8 3/4 ring gear change for optimum low end performance

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OK...this is where I need to give more info...I did brake stall test only today...I know...big dummy...I'll try to get a flash stall tomorrow. Working nights this week...sucks.
The converter does have an HS sticker on it.
Is flash stall typically higher than brake stall?
The car really runs great and seems to be timed very well but it def doesn't react anything like what your saying...yet anyway.
The OD and lock-up work great. OD @ 45mph for 10 seconds then lock-up following after another 10 seconds. Both on timed relays.
 
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2 years ago I swapped out my 727 for a 46RH transmission with a stock 5.9 magnum higher stall converter. I'm not sure what the exact stall is but the transmission came out of a 95 dakota with a 5.9 magnum. The converter is blue with a HS sticker on it and this is the only way I could know its high stall. It has a TF2 shift kit in it.
The engine is a 1998 5.9 mopar performance crate 300hp magnum with a 214/218* @ .50", .532/.539 lift cam, stock iron heads, eddy air gap and good breathing exhaust manifolds from treblig back when he was doing milled manifold work, dual 2 1/2" exhaust with an H pipe. Maybe around 350hp on the high rpm end. The rear end is an 8 3/4 truetrac geared with 3.55's. 27" tall tires. It runs great and I'm very happy with it's highway performance in overdrive and lock-up but I'm wondering how much I'm leaving on the table for low end torque. The rpm's at 65 in lock-up run at 1900. I'm thinking there's plenty of room for deeper gears but need some help finding what might be optimum for my application.
Any help is soo appreciated. I love it here and you guys are my go to when I can't find it in a search.
IMHO you dont need new gearing.
You need a torque converter with a higher stall speed, say around 3000rpm. It will not affect your cruz mode with the lock up which in my mind is currently dead on.
Contact one of the custom converter companies that do custom lock up converters they will help you. The correct converter will allow the engine to come up into the engines torque curve where you will find the power you have on tap to come out of the hole.
3.55 gearing is a great gear I would leave them in place.
 
3.73 gears were not an option "back in the day" but are now.

For reference my factory 3.92:1 Dakota runs just fine on the highway but the MPG falls way off between about 50 MPH and 70 (20-23 at 50, 16-17 at 70).
I documented the RPM at speed with 255/55/17 tires elsewhere on FxBO.

I've actually been thinking about stepping down to 3.73 or 3.55 to see if I can get that MPG sweet spot to move up a bit.
 
my factory 3.92:1 Dakota
Guessing 3.91geared/5.2Magnum?
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I had a 92MPFI, like that; it was harder on gas too, the faster I drove it; even with the overdrive/LU
My tires were 235/75-15s about 28.9" tall, compared to your 28.0..
Mine was an extended cab/regular box, 4x4, Fuel mileage was Capital L, Lousy; so I didn't keep track much.
That 5.2M had a surprising amount of giddy-up for it's tonnage.
 
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If you already "spin pretty good" going up in ratio will just aggravate that.

Sorta yeah and sorta no. A car will spin the tired harder and longer with a 2.94 than it will with a 4.30. That is to say "IF" it can break them loose with the 2.94. It will also stop spinning quicker with the 4.30.
 
3.73 gears were not an option "back in the day" but are now.

For reference my factory 3.92:1 Dakota runs just fine on the highway but the MPG falls way off between about 50 MPH and 70 (20-23 at 50, 16-17 at 70).
I documented the RPM at speed with 255/55/17 tires elsewhere on FxBO.

I've actually been thinking about stepping down to 3.73 or 3.55 to see if I can get that MPG sweet spot to move up a bit.

That's because Mopar wasn't a puss and went straight to the 3.91.
 
9 1/4 gets 3.92 gears. 8 3/4 gets 3.91.

2000 R/T ext cab 5.9.
 
but I'm wondering how much I'm leaving on the table for low end torque. The rpm's at 65 in lock-up run at 1900. I'm thinking there's plenty of room for deeper gears but need some help finding what might be optimum for my application.
Any help is soo appreciated. I love it here and you guys are my go to when I can't find it in a search.
Every bigger rear end will leave something on the table for the next bigger size until you run out of sizes.
The thing is; sooner or later, you will get more torque multiplication than your chassis can handle, and it all goes to tirespin; OR you can't use all of your throttle.
I have run a bunch of different rear gears searching for some happy medium. I found that for my combo; 367/4-speed, the perfect rear gear is different under different circumstances.

For instance;
>a 4.88 is great for straight-line acceleration; banging thru the gears keeps the engine in the powerzone.
>But around town, starting off with 4.88s, I am shifting into second before even finished crossing the road! And all the time; shifting,shifting,shifting so busy shifting.
>When sliding around corners, the engine needs to be in a sweetspot on the power curve for three reasons; 1) so I don't have to shift mid-corner, and 2) so I can steer the car with throttle, and 3) look good doing it. So what I discovered was that 3.55s are a really sweet gear for my combo, and driving style.

>In my combo, the starter gear is 3.55 x3.09=10.97 and no help from any TC. An automatic could use less starter, and in fact using a manual trans, the engine is married to the road, and so there are many many times that the engine might be down below 2000rpm. Whereas an auto with a 2800 only needs a lil pedal and pow the rpm climbs up to the stall rpm. Whereas the manual will have to downshift.

Are 3.55s right for you?
IDK your driving style. So I can't say.

I'm thinking there's plenty of room for deeper gears

With the overdrive, yur right, there is plenty of room. About 500 rpm from 1900 is still a good place to be. So that offers you plus 26% to work with ,which is a full gearsize in the transmission, or at the back; from 3.55s to 4.48s.
The thing is once moving at higher than stall speed, all you have accomplished is trading away one top gear to get one super-low race-type gear.

Lemme show you this relationship with numbers. First I'll list your current roadgears, then I'll try to match the new gears to 3.55s without overdrive gears;
your trans ratios are 2.45-1.45-1.00-.69od. With 3.55s this will produce Road-gears of;
.........8.70-5.15-3.55-2.45,.......then with 5.13s;
12.57-7.44-5.13-3.54........
Now look at the numbers;
3.55 and 3.54 are close enough to be considered to be the same. So in this example I traded away the 2.45 overdrive, to get the extra 12.57 first gear. In the process the cruse became 65=2890
From experience, I can tell you that 12.57 is a terrible street gear. Yeah ok, it'll be fun for about an hour. After that not so much because now, when yur in Second gear;
look at that 7.44 second gear versus your current 8.70 first gear. That's about a 15% drop in TM (Torque Multiplication) . That doesn't sound like much, but it is in fact a rear gear difference equivalent of going from 3.55s to 3.04s.. So second gear, the gear that you will be spending MOST of your time in as a streeter, with this 5.13 combo, will feel like it has a 3.04 rear gear.
Ok so forget 5.13s, lol

>>Lets consider something that will get you ~65= 2300. That would be 4.10s, for 65=2310 in LU.. lets compare roadgears again; first the current ones; In first gear at WOT; (the (*) is at 10% slip.)
.....8.70-5.15-3.55-2.45, and 30 to 40 window is 3610* to 4810*, Next;

10.05-5.95-4.10-2.83, with 4.10s and the window is 4170* to 5555*
So look at the rpms in the 30 to 40mph window; which is right for your engine?
So examine your driving style, and see where you want the power to be different. Maybe you can fine-tune it a lil. Is it worth the gear change? IDK. I've run nearly every ratio from 2.76s to 5.38s; and I keep coming back to 3.55s. For me, it's the right gear from 30 to 40 mph, and works with my driving style.
Only you know your driving style. Only you can choose the rear gear swap; if any. You already said that you were happy with the current performance........ If your current combo already has at least some First-gear tirespin, more first gear TM will only get you more tirespin.
EDIT
I should add that; your engine does not care where the TM comes from, whether from the trans or the rear gear; it only cares about the roadgear.
So whether you have a 4.0 in the back and a 3.0 in the trans, to the engine, it is the same as a 3.0 in the back and a 4.0 in the trans; the roadgear is 12.0 in either case.
 
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I've found that.................when I was young, having to change gears halfway though an intersection was nothing but fun!! When you're young you WANT to change gears even when it's not necessary, at least that what I used to do!!!. But when you're older you really don't want to have to change gears any more than necessary!!! So what gear ratio should you use??? Well it depends on your age????
 
I've found that.................when I was young, having to change gears halfway though an intersection was nothing but fun!! When you're young you WANT to change gears even when it's not necessary, at least that what I used to do!!!. But when you're older you really don't want to have to change gears any more than necessary!!! So what gear ratio should you use??? Well it depends on your age????

If you use 4.30s you can start out in high and just not shift.
 
If you use 4.30s you can start out in high and just not shift.
Or second, or third!!! I've always loved the lower rear gears when I was young, I never cared about how much or how often I had to shift, the more shifting the better......................It's all about how fast you can come off the line!!!:steering::steering::steering::steering::steering:
 
Or second, or third!!! I've always loved the lower rear gears when I was young, I never cared about how much or how often I had to shift, the more shifting the better......................It's all about how fast you can come off the line!!!:steering::steering::steering::steering::steering:

I much prefer anything lower than 3.55. Either it's a performance car or it ain't. Especially with a slant 6. The smaller cubes, plus being an inline engine responds so much better.
 
That's the problem with most mods everyone is different looking for different type of performance or compromises, unfortunately this leave no answer for the OP other than try different gears out. You might like 4.10 you may want deeper or you may find 3.55 is what suits you or maybe it's another part of your combo that your not happy with like cam.
 
Confirmed the stall speed today. Yup right at 2000 rpm.
I totally understand it’s truly about my wants and performance adaptation to my driving habits and at this point you’ve all given me great input and information. I’m going to stay with the 3.55’s and go for the higher stall converter for now. It really does look like that’ll give me what I’m looking for.
I’m really fortunate to have you guys here. I so appreciate it.
I’ll be researching converter builders but am wondering if you guys have recommendations. I’ve seen precision and a few others but it looks like they tend to lean more toward race converters. I don’t want anyone to think I’m wasting their time with such a lower end build.
 
Confirmed the stall speed today. Yup right at 2000 rpm.
I totally understand it’s truly about my wants and performance adaptation to my driving habits and at this point you’ve all given me great input and information. I’m going to stay with the 3.55’s and go for the higher stall converter for now. It really does look like that’ll give me what I’m looking for.
I’m really fortunate to have you guys here. I so appreciate it.
I’ll be researching converter builders but am wondering if you guys have recommendations. I’ve seen precision and a few others but it looks like they tend to lean more toward race converters. I don’t want anyone to think I’m wasting their time with such a lower end build.

How did you confirm that, exactly? There's really only one accurate way and you have to have a manual valve body to do it. You can fairly close without one, but it will never be right on.
 
That's the problem with most mods everyone is different looking for different type of performance or compromises, unfortunately this leave no answer for the OP other than try different gears out. You might like 4.10 you may want deeper or you may find 3.55 is what suits you or maybe it's another part of your combo that your not happy with like cam.

That's right. All too often, people build engines that make their best power and torque well above stock and in order to get there, you have to spin the engine to that point. Then people try to put a gear in that compromises that build and expect it to perform adequately. The engine needs to be in its power band to perform well, whether stock or otherwise.
 
check this graph out; It's for a 5.2M but you can get an idea;
check out the power at 2000, I see ~105hp.
Check the power at 2400; I see ~130hp..
Now check it at 2800, I see about 155hp.
And finally check at 3200, I see ~180hp
How much power do you want at zero mph?
I mean, you are choosing a launch rpm here, just like slipping the clutch with a 4-speed. But one thing that is different is that every time you upshift, and the rpm would normally fall below your stall rpm; now you get to chose a higher rpm just by standing on the gas.
Here's an example;
Suppose you were taking off somewhat sedately, and yur sitting at 3400 when you shift into Second. Normally the Rs will fall to .59, so 2000, and yur engine kindof lays down. But say you had a 2800 stall. Now you can step on it and immediately the Rs pop back up to 2800 or more. Check out the difference of max power available at 2000 versus 2800. On this graph the difference is from 105hp to 155hp. So if your engine is soft in that zone, the 2800 would perk it right up.
Now 3400 in First-gear with 3.55s could be 28 mph. So on the 1-2 shift with the Rs dropping to 2000, yeah, it will be a tad sluggish if you had just 105hp. But with the 2800, comes 155hp and she perks right up.
Don't forget I am working off this 5.2Magnum chart; so your 360 will be even perkier.lol. Pick your poison

power-318-gif.gif
 
How did you confirm that, exactly? There's really only one accurate way and you have to have a manual valve body to do it. You can fairly close without one, but it will never be right on.
The first time I ran it from a dead stop in drive but I wanted to confirm/compare and the 46rh has a tf2 kit in it and I verified it in 1st gear to be sure it would be close. I know it’s not a true manual valve body as it can and is driven in drive quite frequently but it shifts very well both ways. I have to assume it’s pretty close.
 
The first time I ran it from a dead stop in drive but I wanted to confirm/compare and the 46rh has a tf2 kit in it and I verified it in 1st gear to be sure it would be close. I know it’s not a true manual valve body as it can and is driven in drive quite frequently but it shifts very well both ways. I have to assume it’s pretty close.

No sir. It must be in high gear to test. It can be 1000 or more RPM off using first. That's how you do it.
 
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