A904 transmission

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eastvan52

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have a 75 dart with a 225 slant 6 - a904 tranny - i hear that the tranny robs about 30 percent from the engine - trying to figure out a few things here - are most transmissions like this that they need a certain power band from the motor
 
It take HP to turn the drive train...transmission and rear ends..

904 take about 25 HP less then a 727...

according to a old Hot Rod Magazine...the 904 takes about 24 HP to drive.
 
Yep, the 904 takes less from the motor than just about anything else besides a manual trans.
 
is there anythig that one can do to better matters - i guess rebuild the motor to get more horsepower and add transmission upgrades - so then no matter what the tranny will still want that 25% of gaining hp from an engine modification
 
is there anythig that one can do to better matters - i guess rebuild the motor to get more horsepower and add transmission upgrades - so then no matter what the tranny will still want that 25% of gaining hp from an engine modification

25% is the amount it draws on some random stock motor, but 25% is not what it draws from a 500hp motor.
More like 15%, so as the hp goes up the percentage of engine power the trans uses goes down. :)
 
904 take about 25 HP less then a 727...

I still take this as a mopar myth...just like that factory 6 pack on the 383...

Some smart folks have taken the identical car etc and have done back to back drags with them and found to be less that a 1/16 of a second difference at the end of the quarter mile....the study has been posted on this board somewhere.. but I guess if a 1/16 of a second equates to 25 hp..

I don't argue that there is a difference of hp to turn the trans because it has bigger mass...but 25 HP ?
 
I still take this as a mopar myth...just like that factory 6 pack on the 383...

Some smart folks have taken the identical car etc and have done back to back drags with them and found to be less that a 1/16 of a second difference at the end of the quarter mile....the study has been posted on this board somewhere.. but I guess if a 1/16 of a second equates to 25 hp..

I don't argue that there is a difference of hp to turn the trans because it has bigger mass...but 25 HP ?

there is approximately 35 lbs difference in the transmissions and it is mostly rotation weight...pick up a 727 drum..pick a 904 drum...

I took an identical car with same engine..and all....changed from a 727 to a 904....the 904 was at least .15 faster and almost 2 mph faster...

some people spend alot of money to go .15 faster..

some smart people that run SS/AH cars run 727 cases with 904 internals....why...cause they are lighter and take less HP to turn....and yes..those are expensive transmission...
 
there is approximately 35 lbs difference in the transmissions and it is mostly rotation weight...pick up a 727 drum..pick a 904 drum...

I took an identical car with same engine..and all....changed from a 727 to a 904....the 904 was at least .15 faster and almost 2 mph faster...

some people spend alot of money to go .15 faster..

some smart people that run SS/AH cars run 727 cases with 904 internals....why...cause they are lighter and take less HP to turn....and yes..those are expensive transmission...

This should probably be another thread....so I shall...
ian :)
 
lockup converter trannies are more efficient
manual trans are more efficient

the 904/727 type trans converters have a certain amount of slip
you can use different converters that are better for mileage or some that are better for racing etc.

really what you do depends on whether you are building for mileage or you are building a car for all out drag racing
 
is there anythig that one can do to better matters - i guess rebuild the motor to get more horsepower and add transmission upgrades - so then no matter what the tranny will still want that 25% of gaining hp from an engine modification

You're thinking and talking 25%, while the meaning is 25hp,,.. big difference
 
OK, I'll come back in if we are discussing this..

One of the "truism's" you hear early on in the MOPAR world is that the 727 trans takes 25 more horsepower just to turn vs the 904.

It is a no brainer that a 904 will take lass hp than a 727.....the 904 is lighter and has rotating mass to over come..but where did this 25 HP number come come from.

In a quarter mile, with tests with all other things being equal except the transmission, the "904 was at least .15 seconds faster and almost 2 mph faster"...

It is hard to take some lessons learned at the drag strip and convert them to everyday driving.

What I cannot visualize is putting a 727 on a bench and hooking a minimum of a 25 hp engine to it and the trans not spinning.

In mathematical terms, one horsepower is the power needed to move 550 pounds one foot in one second, or the power needed to move 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute.

I am not a mathematician but these don't seem to add up.

To muddy the waters a bit more, Ma Chrysler mated the /6 to a 727 when clearly if the above statement is true , the 904 should have been the choice.

Haven't found anything on the internet to prove this number but it seems to vary from 20 to 25+ depending on the writer...

It would be nice to put this one to bed..
 
is there anythig that one can do to better matters - i guess rebuild the motor to get more horsepower and add transmission upgrades - so then no matter what the tranny will still want that 25% of gaining hp from an engine modification

Using a good converter, not off the shelf.

Rollerization; good luck with the Easter egg hunt and cost though.

More power!
 
the hp to turn a 904 and 727 were published in a Hot Rod or Car Craft magazine about 20 yrs ago....it listed all popular transmissions and the HP required to turn them...

I am sorry you missed that issue........
 
Found this...

According Car Craft magazine, the following automatic transmissions cause the power losses bellow.

Powerglide - 18 hp
TH-350 - 36 hp
TH-400 - 44 hp
Ford C-6 - 55-60 hp
Ford C-4 - 28 hp
Ford FMX - 25 hp
Chrysler A904 - 24 hp
Chrysler 727 - 45 hp
 
Tony,

Good find. So what does those numbers actually mean ?

...that it takes 21 horse power (over what can turn a 904 over) to turn the 727 over in first gear ?
 
An interesting comment to this test..not from me

Its almost impossible to accurately answer this question. In the past some numbers were issued to it but how they came up with the numbers is beyond me. There are too many variables, including converter design , converter charge circuits, trans ratio , axle ratio, vehicle weight , motor max RPM, shift rpm.

Some transmissions in some applications will take more power to run but you can't just say its 20hp VS a glide, no way.

The losses will be greater if the parts used in the trans are a larger diameter , so all we can say for sure is the smaller the diameter of the parts used , the less power the transmission will require to run and thats about as far as it goes.

Don't assume that because one trans is heavier than another , that its all rotating weight either.

The powerglide is an efficient design and the internals come to speed progressively ,All 3 speeds have anti rotation to deal with (parts have to reverse then stop then start again) for a shift sequence and that takes time and power to do.
 
My advice is to:

deal-with-it.png
 
Deal with what ? Other than confusion...

Nerd, doesn't it sound just off that one would require a 45hp engine to turn a 727 over in 1st gear....??

Yeah, dazed and confused...
 
To measure loss, it is necessary to measure transmission input power and output power, the difference is the loss. Horsepower is: The product of torque and angular speed.
The formula is: HP = (torque in FT-LBS X RPM) divided by 5252. So the RPM and torque is measured on each end of transmission.

Most high schools in the USA offer college prep courses that include physics, a study of physics provides the understanding to reduce the confusion.
 
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