71 Twister with 340 4-spd, Bent front frame rails

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BJardin

BJardin

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Hi, I am new to the forum.
I recently bought a 71 Duster Twister, on Ebay. It was converted from a 318 3-spd manual, to a 340 4-spd. It's a really cool car, and has plenty of small issues. However, after doing some investigating into why the body panels don't fit properly, I discovered the front frame rails are bent. I have an excellent body/frame guy, who says the best way to fix it, is to replace the front frame rails. He said he could put it on the frame machine, but it would take much longer than replacing them. Does anyone know where I can get some frame rails? Does anybody make aftermarket replacements?

Thanks,
Brian
 

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BJardin said:
Hi, I am new to the forum.
I recently bought a 71 Duster Twister, on Ebay. It was converted from a 318 3-spd manual, to a 340 4-spd. It's a really cool car, and has plenty of small issues. However, after doing some investigating into why the body panels don't fit properly, I discovered the front frame rails are bent. I have an excellent body/frame guy, who says the best way to fix it, is to replace the front frame rails. He said he could put it on the frame machine, but it would take much longer than replacing them. Does anyone know where I can get some frame rails? Does anybody make aftermarket replacements?

Thanks,
Brian
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I don't know about aftermarket ones, but I think your best bet would be to find a parts car and have them cut out and weld them in. What year range of duster were the rails the same?

I have a 75 duster that I am parting out. If the frame rails are the same I could cut them out for you.
 
It would be easier to replace them than to try to straighten them since they're just spot welded to the car. I would check that the rest of the car is straight though, because if the unibody is tweaked just welding on new frame rails won't solve the problem.

A-body front frame rails aren't currently reproduced. But, they're all the same from '67 all the way up to '76. And they're the same across all body styles- Dart, Duster, Demon, Scamp, Valiant, and Barracuda. Just need an A-body parts car.
 
72bluNblu said:
It would be easier to replace them than to try to straighten them since they're just spot welded to the car. I would check that the rest of the car is straight though, because if the unibody is tweaked just welding on new frame rails won't solve the problem.

A-body front frame rails aren't currently reproduced. But, they're all the same from '67 all the way up to '76. And they're the same across all body styles- Dart, Duster, Demon, Scamp, Valiant, and Barracuda. Just need an A-body parts car.
Click to expand...

There ya go. If you find that the rest of the car is ok and you need the rails, let me know and we can work it out.
 
Are the rails going to be sectioned or completely replaced?

I couldn't fathom it being easier to replace both rails than pull them straight.

The rails changed in 74+ area when using the shock style bumper. I have a passenger rail from a 71-72 car if you are looking.
 
no they aren't all the same. I know the bolt holes for front bumper braces moved.
I'm not sure what other differences you might discover. Hope this helps
 
there are a couple of guys that constantly have quality used parts on this board--- if all that is wrong with yours is the front portion in the picture-- I would think replacing that portion would be much easier than taking out the whole rail, that is quite a chore & would require numerous labor hours for the complete replacement, Lawrence
 
Does your frame / body guy realize that an A body Chrysler product is a unibody? That frame rail is welded in to the floor, inner fender, rad support etc. It is a large undertaking to replace it, and it should probably go onto a frame straightener after changing the rail to check it out dimensionally.

Just wondering, perhaps is is thinking it is a bolt in stub frame like a Nova?

If the damage is only forward of the lower control arm mounts I don't see why you couldn't section in a new piece.

What body panels are you having difficulty aligning?
 
From the doors back, everything lines up. However, the entire front end can't be lined up. Fenders, aprons, hood, grille, etc.
My body guy has a frame machine and does a lot of this type of work. He is going to disassemble the front end, cut out the bent sections of the frame rails (from the very front, to after the shock mounts.
 
RedFish said:
no they aren't all the same. I know the bolt holes for front bumper braces moved.
I'm not sure what other differences you might discover. Hope this helps
Click to expand...

Yes, the bolt holes for the bumper brackets moved on the 75/76 cars. If you're capable of swapping the frame rails, this is an easily surmountable problem.

There are a few minor holes/brackets that moved over the entire run. The dimensions of the rails themselves the same, the suspension mounting points are the same, the attachment points to the body are the same. The only reason to limit yourself to a specific year or year range would be if you're planning a concourse restoration. Even then, the differences are minor enough to be dealt with.

As far as sectioning the rails vs replacing them- I know it seems like sectioning them might be easier, but if you have to go back past the suspension mounting points it really isn't. The rails are just spot welded to the rest of the car- the floor, the inner fenders, the torsion bar cross member, radiator support, etc. That is a lot of spot welds, but all of those structures also do a great job of locating the frame rail in the correct spot. And they're just spot welds.

The problem with sectioning it that you still have to maintain all of the geometry. And, you may actually have to put down quite a bit more weld, so you can run the risk of warping the rails. Keep in mind the frame rails are not really all that thick, just a step up from sheet metal really. It also depends on where your doing the section, because the frame rails are not just hollow boxes. There is internal bracing and multiple layers depending on where your section extends, and not all of it will be easy to get to because of overlap with some of those other structures.

If the section is small enough, ie, it's just the stubs ahead of the suspension mounts, then sectioning would be easier. If the suspension mounting points are involved, it's easier to locate the entire rail to keep the geometry right. It's also easier to spot the sections, so if resale is a concern I would swap the rails. From the pictures you posted, it's pretty obvious the rails have had work done already, and it looks like the suspension is involved.
 
BJardin said:
From the doors back, everything lines up. However, the entire front end can't be lined up. Fenders, aprons, hood, grille, etc.
My body guy has a frame machine and does a lot of this type of work. He is going to disassemble the front end, cut out the bent sections of the frame rails (from the very front, to after the shock mounts.
Click to expand...

If it's the entire front end, I would remove the whole front clip. You can't depend on any of those structures to be straight. Your best bet might be to find a complete donor car and just remove the front clip as a whole from the shell. That way the whole structure remains intact, and you just have to locate the new clip on your current shell. Otherwise, I would start from the frame rails and work up. Everything will have to be laid out and located. If your body guy has a frame machine, he has the tools to take care of it.
 
Will frame rails from a 73 duster or 73 dart fit, my 71 duster? I have two local sources for front frames rails. Are either, or both of these a perfect fit for my 71 duster?

Thanks,
B
 
68383GTS said:
I think you need a new frame Guy...
Click to expand...

I agree....I would seek a second opinion. the front rails are NOT perfectly straight brand new.

plus...it would be easier (my opinion) to staighten frame rails than remove / replace. I spent a whole day lining up panels....it is not a simple task...especially for frame guys.

IF the frame rails were bent....you should be able to see sheet metal bent....do you see any deflection on the inner fender panels. Is there signs of collision damage?

good luck.
Denny
 
HemiDenny said:
I agree....I would seek a second opinion. the front rails are NOT perfectly straight brand new.

plus...it would be easier (my opinion) to staighten frame rails than remove / replace. I spent a whole day lining up panels....it is not a simple task...especially for frame guys.

IF the frame rails were bent....you should be able to see sheet metal bent....do you see any deflection on the inner fender panels. Is there signs of collision damage?

good luck.
Denny
Click to expand...

He's already mentioned that quite a few parts in the front end of his car don't line up properly. And from the picture he posted, it appears as if the rail is not only bent, but that someone tried to repair it previously.

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1968FormulaS340 said:
I do this for a living. Put it on a rack and be done with it the same day.
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Wow! So in a day you're going to pull the frame straight on the rack and replace all the damaged metal in the frame?
 
72bluNblu said:
He's already mentioned that quite a few parts in the front end of his car don't line up properly. And from the picture he posted, it appears as if the rail is not only bent, but that someone tried to repair it previously.

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Wow! So in a day you're going to pull the frame straight on the rack and replace all the damaged metal in the frame?
Click to expand...

Yes. I'm that awesome.
 
I did not or could not tell the frame had been repaired from the picture.....maybe it has. what is underneath the goop / bondo /undercoating I see in the picture.

What exactly does not line up?....these cars have tons of adjustment.

My Duster was never in a wreck or has bent frame rails. It takes experience, patience, and time (4 hours) to get the panels aligned......and I still needed a slight slice to get it to to my standards.

like anything......second opinion required.
 
d55dave said:
Is that front washer on backwards on the strut rod? Pretty hard to tell the extent of damage from one picture.....just sayin
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That is how it is supposed to be installed. I thought the same thing when I bought my new bushing kit but it is stamped into the washer to turn it that way, cupped side outward.
 
Is there creases in the inner fenders? What does the lower raditator support look like? Or the the radiator support it's self? You also mentioned rails so are both sides repaired?
I also see you are from up in the rust belt. Where that repair is done is common place to rust due to nut in the rail to hold the K member in.
I'm no body guy but have replaced rails,quarters, and trunk pans etc. need a little more info so someone can help.
Sometimes good old school frame guy or one that knows his head from a hole in the ground can pull and fix "but if the above supports and such are bent then" ? That's a whole other can of worms.
 
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