998 troubles

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keefer73dart

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So I installed tf2 kit in my trans been driving fine for two month now. All of a sudden the trans feels like it gets stuck in first and second at same time. I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift. But I can let off gas pedal and car free glides with out nose diving like it’s in second But when you push back into gas pedal the rpms shoot back up like it’s in first. I know it’s not the band because when in third I can nail the gas and it down shifts into second. Any ideas?
 
I guess you've done the basics like verified the fluid level, synchronized the shifter to the VB, and adjusted the KD, if used.

If yeses, then next question is; How does reverse work? still normal?
If yes; that at least, proves the L/R servo is working, and the band adjustment is close enough.

Next question is; is the governor still on line, or did you bypass it, and if so, then how? Cuz I'ma thinking the governor pressure has gone away.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
I guess you've done the basics like verified the fluid level, synchronized the shifter to the VB, and adjusted the KD, if used.

If yeses, then next question is; How does reverse work? still normal?
Click to expand...
Yes everything as it should be and have messed with linkage. No change. And yes reverse works fine as well.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I guess you've done the basics like verified the fluid level, synchronized the shifter to the VB, and adjusted the KD, if used.

If yeses, then next question is; How does reverse work? still normal?
If yes; that at least, proves the L/R servo is working, and the band adjustment is close enough.

Next question is; is the governor still on line, or did you bypass it, and if so, then how? Cuz I'ma thinking the governor pressure has gone away.
Click to expand...
And yes governer is still there haven’t bypassed it? And my shifter is a little off actually with indicator but can still hit all positions
 
Next question, if you just hold the gas pedal in a fixed position like say 1/4 throttle, do both shifts occur at a normal place and different from if you hold your foot at say 1/2 throttle?
If yesses to all, then at least the governor has not blown up.

but, IMO
there is still an improper relationship between the governor pressure and line pressure, so the best course of action is to put some pressure gauges on her and follow the factory test procedure.
My thought is that a too-low governor pressure, or a too high line-pressure will cause your symptom.

Have you recently changed the rear gear ratio?
Was your A998 transferred in from another car and what was the rear gear ratio in that car, compared to what is in yours now?
The governor flyweight has to be matched to the rear gear ratio.
It is the governor pressure, that fights the throttle pressure to make the shift. But as soon as the shift is made, the throttle pressure is cut off. And as long as the governor pressure holds the 1-2 valve in position, it cannot go back into first. The only ways the trans can backshift is if the governor pressure falls, or the throttle pressure rises high enough to cause a kickdown
OK hang on, all that is true.
But a more likely scenario is that the oil circuit to the rear clutch is failing, allowing line pressure to hemorrhage below a certain pressure/rpm. If this always happens at a particular SPEED then that points to a certain rpm, and a certain line-pressure. The major players in this circuit are the rear clutch and the accumulator.
The accumulator is not known for blowing up, so the more likely candidate is the lipseal in the rear clutch, which is actually engaged in all forward gears. So yeah; I'm going with a faulty rear clutch.
Hang around for some second opinions, from other FABO members.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Next question, if you just hold the gas pedal in a fixed position like say 1/4 throttle, do both shifts occur at a normal place and different from if you hold your foot at say 1/2 throttle?
If yesses to all, then at least the governor has not blown up.
Click to expand...
I’m only getting a shift into third not into second. And it will kick down out of third into second when pedal is stabbed in third. What I meant is I can feel all the positions through shifter. If I manually shift to second from first I have nothing. But I’m pretty sure I was able to drop into second manually from third. Make sense ?sorry didn’t mean nothing just meant not second
 
Oh well that is something else, then

Ok so I'm confused; So lets start over.
Firstly you say
keefer73dart said:
And yes reverse works fine as well.
Click to expand...
Then you say;
keefer73dart said:
What I meant is I can feel all the positions through shifter.
Click to expand...
But then you say
keefer73dart said:
If I manually shift to second from first I have nothing.
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and in the beginning
keefer73dart said:
I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift. But I can let off gas pedal and car free glides with out nose diving like it’s in second But when you push back into gas pedal the rpms shoot back up like it’s in first. I know it’s not the band because when in third I can nail the gas and it down shifts into second. Any ideas?
Click to expand...


So, I'm gonna key in on this;
I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift.
Click to expand...
So let's recap;
reverse works fine. and
third works fine,
you cannot upshift into second; but you can kickdown into second from third.
Ok so far?
Now; I did not hear you complain about sluggish take off, so I'm gonna assume that the car takes off normally in DRIVE; meaning first is fine.
Is that right?

Ok, the most important thing,believe it or not, is that reverse works. This tells me that both the L/R band and the hi-drum are working.
Next, if the car takes off in Drive, then the Forward clutch is working, and the rear sprag is working.
The 3-2KD works so the KD servo and band are working.
At this point I would say that there is nothing wrong with your trans; all the major players are working.
Well except for the 2-1 manual downshift.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Oh well that is something else, then
Click to expand...
Ya I’m confused as to what it could be. My first thought was fluid leak somewhere. Could a sticky valve in the valve body do this or a hung up check ball or something like some material in there is hanging it up or something. The transmission was working great just did this out of nowhere. I’m lost also trans is original to vehicle no gear change. I have a 904 that’s rebuilt I can put into it that was originally built for my dart . But I have to get a new converter the converter was for a 340 and 8 inch 3500 stall which was perfect for the dart but not ideal for my daily driver with a 360 with nothing fancy done to it. If it was something simple I was gonna go ahead and leave The 998 but if it’s not then I’m gonna put the rebuilt 904 in.
 
keefer73dart said:
So I installed tf2 kit in my trans been driving fine for two month now. All of a sudden the trans feels like it gets stuck in first and second at same time. I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift. But I can let off gas pedal and car free glides with out nose diving like it’s in second But when you push back into gas pedal the rpms shoot back up like it’s in first. I know it’s not the band because when in third I can nail the gas and it down shifts into second. Any ideas?
Click to expand...

"I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift."
Is this in automatic shift mode then?
Or is this a manual upshift?

I think I need to sleep on it.
 
keefer73dart said:
Ya I’m confused as to what it could be. My first thought was fluid leak somewhere. Could a sticky valve in the valve body do this or a hung up check ball or something like some material in there is hanging it up or something. The transmission was working great just did this out of nowhere. I’m lost also trans is original to vehicle no gear change. I have a 904 that’s rebuilt I can put into it that was originally built for my dart . But I have to get a new converter the converter was for a 340 and 8 inch 3500 stall which was perfect for the dart but not ideal for my daily driver with a 360 with nothing fancy done to it. If it was something simple I was gonna go ahead and leave The 998 but if it’s not then I’m gonna put the rebuilt 904 in.
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Sorry not great with computers lol. I’ll start over. So It won’t shift into second is what it feels like manually
AJ/FormS said:
"I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift."
Is this in automatic shift mode then?
Or is this a manual upshift?
Click to expand...
AJ/FormS said:
"I don’t feel a 1st to 2nd shift."
Is this in automatic shift mode then?
Or is this a manual upshift?
Click to expand...
Neither the only way I’m getting second is a down shift from third to second and pretty sure I get it manually and in full auto. So no second unless it’s a downshift. It’s really weird feeling like I was saying earlier. Your driving and you get to let’s say 20 mph and there is no shift into second. but if you let off pedal it free glides with out nose diving like if you were still in first. But you press on pedal again and feels like it’s stuck in first with high rpms.
 
I think you did it to me again,lol;
keefer73dart said:
Neither the only way I’m getting second is a down shift from third to second and pretty sure I get it manually and in full auto.
Click to expand...
That sentence says ;
"the only way I’m getting second is a down shift from third to second
and pretty sure I get it manually
and in full auto."
with no commas.
So it's clear as mud to me.
What is the "it"
But, the rest of the post clears it up;
keefer73dart said:
So no second unless it’s a downshift. It’s really weird feeling like I was saying earlier. Your driving and you get to let’s say 20 mph and there is no shift into second. but if you let off pedal it free glides with out nose diving like if you were still in first. But you press on pedal again and feels like it’s stuck in first with high rpms.
Click to expand...
So what I'm getting is;
the trans is Not upshifting AUTOMATICALLY, and falling out of gear.

Questions;
Is the Valve Body, the same one as was on it before you kitted it?
Did it work properly at that time?
If both yes then you know what Ima thinking right. Ima thinking the KD sleeve might be installed backwards, causing your throttle pressure to max out all the time
As for the falling out of gear, I'm still thinking.

Are you still running the before-TF2 convertor?
 
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And for
AJ/FormS said:
I think you did it to me again,lol;

That sentence says ;
"the only way I’m getting second is a down shift from third to second
and pretty sure I get it manually
and in full auto."
with no commas.
So it's clear as mud to me.
What is the "it"
But, the rest of the post clears it up;

So what I'm getting is;
the trans is Not upshifting AUTOMATICALLY, and falling out of gear.

Questions;
Is the Valve Body, the same one as was on it before you kitted it?
Did it work properly at that time?
If both yes then you know what Ima thinking right. Ima thinking the KD sleeve might be installed backwards, causing your throttle pressure to max out all the time
As for the falling out of gear, I'm still thinking.

Are you still running the before-TF2 convertor?
Click to expand...
Truck had some lazy shifts and a little bit of third gear bind up. That’s why I installed kit.yes truck was running fine for like two months after I installed kit. Yes same converter as before.
 
Well, if it was mine, I'd put it on a hoist and cuz I have the required gauges; I would oil-pressure test all the available circuits, paying particular attention to the governor.

Lacking gauges,
I think I would check out the governor first,if nothing wrong there, then
I would drop the pan and inspect the oil, and especially the filter. A clogged filter could act like low oil level.
After that, I'd drop the VB and air-pressure test the clutches and servos. Finding nothing wrong,
I would look into the VB.
The problem is, I don't know what I would be looking for there.Since it worked fine for two months, I'd be hoping to find something obvious. But at this point, Ima thinking the problem lies in the VB, But I just don't know.
 
I will guess that the lining has come off of the rear band causing it to stick to the drum. Then when u manually up shift to second u have a problem with both bands being on. U up shift to 3rd then both bands are disengaged. Then when u down shift fro 3rd to 2nd u have 2nd because the 1st gear band is not in use. Or it is still possible that the 2nd gear band is the problem if it does it in auto mode. Kim
 
oldkimmer said:
I will guess that the lining has come off of the rear band causing it to stick to the drum. Then when u manually up shift to second u have a problem with both bands being on. U up shift to 3rd then both bands are disengaged. Then when u down shift fro 3rd to 2nd u have 2nd because the 1st gear band is not in use. Or it is still possible that the 2nd gear band is the problem if it does it in auto mode. Kim
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Oh man I shouldda thought of that, but
what are your thoughts of the falling out of gear business.
The more I think about that , I'm starting to think the convertor is pooched.
 
Well does it really fall out of gear or is it just coasting? He did say the indicator needle was outta wack so maybe his linkage is too so it’s in both gears at once. Don’t think at all that the converter is the problem. Kim
 
He did say it had lazy shifts and 3rd gear bind up b4 the kit. So tranny had problems b4 and a shift kit with more pressure is never a fix for a problematic tranny. The fluid was probably cooked and there was lots of crap in the pan that he failed to mention. Kim
 
oldkimmer said:
Like Paul Harvey used to say. Stay tuned for the rest of the storey. Kim
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Actually pan wasn’t to bad. There was some material yes not much. Fluid was nice and red no burnt smell . I think all 904 s are kinda lazy. Had the flare problem in my truck and the kit Fixed it still driving it with no problems. So thought it was worth a shot. I’m no trans expert tho lol. I have a rebuilt trans I’m gonna just yank this one and put new one in and dissect the old one sometime and see what went wrong. If I’m able to identify it lol like I said I’m no trans expert lol
 
oldkimmer said:
So now u say u have had a flare up instead of bind up as u originally posted? Time to put ur rebuilt in. Kim
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Sorry I’m mistaken I thought the flare was caused by bind up. Clearly that’s not the case. Sorry for the mix up. Like I said I’m new to digging into transmissions. Thanks for everybody’s input and help. I’m just gonna use my other trans. Gotta get kids to bed. Calling it a night thanx everyone
 
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