71 Scamp Dangerous To Drive

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robertfrancis71

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Los Angeles
Hi Folks,
First time post here. I’ve had this Scamp since 2016. I had the steering box rebuilt. New tie rods, new pitman arm, new idler arm, the works. The car is dangerous on the freeway- frankly it’s dangerous all around town. If you drive over a groove on the freeway it pulls into it, and while rebuilding the steering box has helped some, the steering still has a lot of play. It wasn’t always this way. I took the car with me to Nashville for a year to make a record and that did her in. Didn’t have a garage and the humidity and rain rusted the frame. Now I’m in Los Angeles (don’t judge, wish I wasn’t) and I’m about to take her in to the shop. From these photos, do you think I need new leaf springs + shackles? Will this solve my problems on the freeway? Do I need to add sway bars? Rack and pinion? Please help. Everything in this damn city is 10 times as expensive as anywhere else so I really gotta know what I’m doing before I see my mechanic. Thank you all in advance. Robert

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Is it power steering? Are you 100% sure everything up front is tight. Hows the ball joints etc.
 
Pay careful attention to the lower control arm pivot pins where they go into the K frame. Very common failure point.
 
Welcome to FABO and so cal. I would suggest you ask around a bit in your area and find a reputable alignment shop through word of mouth. Have them take a look at it. They can do a shake test on the front end and find the stuff that needs attention. That would be a starting point.
 
What kind of tires? Bias ply are notorious for that. If you have radials make sure to use the scosh chart for alignment..
 
Great lookin car on top! Got to get into that bottom side with a bunch of elbow grease and slow that rust! What is your flavor of music? Whats the name of your album?
 
I would add tie rod ends to the list of things to check. Also, check the idler arm through bolt — many of the replacement idler arms seem to leave a lot of vertical play, and need to be shimmed with washers.
 
Double check the steering box that it's adjusted correctly. Was the coupler rebuilt?
 
Welcome!

You do NOT need a rack and pinion.

You do not need new leaf springs.

What you do need to do is thoroughly inspect your front suspension, K-frame and chassis. The steering box mounts on the K frame have been known for poor factory welding and cracks, which can allow the steering box to move back and forth. The LCA pivot tubes have also been known to break out of the K, which allows the LCA to wobble around.

Unfortunately, if the rust on your rear frame rails is any indication, you also need to inspect your front frame rails, especially in the area where your upper control arms mount. Dirt likes to collect there and rust is pretty common in that area, which can allow the UCA's to move around in ways they should not.

If everything passes the structural test, a proper alignment for radials is a must. Looks like you have BFG T/A's, which means you should be running alignment numbers like this, NOT the factory published numbers which are for bias plies.
alignment-specifications-jpg-jpg.jpg


But let me go back the the structural part. Your rear frame rails need to be repaired, and possibly your rockers. This is very structural damage that appears to have already been poorly repaired in some areas. It wouldn't take much for the leaf springs mounts or shackle hangers to fail.
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mvh said:
I would add tie rod ends to the list of things to check. Also, check the idler arm through bolt — many of the replacement idler arms seem to leave a lot of vertical play, and need to be shimmed with washers.
Click to expand...
Thank you- I will check on this
 
72bluNblu said:
Welcome!

You do NOT need a rack and pinion.

You do not need new leaf springs.

What you do need to do is thoroughly inspect your front suspension, K-frame and chassis. The steering box mounts on the K frame have been known for poor factory welding and cracks, which can allow the steering box to move back and forth. The LCA pivot tubes have also been known to break out of the K, which allows the LCA to wobble around.

Unfortunately, if the rust on your rear frame rails is any indication, you also need to inspect your front frame rails, especially in the area where your upper control arms mount. Dirt likes to collect there and rust is pretty common in that area, which can allow the UCA's to move around in ways they should not.

If everything passes the structural test, a proper alignment for radials is a must. Looks like you have BFG T/A's, which means you should be running alignment numbers like this, NOT the factory published numbers which are for bias plies.
View attachment 1715983514

But let me go back the the structural part. Your rear frame rails need to be repaired, and possibly your rockers. This is very structural damage that appears to have already been poorly repaired in some areas. It wouldn't take much for the leaf springs mounts or shackle hangers to fail.
View attachment 1715983505

View attachment 1715983504
Click to expand...

Thanks so much. I’ll check the pivot tubes and welding. I did have the Scamp aligned after rebuilding the steering box by a supposed “reputable” old school alignment guy. What would be the best performing tire in your opinion? I was even considering going to 17x8 5x4 wheels and a modern tire because I’m desperate. Lastly, what does repairing the rear frame rails/ rockers entail? Cutting out the rust and patching? Or pulling the whole car apart?
 
clementine said:
Great lookin car on top! Got to get into that bottom side with a bunch of elbow grease and slow that rust! What is your flavor of music? Whats the name of your album?
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Thanks Clementine. Im no one special - it’s Robert Francis music on Spotify/ Apple or You Tube
 
robertfrancis71 said:
Thanks so much. I’ll check the pivot tubes and welding. I did have the Scamp aligned after rebuilding the steering box by a supposed “reputable” old school alignment guy. What would be the best performing tire in your opinion? I was even considering going to 17x8 5x4 wheels and a modern tire because I’m desperate. Lastly, what does repairing the rear frame rails/ rockers entail? Cutting out the rust and patching? Or pulling the whole car apart?
Click to expand...

Do you have the alignment numbers? Just because someone is old school doesn't mean you got a good alignment.

Best performing tire depends on what you're doing with it, but your current tires are not likely to be causing your current problem. You should be able to track straight down the road and handle decently with BFG T/A's if they're in good condition. If you want a corner carver they're gonna fall short, but again, I really doubt the tires are your current issue.

I can't see the other side of the rockers so I'm just going by what the pinch weld looks like. But the rear rail where the outrigger and shackle mount are needs to be replaced. Same for the whole section where the front spring mount is. Obviously I only have the pictures you posted, there's a whole lot of frame rail in between those two points. If the damage it limited to just the areas shown in the pictures, you could probably section out the rear frame rail out at the back. The area where the front spring mount is could be problematic, again, it's hard to tell how much rust is there but that giant hole is not good. You could remove the front spring mount, cut back to solid metal (if there is any) and patch that section and then reattach the spring mount. And that could be done without pulling the whole car apart, although you'd have to drop the fuel tank, rear axle, remove the rear seat and pull the carpet back at the least.

With rust there's always more than what you see, and honestly having sectioned and patched and having replaced entire frame rails it's often easier to replace the whole rail if extensive patching is needed, since the whole rail is spot welded in and large patches will take a bunch of welding. But replacing the whole rail takes a lot more tear down.

I'll get a better picture of the shackle area, because yours has been replaced by what looks to be a chunk of square tube. But the front spring mount should look like this...
IMG_4079.jpeg
 
72bluNblu said:
Do you have the alignment numbers? Just because someone is old school doesn't mean you got a good alignment.

Best performing tire depends on what you're doing with it, but your current tires are not likely to be causing your current problem. You should be able to track straight down the road and handle decently with BFG T/A's if they're in good condition. If you want a corner carver they're gonna fall short, but again, I really doubt the tires are your current issue.

I can't see the other side of the rockers so I'm just going by what the pinch weld looks like. But the rear rail where the outrigger and shackle mount are needs to be replaced. Same for the whole section where the front spring mount is. Obviously I only have the pictures you posted, there's a whole lot of frame rail in between those two points. If the damage it limited to just the areas shown in the pictures, you could probably section out the rear frame rail out at the back. The area where the front spring mount is could be problematic, again, it's hard to tell how much rust is there but that giant hole is not good. You could remove the front spring mount, cut back to solid metal (if there is any) and patch that section and then reattach the spring mount. And that could be done without pulling the whole car apart, although you'd have to drop the fuel tank, rear axle, remove the rear seat and pull the carpet back at the least.

With rust there's always more than what you see, and honestly having sectioned and patched and having replaced entire frame rails it's often easier to replace the whole rail if extensive patching is needed, since the whole rail is spot welded in and large patches will take a bunch of welding. But replacing the whole rail takes a lot more tear down.

I'll get a better picture of the shackle area, because yours has been replaced by what looks to be a chunk of square tube. But the front spring mount should look like this...
View attachment 1715983547
Click to expand...
Thank you again for the advice. I’ll report back soon.
 
Here's a picture of what the rear spring hanger area and outrigger should look like...

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vs. yours
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Imagine having those frame rails sand blasted. Imagine what would be left. That car needs frame rails. Whether that's your problem or not, who knows, but until you get the frame rails repaired......and possibly what they attach to as well, that car will never be right.
 
Here's probably the best advice you will get ! IF YOU have to have your mechanic fix everything on your car, you better get out if this hobby now !
 
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