time the amount of air/fuel being used in the cylinders is about that same

 

[CraftyFast]

gasket matched and die ground the intake, good for at least 80-100 horsepower

 

[CraftyFast]

fuel regulator all cleaned up and ready to go, it came with an electric Holley fuel pump but i am going to run it with the a Carter mechanical fuel pump off of the block. the less electrics on this thing the better. It's going to have a MSD 6A ignition box and a MSD Blaster 2 coil. going to be running a auto/manual shifter, here's the tach.

 

[Doosterfy]

I am very interested in this swap. Do you have a thread I can read? I like the idea of keeping it all Mopar. How strong is the transmission? Will it hold up behind a 440?

I did not do a thread on it. I did do a photo gallery. There is a thread by Gdonovan on a similar swap. He did an A-500 swap into a small block Duster. The A-518 is plenty strong enough for a 440. Its basically a 727 with an overdrive unit on the back of it. The A-518 only came with the small block bell housing so you will either need an adaptor or a JW Ultra bell bell housing for a 727. Look at my picture gallery and you'll see what's involved.

 

[RustyRatRod]

All this in an A body? Gosh. I wouldda just blueprinted a 375 HP 440 and been done with it. Talk about reliable, pump gas fun on the cheap.

 

[CraftyFast]

All this in an A body? Gosh. I wouldda just blueprinted a 375 HP 440 and been done with it. Talk about reliable, pump gas fun on the cheap.

yeah i know there are a millions ways i could have done this a lot easier and probably a lot easier on the wallet as well but i did this to see if i could pull it off. always wanted to build a car from the ground up. found a great opportunity for an engine and car so i pulled the trigger on it.

 

[CraftyFast]

installed the oil pump. was good until i stripped one of the bolts, now i have to helicoil it

 

[CraftyFast]

installed a new distributor bushing, the old one one some how got mangled, used those 2 bolts and a hammer to gentle tap it out. worked like a charm

 

[CraftyFast]

going to make some carb spacers. this is 5/8" baltic birch. have a cnc but i am just going to do it by hand. i'm thinking of using 3 of them (1 7/8" total) and coat them with vinyl ester resin to seal them after i glue/clamp them togather

 

[moper]

going to make some carb spacers. this is 5/8" baltic birch. have a cnc but i am just going to do it by hand. i'm thinking of using 3 of them (1 7/8" total) and coat them with vinyl ester resin to seal them after i glue/clamp them togather

Just an opinion but I think you're way overthinking this. 2" of wooden spacer? Knife edging the plenum divider? I get the intake gasket matching but if you think these tricks all add up to 80-100hp you're reading too many Hot Rods and talking to cruise night "racers". The knife edging can really hurt the cylinder to cylinder distribution. So it's wasting time and effort, and a little $$ on everything but the gasket matching.
Also -the pistons are not dished. They are flat tops with 4 valve reliefs. Not a big deal but so you're up on the lingo.
It looks good but if it were me I'd drop the compression .5 point (have the chambers enlarged slightly) and look to a smaller cam. You'll be happier overall with smaller and simple with the NO2 then with go fast stuff that hurts the cruising ability.

 

[CraftyFast]

yeah i know they don't add up to monster amounts of power, maybe 2 on a sunny day i was just messing around a bit like those +5hp stickers all over imports. the spacers i want to make just for thermal insulation from the engine. just trying to make the engine as efficient as possible, kind of paradoxical with a 440 but hey. i have alot of material here in my shop so why not. as for the knife edging the intake plenum, i didn't grind past the original dividing cast so the geometry between the 2 halves is still the same just the walls were made a bit nicer, there was a bit of bulging i guess which went past the vertical wall, i highly doubt me doing all the did anything but it i had a few minuets to play around with it. thanks for the lingo update, i will try to make sure to properly describe what i'm talking about in the future. as for the compression, if i run what i am planning, 84cc heads with a .04 gasket i will at 10.04:1, 84cc heads with a .05 gasket 9.82:1, with 88cc head and a .04 gasket 9.7:1 and a 88cc head with a .05 gasket will be at 9.5:1. i haven't purchased the heads or gaskets yet. the cam i am going to be going with is going to be in the .488 lift area standard 1.5 rockers. not a big fan of NO2, i know its fast on the cheap but for this build i want it to be as much mechanical without power adder as i can.

 

[CraftyFast]

rough cut the spacers out of 5/8" baltic, glued them together and going to run them around my belt sander when dried

 

[cletus]

:happy1:

I like it so far. I like the idea of a .488 lift cam, if it were my build I would stick with something around the 235-240 degree duration (at .05 lift) range, and 112 degree lobe separation to keep it streetable. For mine i used a MP cam with 108 degree lobe separation and it has been kind of a pain trying to get it tuned decent.

With an aftermarket performance cam, intake, heads, 10:1 compression, etc. this thing will make gobs of power for an A body.

Although unconventional, the grinding of the intake and the addition of custom carb spacers shouldn't hurt anything, you might gain a couple hp from lowering the temp of the intake charge like you said. I think the spacers with the added plenum volume will move the hp curve up to a higher rpm range, but I may be mistaken on that.

 

[fratzog lover]

Someone had a really good post on a 440 low compression motorhome block. Kept doing simple upgrades 1 at a time. It made crazy HP and TQ for 8.0 compression or there abouts. Anyway, the 10.04 can be backed down a little, and you will still have plenty of power for street gas. And thats part of being "streetable" isnt it? Good luck with the build and have fun.

 

[CraftyFast]

finished sanding down the spacer and ready for epoxy or resin coating, used a hole saw bit and wrapped some sand paper around it on the drill press to clean up the inside radious