76 Plymouth Valiant won't start

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Mike70 said:
The first time I tried to start the car (after replacing the battery & testing the starter) I was tracking the smoke and grabbed the red wire. I let go pretty quickly, as it was pretty warm. :)
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Warm is OK as far as not having to replace it, burnt sheathing it would need repaired.

Got to figure out where it's overloading/shorting.

You said it you jump it at the relay it turns over fine with no smoke anywhere?
 
Well now my daughter tells me the odometer still works so it must be something in the dash for the speedo problem...

Also, the fuel gauge has never worked; Is it the float in the gas tank? I don't see that getting fixed in the near future...
 
Bad Sport - "You said it you jump it at the relay it turns over fine with no smoke anywhere?"

Correct; acts like nothing is wrong at all, well, except it isn't getting any gas...
 
Here, Mike is the scans of the 76 wiring. In the back are additional for the AC wiring and heater.

These are a huge change from the actual wiring in 73/4 and the diagrams starting in 73 were a huge change from 72 and earlier in the way they are presented

www.letsgocomputers.com/docs/76wiringAbody.pdf

Give a "thanks" to TrailBeast who provided the host
 
Thanks 67Dart273.

Just thought of something else I didn't tell you guys... Yes, the car has factory A/C... And she had it charged in August. It apparently had a leak (but it has been converted to the newer stuff) and I don't know how well they fixed it (i.e. if they fixed the leak or did a vacuum test) but it still worked, when the car ran last week...
 
Mike70 said:
Well now my daughter tells me the odometer still works so it must be something in the dash for the speedo problem...

Could be you just need to pull the cable, slide it out of the casing and clean it. Lube with powered graphite and reinstall.

Also, the fuel gauge has never worked; Is it the float in the gas tank? I don't see that getting fixed in the near future...
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Could be as simple as the wire off of the sender in the back or the jumper is missing.

Need to find the other issue first and get it running.
 
If you want to chase down the damaged fuse link, load up that pdf, and go to page 13 (8-223) Note under "fuse links" it directs you to "19C", "21A", and "23B" which are map coordinates. Go down to page 18 (8-236) as well as the next page and you will see the links

This is where things get "sticky." If you follow the first fuse link there on 19C, it goes up to wire A3--14P, meaning circuit A3, is a no 14 wire PINK. Notice it goes to an oval "CE-1" This means "Connector, Engine (bay)1" and is the big bulkhead (firewall) disconnect

Now if you go clear down to page 38 (8-256) you'll see the connections detailed in the bulkhead disconnect, and the next page..........diagrams what those "CE" connectors are and where they are located Page 7 also diagrams the connector, with the purpose of each terminal

The battery cable connections and fuse links are also detailed on page 41

I know this sounds complicated. I usually have to take notes!!! LOL as I go

If you can still make out the labels on the fuse links, you can ID them by number. Otherwise go by color, wire size and "process of elimination".

There seems to be two no12 BLACK and one no 10 BLACK so those might be "interestin"
 

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So an attempt to put this into perspective.

I'm not happy with myself, on the resolution of these pages

Start with pages 8-236---237.

On page 8-237, a vertical wire and chain of big dots there at map #21-22 is a wire and splice series, and is the "jump off point" for the battery and alternator

1...Go to the alternator, pag e 8-236. Follow the big top wire, R6-10BK. That is the main alternator output, comes over and down through a fuse link to those splices, the fuse is R6-14R. So it is RED

2...Go to the battery. Follow off the + post, A3-14P, changine to A3-18GY --fuse link--and A3-14P (PINK) goes to connector CE1 the bulkhead connector Going to page 8-256, we see that A3-14P is cavity 20, zone 57A in the interior

If we go to page 8-220, we can see that cavity 20 is "hazard flasher"

3...Again at the battery, come off the + post, A1-8R, connects to A1-10R comes over to page 8-237 to the bottom of that chain of splices



4...Move slightly up the page. Notice it says SHUNT. That is the ammeter SHUNT which is "new." Note wire R16-20BK, and A11-20R coming off to the right, feeding to CE-1. THESE small wires are the ammeter, which is now "external shunt" CE1 is the bulkhead connector, feeding those wires into the interior

So R16 is cavity 12, zone 55A, ammeter

And A11 is cavity 29, zone 55B, ammeter

Now we have three fuse links left, coming off the top "to the right" of the chain of splices.

The top one---dotted---is only for 65A optional alternators, which you probably do not have.

5...Below, R6-16DBL (DARK BLue) and off to R6-12BK and to CE1 the bulkhead connector. This is cavity 16, zone 41E Cavity 16 is "alternator"

6...Below that, we have J1-18GY changing to J1-12R (RED) going to CE1

And that is cavity 25, zone 41E. Cavity 25 is "ignition switch feed"

Last, the bottom wire A1-10R goes off the bottom right of page 8-237, and if you go to 8-238, you see this is the main wire feeding the large stud on the starter relay

Now, if we go to page 8-256, we can reference the above stuff to the bulkhead connector, which I've added to the posts above

Next if we go to page 8-220, we can see the function of each bulkhead connector cavity. I also typed them in above
 
Wow, when you asked how my electrical skills were, you didn't say anything about working for NASA. ;) LOL Good thing I have a decent printer.

Is there a special "Thank You button"? I don't think I have seen TrailBeast on this thread to thank him.
 
You'll have to find one of his posts. The "Thanks" button is at the bottom of "the object" person's post

I'll try and help as I can. These are definately difficult to follow at times.

If you can, EG ID the fuse link that is burned, we can chase it to the "other end."

The remote shunt ammeter in these is a HUGE upgrade from the older models.

"Ma" could have made these considerably easier to follow, by putting the pin number and circuit purpose in at the destination of the CE1 label.

If you need higher rez scans of parts of pages, I can post those.
 
I gave the car another work over and didn't see any burnt or melted wires and my wife watched the headlights while I took every connection I could find apart and reconnected them. I also twisted and turned all of the wires.

67Dart273 said:
MEANWHILE let's try some simple stuff

1...Make doubly sure the battery clamps and cables are clean and tight.

I didn't double check this; going to do that next and take the felt washers off and put grease on the terminals, posts and outside of the wires that are exposed.

2...Pull the bulkhead connector(s) apart and try to repair them, refer to the MAD article earlier for reference. You don't need to modify anything, just try to get it 'workable'

I pulled them all and got nothing. Couldn't find any melted plastic and my wife watched the headlights.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

THEN let's try and get it running.

You can crank the engine by jumpering the starter relay with a screwdriver

You can provide TEMPORARY test ignition power by simply connecting the coil + terminal to a battery source. Don't leave this hooked up any longer than necessary to test.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Try to determine if the smoking is from a "short" or maybe just a loose connection. Go around and make sure everything in the car is shut off.........trunk and dome light, headlights, radio, heater, everything.

Turn the headlights on, and see if they appear to be "normal." Shake and wiggle the bulkhead connector in the engine bay, and look for flickering or dimming of the headlamps. This will give you a clue if you have a problem there. Keep your nose and eyes open for smoke and "hot" smell.

The headlights are normal and all the other lights work, except the burnt out parking lap on the DS; needs a new bulb.

Get under the dash, up under near the ammeter, and wiggle the wiring under there, same deal.

Crap, I didn't do this; I will do it and then review the battery connections.

Post back if you 'get' any results with this.
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The only thing I could find is a cut on one of the wires, close to the connector, on the Ballast Resistor. I'll attach/upload a picture.
 

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I overstepped........disregard worrying about the ammeter. I had forgotten the 76 is an "external shunt" ammeter. That lets that "out."

Might be well to step back and take a fresh start

You don't seem to see any smoking or heating now?

So where are we?

Does the starter crank the engine? If not let's attack that

If it does, have you checked for spark, what is the result?
 
Just got back from a test drive. I started to take the battery cables off and though to try to start it, "just for ***** and giggles" and it started right up, by jumping it across the relays. killed it and started it with the key... Drove it about 4 miles round trip and came home, killed it and started right back up...

While I was driving, with my foot in it, the speedo jumped up to 70 and went almost to 90, before I slowed down. It went to zero when I stopped at a light and then went up to 10 when I took off and sat at 5 when I was in a 35 zone, trying to blend in with traffic...

Now I need to go ahead and recheck the battery cables and connectors and take those felt gaskets off and put some grease on, then fix those two wires...
 
67Dart273 said:
I overstepped........disregard worrying about the ammeter. I had forgotten the 76 is an "external shunt" ammeter. That lets that "out."

Might be well to step back and take a fresh start

You don't seem to see any smoking or heating now?

So where are we?

Does the starter crank the engine? If not let's attack that

If it does, have you checked for spark, what is the result?
Click to expand...

Nope, didn't see smoke or smell anything burning and I let it warm up well before I went on the 4 mile drive.

I did get a shoe full of water, as it rained a few days ago. I think it could be the windshield or something is leaking. My daughter doesn't think it is the windshield. The water is coming from around the steering wheel on the DS and it leaks on the PS as well.
 
The leaks could be the cowl vent system. There are holes on the ends to drain, they get trashed up and mudded up and plugged. Also in some cars, the cowl can rust through. There are rings to make a "tub" up in the cowl above the vent holes. There was a thread the other day..........

Here read this.......

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=318012

Here's one someone was working over. You are looking at the bottom of the cowl, that piece is up inside the dash, the vent boxes are under those holes

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Thanks; I figured you guys have dealt with that problem before. I'll check it out.

I'm not sure if I am ready to tell my daughter to drive it.
 
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