69 383 Water Pump Housing Casting Defect?

[Bewy]

I had a veeeeeery unusual o'heating problem with my 440 many years ago. Under certain coinditions, usually a high rpm romp through the gears, temp would climb until it boiled. If driven at moderate speeds, no problem. The problem was the flexible, corrugated, top I had used. When I replaced that hose with a plain sided hose, never had the problem again.....

I suspect the corrugated hose was aerating the coolant....& air bubbles are poor heat conductors.

 

[OldSoul_02]

The engine did have stop leak put in it to fix an exhaust bolt leak on the passenger side. I am now pretty confident that the problem is a blockage issue now though. I have never seen this much junk in the radiator before, I would guess the new pump stirred a lot of crap up. There’s a whole mountain of sand in the radiator, and I took the radiator out and reverse flushed it three or four days ago, so this is all from just a few miles of driving.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I had a veeeeeery unusual o'heating problem with my 440 many years ago. Under certain coinditions, usually a high rpm romp through the gears, temp would climb until it boiled. If driven at moderate speeds, no problem. The problem was the flexible, corrugated, top I had used. When I replaced that hose with a plain sided hose, never had the problem again.....

I suspect the corrugated hose was aerating the coolant....& air bubbles are poor heat conductors.

Those hoses look like infected dog butt, too.

 

[Dana67Dart]

I'm thinking you found your issue.

Time to remove the side drain plugs, with the rad out maybe even remove the front cover and start hosing out the system.

 

[Bewy]

Flushing THAT rad will not remove all the crap. Needs to go a rad shop. They will remove the tanks & pass rods through the tubes to properly clear the debris.

To prevent this happening again, put a removable filter in the top hose.

 

[OldSoul_02]

Flushing THAT rad will not remove all the crap. Needs to go a rad shop. They will remove the tanks & pass rods through the tubes to properly clear the debris.

To prevent this happening again, put a removable filter in the top hose.

For sure, I am sure the cores are well clogged. We have a Glenn Ray radiator on the way by the beginning of September, so that should fix that at least. Filter would be a good idea to protect that investment. I think I am having problems burping the system, since we drained about 3.75 gallons of coolant out, and we have only been able to fit 3 gallons in. Still having cooling problems, but not as bad. I am hoping it is because there is still that air in the system somewhere

 

[Dana67Dart]

I'm assuming you have flushed and flushed and flushed the block and rad? an easy way to be sure MOST air is out of the system is to fill it on a slope nose up and fill through a radiator hose about a foot higher than the block. then have the other rad hose about the same level. When coolant comes out of the other hose you SHOULD be full. and coolant should be coming out the rad cap opening too

 

[OldSoul_02]

I'm assuming you have flushed and flushed and flushed the block and rad? an easy way to be sure MOST air is out of the system is to fill it on a slope nose up and fill through a radiator hose about a foot higher than the block. then have the other rad hose about the same level. When coolant comes out of the other hose you SHOULD be full. and coolant should be coming out the rad cap opening too

We flushed it very thoroughly. Flushed with the drain plugs out for around 20 mins with the engine off, back flushing the heater core occasionally, and flushed the engine while running for around 5-10 minutes still with the plugs out. Whole driveway was littered with debris that we got out. We flushed anything loose out of the radiator too, obviously can’t get the stuck stuff out. I actually read a post you posted about filling through the heater hoses to force any air out, we were planning on trying that tonight.

 

[Desoto291hemi]

I always drill a small hole in my thermostat to relieve any trapped air that might be under it
It’s always worked well for me

Tommy

 

["Dart67"]

Situation
We stopped for gas, and the temp climbed up to 210 while waiting to get out of the parking lot which seemed normal enough, but after we got cruising again it would not come down, it was almost like the gauge had just stopped working. So we made it to a traffic light and while stopped the temperature started to climb again to around 220, then when we started driving again it stopped climbing but the gauge just didnt move back down. This repeated for a few lights on the way home until we got to almost 240! Cruising at 55 the temp would just lock in place, but it would climb when stopped. It's acting like the gauge only moves one way, and that's up.

Do You have the hood to radiator core support seal in place?
With it heating up when you stop, that is what I would check...

The impossible to solve overheating problem

Zactly ! And I "agreed" with MOPAROFFICIAL because his common sense is the same as mine. That OK with you furyus2 ? ? ? Wow. Sounds like you have some aggression issues. Since the object is to help the OP, and you feel one of my comments was incorrect, it would have been polite of you to post...

www.forabodiesonly.com

 

[OldSoul_02]

Do You have the hood to radiator core support seal in place?
With it heating up when you stop, that is what I would check...

http://[URL][URL]https://www.forabo...heating-problem.410570/page-4#post-1972129357

[/URL][/URL]

There is no hood to radiator seal on my car… that is a good point. I always assumed it made some difference but not enough to cause my issues. I’ll get one of those on order to try it. I would still expect the engine to cool while at cruising speed though. Would the hood seal impact that a lot?

Edit read through the rest of the linked post and looks like you answered it there, steady speed overheat as well.

 

[440 Mike]

The engine did have stop leak put in it to fix an exhaust bolt leak on the passenger side. I am now pretty confident that the problem is a blockage issue now though. I have never seen this much junk in the radiator before, I would guess the new pump stirred a lot of crap up. There’s a whole mountain of sand in the radiator, and I took the radiator out and reverse flushed it three or four days ago, so this is all from just a few miles of driving. View attachment 1716437699

That stop leak is some nasty stuff. I spent hours flushing out a 440 bare block on an engine stand with all of the core plugs removed. Had to use hooked wires and roll the block at different angles to dig all of the debris out. It will be tough to get this block clean while still in the car. I'm sure that there are pockets/passages in the block that are plugged solid.

 

[OldSoul_02]

That stop leak is some nasty stuff. I spent hours flushing out a 440 bare block on an engine stand with all of the core plugs removed. Had to use hooked wires and roll the block at different angles to dig all of the debris out. It will be tough to get this block clean while still in the car. I'm sure that there are pockets/passages in the block that are plugged solid.

Well I hope that it isn’t too bad. Was hoping to not do a block tear down since it has already been 3 years getting this car road worthy. I still don’t understand why the temperature drops 20 degrees in around 10 seconds when turning the engine off and on again. Its a mechanical gauge, so no reason why it should do that unless the thermometer is reading a drop

 

[440 Mike]

Well I hope that it isn’t too bad. Was hoping to not do a block tear down since it has already been 3 years getting this car road worthy. I still don’t understand why the temperature drops 20 degrees in around 10 seconds when turning the engine off and on again. Its a mechanical gauge, so no reason why it should do that unless the thermometer is reading a drop

With that amount of sediment I'll bet that there are hot spots in the block/heads that aren't getting good coolant flow

 

[OldSoul_02]

Sorry for the long pause, have been very busy this last week. Last night I drained the radiator and filled the system from the heater core hose until it reached the heater hose outlet on the pump housing then plugged it and continued filling until the coolant came up through the radiator cores. Finally I put the core hose back on the housing and sealed everything up. I wasn’t very hopeful since it seemed that the coolant level was the same, but we took the car for a 20 minute drive last night and the temp stayed under control, going 205 F at most. It would drop to around 195 when cruising. This morning I noticed the coolant level had dropped quite a bit and put about a third of a gallon into the radiator. Took the car for a 15-20 drive and the temp never went above 165F…. Which was exciting and concerning. It was 65F outside, and there is a 180F Mr Gasket Hugh flow thermostat in the car now. Hood seal is on order too.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Took the car for a 15-20 drive and the temp never went above 165F…. Which was exciting and concerning. It was 65F outside, and there is a 180F Mr Gasket Hugh flow thermostat in the car now

Junk might be blocking the t stat open.

IMHO.


At this point I would not put coolant in it. Just water, that way you can flush the system over and over with out "flushing" money down the drain in lost coolant.

Now I'm not recommending this but just had a thought....

What if you filled the system with Evaporust?

And let it circulate till the coolant was at about 150 deg then shut it off, rinse and repete. For a few days. 1 gallon of Evaporust is about 30.00 at harbor freight. Only need 2 gallons or so? 5 gallons bucket from Amazon is a bit over 100.00

I would not run it as coolant though it's mostly water. But the super high heat of the engine might destroy its rust removal properties.

You would still need to flush the system a bunch after. I have seen lots of sediment in my rust removal attempts of parts but it tends to be fine.


Plus you could use it on other things after it will not attack aluminum or pot metal.

Well looks like they beat me to it

THERMOCURE Cooling System Rust Remover & Flush | CRC

 

[oldkimmer]

How about using vinegar. It’s cheap and does a good job. The rust floats to the top. Kim

 

[Dana67Dart]

How about using vinegar. It’s cheap and does a good job. The rust floats to the top. Kim

vinegar is an acid and will attach the pot metal parts faster than the rust. Not saying it can't be done just the Ciliation method is safe on other metals

 

[Dana67Dart]

Get a GoPro and strap it under the battery tray, go for a drive and record the lower rad hose.

Sunday I'm headed an hour away to a car show at a cemetery ( Fairhaven Cemetery in Denver, and its free) it is likely to be hot out. I have rigged up my 30.00 Ebay special Go Pro under the hood and will record as long as the battery holds out. I did a 27 minute test run and this is the results. You will hear the engine rev at times as I was doing things that I thought might help collapse the lower hose like putting it in 2nd gear at 50 MPH. Never a sign of collapse My only reason for suspecting mine has this issue is at steady state driving the temp will fluctuate (The proof will be on Sunday)

Water Hose Collapse · Friday, Aug 15 ð¸

 

[OldSoul_02]

Well we got some new results, seems like the last limiting factor is probably the debris lodged in the radiator cores. It’s about 70F out and we drive the car for around 40 min tonight. We got the core support seal in place. Car slowly heated up to 210, then we purposely let it warm up to around 230 to see if it would shed the heat when cruising. It was able to maintain around 225, and highest we saw was 240. It was always able to cool itself back down to around 230, but wouldn’t go below that. It was very very slow to cool down to 230 though. This to me seems like a cooling capacity problem, which could be caused by restricted flow rate due to debris. We took the engine to over 3500 rpm as well, and it didn’t result in any odd behavior, so seems like not cavitation this time. I’ll drain the radiator a bit tomorrow to inspect the fins. Does anyone have a good recommendation for inline coolant filters? We have flushed this system so many times, and we have used some strong flush chemicals before, but still get crap. I’d like to protect the Glenn Ray as much as possible.

 

[Bewy]

Don't know how many times we have to tell you: a core that looks like post #27 has to go the rad shop to be rodded out. No amount of flushing will remove ALL the debris. That junk is forced into the tubes by pressure, the pump operating at high rpms, & flushing pressure will NOT remove it. I had a filter in the upper hose to collect debris. At high rpms, the water pressure acting against a piece of debris punched a hole in the filter material; that is the sort of pressure involved. Nothing to do with cavitation that you keep on about.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Not a recommendation but an article I found

An Inline Coolant Filter Will Catch What You Don’t See – Beyond the Checkered Flag

 

[OldSoul_02]

Don't know how many times we have to tell you: a core that looks like post #27 has to go the rad shop to be rodded out. No amount of flushing will remove ALL the debris. That junk is forced into the tubes by pressure, the pump operating at high rpms, & flushing pressure will NOT remove it. I had a filter in the upper hose to collect debris. At high rpms, the water pressure acting against a piece of debris punched a hole in the filter material; that is the sort of pressure involved. Nothing to do with cavitation that you keep on about.

Don’t worry, I know this radiator is shot without a re-core, I believe you guys that the flow is heavily restricted. The filter would be for the new radiator coming in the next month, since it seems like there is always new sediment showing up no matter how much we flush the system. My main goal at this point is to fix as many of the other issues besides the clogged cores before the new rad goes in. There seemed to be pretty solid evidence of cavitation in the first post I made on this thread, wanted to make sure a new pump housing wasn’t needed too. The hood seal seemed to help with the cooling, so mainly things like that.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Keep at it.

If you have a wrecking yard nearby.

Many newer cars have a tank that is a pressure vessel and has a radiator cap on it as well.

Typically they are clear and You might be able to find one with the correct tube OD.

It might be able to be used as a sediment trap, where the coolant flowing through it drops the sediment out before it goes into the rad