A 373 Stroker?

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aquapimp

aquapimp

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I'm still trying to learn here, guys and gals, thanks for all the help and advice so far!

I am struggling trying to decide what motor to swap into my '69 Dart GT. It currently has a nice running 273. I am looking for a torquey 400 HP street small block. Mid 12's would be great, faster would be better, of course!

Seems like the Blueprint crate engines get a ton of mixed reviews.... sketchy!

Also, it seems weird to me to put a '93 or newer Dakota engine in a pristine '69 muscle machine, no?

Anyways, I stumbled upon this while trying to educate myself:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...witem=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1182

Anyone have any experience with this builder or even engine combo?

Thanks again,
Tom Wood
 
Ihave a 372(340 with a 360 crank)in my 73 Dart Sport,4 speed car.It has a little more than the stock 340 had with a mild cam.
 
Mopar had a nice Scat crank for sale awhile back that puts the 3.58 stroke in the 340 mains..

then you use the 360 pistons for the 4.06 or 4.07 bored 340.
 
I'd be very leery spending that much money for an engine on e-bay. It's a crap shoot if you ask me. Just like the Blueprint engines are. JMO
 
pettybludart said:
Oh,forgot to mention it dynoed at 452hp,440ftlbs.Don,t see that out of a .060over 360?JMO
Click to expand...

Alright, I notice you take target in front of what I say a lot, but all the while I'm commenting to the OP.
But since you seem to see something I don't...

Tell me how 3 cid's is gonna determine the diff at that power level?

You can get 500 hp out of a 360, but so what?

why would you spend extra for a crank mod, or new crank when identically built you 'might' see a diff 2-3 hp?

just wondering.
 
Thanks for all the input.... I'll pass on this "stroker" and keep learning!

@ Moper, your knowledge and willingness to educate is amazing.


your help is really appreciated!
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
Alright, I notice you take target in front of what I say a lot, but all the while I'm commenting to the OP.
But since you seem to see something I don't...

Tell me how 3 cid's is gonna determine the diff at that power level?

You can get 500 hp out of a 360, but so what?

why would you spend extra for a crank mod, or new crank when identically built you 'might' see a diff 2-3 hp?

just wondering.
Click to expand...
Justin,I thought you were targeting me for...wasting my money for 2-3hp?My 340 was maybe 300hp?So I got a few more ponies out of it.I also did this the to the first Mopar I ever owned and would have had it stroked to 416 had I known.Well live and learn.
 
aquapimp said:
Thanks for all the input.... I'll pass on this "stroker" and keep learning!

@ Moper, your knowledge and willingness to educate is amazing.


your help is really appreciated!
Click to expand...
Good idea, that motor looked bad in the pic, and the 71 340 intake is the best, not the 70 (probably only a horse or two)
 
Tom, $4k can can go a LONG way in building a really good engine, if your carefull. Since they "don't" state the year of block, it could be a thinwall, in which +.060" on the bore is risky at best. Offset ground crank means original rod journals were probably trashed and they hung chevy rods on this thing? Bad idea because of "beam off-set",(side loading). If you don't feel competent, to assemble engine yourself, a lot of "skilled" machine shops can, usually pretty reasonable. Good Luck,ateam.
 
Thanks ateam and everyone who has given their $.02.

How do you guys feel about the 408 strokers with magnum heads?

Am I just being stubborn looking for an era specific block?

I'm keeping the #'s matching 273 safe on an engine stand..... anyways.

I have a very respected guy in town (3rd generation mopar racer) who has a perfect, unmolested '70 340 block, and a very well built 408 stroker motor (near turn key).

He is asking $1000 for the 340 block, and $5K for the Stroker. He built the stroker himself, shooting for 475 HP and similar torque numbers. He claims to Have $6K in parts invested into the 408 Stroker.

He blew up his 440 Dart Race Car and needs funds asap.

Ideas, opinions?


** please note that although price is obviously important, I'd rather spend 7k and be thrilled, than 5K and be bummed! My dream was to build a 340 for the dart, but I have been kinda talked out of it due to the 340's desire to be a high revving engine and not a torque monster. I plan on taking the car to the track only a couple times a year. looking for a reliable, 400 HP/TQ street engine on pump gas.
 
I make it a rule not to believe anyone unless I've seen it with my own eyes... If the stroker's what he says, it's a good deal and he not fibbing. A good 4" arm engine will run more than 6 with all the stuff to actually run on it. If you know and respect him, and he's willing to drop the pan and pull the intake so you can at least check the parts he used, I'd say go for it. This would be std procedure for anyone buying something pricey. I've generally do it so it's not a personal attack on him, just solid business sense.
 
again, sound advice.

Dave, I 100% respect your opinions and knowledge. You have been so kind helping me out!

I saw an article in Mopar Performance about a 340 they were building up. They started with returning it to stock as much as possible, dynoing it and then making small, logical changes to it as would a typical "hot rodder" back in the day.

The first change was a carb, then intake manifold, headers, and cam. No boring out, no stroking etc.

the numbers looked impressive to me, in regards to both torque and HP. It seemed as though the power came on around 3000 RPM and carried it through to around 6000.

Should I give up on the 340 dream so quick?
 
Guys, this was what I found:

1970 340 High Performance Mill Dyno - Dyno Derby 340
Dyno Results
Westech Performance Group
Superflow Dyno
Horsepower
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 185.2 195.5 199.6 206.4 206.2 214.7
3200 195.4 206.1 213.9 220.7 220.8 229.3
3400 208.9 224.6 233.0 240.6 240.5 251.5
3600 224.8 238.7 252.7 260.8 259.9 275.7
3800 236.4 253.7 266.6 277.0 276.9 298.1
4000 249.5 267.6 280.0 291.8 291.8 311.7
4200 259.3 278.9 292.9 306.0 306.2 327.1
4400 265.0 287.1 304.3 321.3 321.3 344.6
4600 268.8 297.2 313.3 335.2 334.7 355.9
4800 274.7 306.8 321.1 343.1 342.5 366.7
5000 278.5 312.7 329.1 352.6 350.4 377.0
5100 280.2 316.9 330.6 354.5 352.4 381.3
5200 281.3 316.9 330.8 353.6 353.6 384.3
5400 273.7 314.9 329.3 350.8 355.4 386.1
5500 273.5 313.9 330.4 350.7 355.9 387.4
5600 269.3 314.5 330.2 350.9 353.5 389.4
5700 312.7 329.3 348.6 353.3 391.6
5800 308.8 326.2 347.6 351.4 387.2
6000 329.2 353.4 383.7
6200 314.8 373.7
Torque
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 324.2 342.3 349.5 361.4 361.0 375.8
3200 320.7 338.3 351.1 362.3 362.3 376.4
3400 322.7 347.0 359.9 371.6 371.5 388.4
3600 328.0 348.2 368.7 380.4 379.1 402.2
3800 326.8 350.7 368.4 382.9 382.7 412.0
4000 327.6 351.3 367.6 383.1 383.1 409.3
4200 324.3 348.8 366.3 382.7 382.9 409.0
4400 316.4 342.7 363.2 383.5 383.6 411.4
4600 306.9 339.3 357.7 382.7 382.1 406.3
4800 300.6 335.7 351.4 375.4 374.8 401.3
5000 292.6 328.5 345.7 370.4 368.1 396.0
5200 284.1 320.1 334.1 357.2 357.1 388.1
5400 266.2 306.3 320.3 341.2 345.6 375.5
5600 252.6 295.0 309.7 329.1 331.7 365.2
5800 279.6 295.4 314.8 318.2 350.6
6000 288.1 309.3 335.8
6200 266.7 316.6
Phase 1: Stock 340 baseline, Chrysler electronic ignition
Phase 2: Replace small production AVS with Edelbrock 800 CFM carb
Phase 3: Replace factory HP manifolds with Hooker 151/48-inch headers
Phase 4: Replace factory iron 340 HP intake with Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap
Phase 5: Replace SSI springs and retainers with Engle #604LS retainers and #993 springs
Phase 6: Replace stock 340 HP cam with Comp Xtreme Energy 268
 
well people have questions about westech dyno service because they seem to have some of the highest #'s around, but they look good huh? lol

I have that magazine still, it got real good when they stabbed a custom comp dual pattern solid w/1.6's and some ported smog era 360 heads w/tti's and netted 471hp.

probably an honest 450'ish hp
 
pettybludart said:
Justin,I thought you were targeting me for...wasting my money for 2-3hp?My 340 was maybe 300hp?So I got a few more ponies out of it.I also did this the to the first Mopar I ever owned and would have had it stroked to 416 had I known.Well live and learn.
Click to expand...

well if you have a 360 but didn't have a crank to begin with and it wasn't $$$ sure maybe. To me it would be purely circumstantial to go that route beyond cid rules or something of that nature. The piston is what? a low comp hyper or stocker? if costly, that really makes no sense and I'll just spend $600 for 50ci's instead, the bearings n the rest figures in even w/+45 more for the rod bearings.

You had a '340' and picked up 33 ci's, That makes sense.

For the op, unless you have flow #'s from the guy and a go through of the bottom to what pistons, I recommend that for 4 grand you build your own motor and better yet a 4'' stroker.
You can get a kit for $1300 balanced, another $600-800 for block work, $71 gaskets, and then $380 or less for mancini's cam/spring/lifter/retainer/lock deal, $225 on an intake -rpm?, and 380 for some cranes or $440 for some hughes=4200 or so and you'll have way more power and know what you have, and can be mild cam'd and still pull the house off the foundation.

jmo
 
aquapimp said:
Guys, this was what I found:

1970 340 High Performance Mill Dyno - Dyno Derby 340
Dyno Results
Westech Performance Group
Superflow Dyno
Horsepower
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 185.2 195.5 199.6 206.4 206.2 214.7
3200 195.4 206.1 213.9 220.7 220.8 229.3
3400 208.9 224.6 233.0 240.6 240.5 251.5
3600 224.8 238.7 252.7 260.8 259.9 275.7
3800 236.4 253.7 266.6 277.0 276.9 298.1
4000 249.5 267.6 280.0 291.8 291.8 311.7
4200 259.3 278.9 292.9 306.0 306.2 327.1
4400 265.0 287.1 304.3 321.3 321.3 344.6
4600 268.8 297.2 313.3 335.2 334.7 355.9
4800 274.7 306.8 321.1 343.1 342.5 366.7
5000 278.5 312.7 329.1 352.6 350.4 377.0
5100 280.2 316.9 330.6 354.5 352.4 381.3
5200 281.3 316.9 330.8 353.6 353.6 384.3
5400 273.7 314.9 329.3 350.8 355.4 386.1
5500 273.5 313.9 330.4 350.7 355.9 387.4
5600 269.3 314.5 330.2 350.9 353.5 389.4
5700 312.7 329.3 348.6 353.3 391.6
5800 308.8 326.2 347.6 351.4 387.2
6000 329.2 353.4 383.7
6200 314.8 373.7
Torque
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 324.2 342.3 349.5 361.4 361.0 375.8
3200 320.7 338.3 351.1 362.3 362.3 376.4
3400 322.7 347.0 359.9 371.6 371.5 388.4
3600 328.0 348.2 368.7 380.4 379.1 402.2
3800 326.8 350.7 368.4 382.9 382.7 412.0
4000 327.6 351.3 367.6 383.1 383.1 409.3
4200 324.3 348.8 366.3 382.7 382.9 409.0
4400 316.4 342.7 363.2 383.5 383.6 411.4
4600 306.9 339.3 357.7 382.7 382.1 406.3
4800 300.6 335.7 351.4 375.4 374.8 401.3
5000 292.6 328.5 345.7 370.4 368.1 396.0
5200 284.1 320.1 334.1 357.2 357.1 388.1
5400 266.2 306.3 320.3 341.2 345.6 375.5
5600 252.6 295.0 309.7 329.1 331.7 365.2
5800 279.6 295.4 314.8 318.2 350.6
6000 288.1 309.3 335.8
6200 266.7 316.6
Phase 1: Stock 340 baseline, Chrysler electronic ignition
Phase 2: Replace small production AVS with Edelbrock 800 CFM carb
Phase 3: Replace factory HP manifolds with Hooker 151/48-inch headers
Phase 4: Replace factory iron 340 HP intake with Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap
Phase 5: Replace SSI springs and retainers with Engle #604LS retainers and #993 springs
Phase 6: Replace stock 340 HP cam with Comp Xtreme Energy 268
Click to expand...


If you believe the numbers in that dyno test, I have an 800hp cr250 engine from my dirt bike I'd like to sell you. 8)

I've seen a few built using the same basic components, all made between 325-350hp and some have proved that out with MPH/Weight at the track. None made more than 350hp.
 
How much do you want for that 800 hp cr250 engine? I can use a couple if they are avaiable.
 
aquapimp said:
Guys, this was what I found:

1970 340 High Performance Mill Dyno - Dyno Derby 340
Dyno Results
Westech Performance Group
Superflow Dyno
Horsepower
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 185.2 195.5 199.6 206.4 206.2 214.7
3200 195.4 206.1 213.9 220.7 220.8 229.3
3400 208.9 224.6 233.0 240.6 240.5 251.5
3600 224.8 238.7 252.7 260.8 259.9 275.7
3800 236.4 253.7 266.6 277.0 276.9 298.1
4000 249.5 267.6 280.0 291.8 291.8 311.7
4200 259.3 278.9 292.9 306.0 306.2 327.1
4400 265.0 287.1 304.3 321.3 321.3 344.6
4600 268.8 297.2 313.3 335.2 334.7 355.9
4800 274.7 306.8 321.1 343.1 342.5 366.7
5000 278.5 312.7 329.1 352.6 350.4 377.0
5100 280.2 316.9 330.6 354.5 352.4 381.3
5200 281.3 316.9 330.8 353.6 353.6 384.3
5400 273.7 314.9 329.3 350.8 355.4 386.1
5500 273.5 313.9 330.4 350.7 355.9 387.4
5600 269.3 314.5 330.2 350.9 353.5 389.4
5700 312.7 329.3 348.6 353.3 391.6
5800 308.8 326.2 347.6 351.4 387.2
6000 329.2 353.4 383.7
6200 314.8 373.7
Torque
RPM Phase 1 Phase 2 Phase 3 Phase 4 Phase 5 Phase 6
3000 324.2 342.3 349.5 361.4 361.0 375.8
3200 320.7 338.3 351.1 362.3 362.3 376.4
3400 322.7 347.0 359.9 371.6 371.5 388.4
3600 328.0 348.2 368.7 380.4 379.1 402.2
3800 326.8 350.7 368.4 382.9 382.7 412.0
4000 327.6 351.3 367.6 383.1 383.1 409.3
4200 324.3 348.8 366.3 382.7 382.9 409.0
4400 316.4 342.7 363.2 383.5 383.6 411.4
4600 306.9 339.3 357.7 382.7 382.1 406.3
4800 300.6 335.7 351.4 375.4 374.8 401.3
5000 292.6 328.5 345.7 370.4 368.1 396.0
5200 284.1 320.1 334.1 357.2 357.1 388.1
5400 266.2 306.3 320.3 341.2 345.6 375.5
5600 252.6 295.0 309.7 329.1 331.7 365.2
5800 279.6 295.4 314.8 318.2 350.6
6000 288.1 309.3 335.8
6200 266.7 316.6
Phase 1: Stock 340 baseline, Chrysler electronic ignition
Phase 2: Replace small production AVS with Edelbrock 800 CFM carb
Phase 3: Replace factory HP manifolds with Hooker 151/48-inch headers
Phase 4: Replace factory iron 340 HP intake with Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap
Phase 5: Replace SSI springs and retainers with Engle #604LS retainers and #993 springs
Phase 6: Replace stock 340 HP cam with Comp Xtreme Energy 268
Click to expand...

The Westech numbers can be used to plot trends rather than specific figures because it is well known they get some VERY happy figures. It's a decent package. But as I said in the PM, that torque starts at 3K... You need it to start at 1800. To get that 340 with those numbers to jump out of the hole you'll need a convertor of 3500-4K. In other words and in my opinion, not streetable. The "tight" 9.5" convertors on the market are soft to me. For a street car that races once in a while, I dont want the stall any higher than 200rpm below the 50mph cruise rpm. For most cars, that's 22-2400 tops. This engine would feel like a turd with that with 3.23s of 3.55s.
 
well, I went over to the local racer's house last night, and was pretty blown away by the Moparage! '69 440 GTX, '64 Max Wedge Coronet, '70 Duster drag car, '69 440 Charger, '79 Lil Red Express... WOW!

Despite some of the best advice on the planet given to me, I just could not pass up the 340.

The fact that it is a local, virgin, Standard bore, unmolested block, and CAME OUT OF A '69 car. was just too much to walk away from.

So, the learning needs to continue.

Thanks so much guys, now, anyone point me in the direction of good 340 street builds?

Tom
 
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