actual need for ballast resistor with electronic ignition?

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str12-340

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I have three LA small block engines in street driven cars. All 1970 Darts with factory wiring.

All use Pertronix Flame Thrower coils. The one that has an MSD system and the one that uses a Mopar electronic ignition distributor with and FBO brand ECU have both had the Ballast Resistor bypassed as directed by MSD and FBO.

The last car has a Mopar electronic ignition with a Mopar orange ECU that has the ballast resistor functioning in the system. I realize that the purpose of the ballast resistor is to reduce the voltage to the coil between Run and Start (although I can never remember which mode has the reduced voltage). I understood that this was originally done in points ignition systems to extend the life of the points. Why is it needed with electronic ignition? What are the potential issues if the resistor is, in effect, bypassed?

In a Chrysler wiring diagram which is the Start and Run circuit (in the FSM they are labelled ignition 1 & ignition 2). One is a brown wire to the ballast resistor and one is Blue (and then blue with a tracer between the bulkhead connector and the welded connection which also feeds the blue alternator field wire and the blue voltage regulator wire). Which is which?

Thanks for your help!
 
I converted this car to electronic ignition with a Direct Connection kit around 1983 and it has always had a 2 connection ballast resistor that Mopar supplied with the kit. I presume that the FBO ECU is designed for 12 volts as is the 6AL box in the MSD system.

Still hoping for confirmation that the brown wire is the 12 volt part of the system for starting and the blue wires are the run system. see description above...
 
I have three LA small block engines in street driven cars. All 1970 Darts with factory wiring.

All use Pertronix Flame Thrower coils. The one that has an MSD system and the one that uses a Mopar electronic ignition distributor with and FBO brand ECU have both had the Ballast Resistor bypassed as directed by MSD and FBO.

The last car has a Mopar electronic ignition with a Mopar orange ECU that has the ballast resistor functioning in the system. I realize that the purpose of the ballast resistor is to reduce the voltage to the coil between Run and Start (although I can never remember which mode has the reduced voltage). I understood that this was originally done in points ignition systems to extend the life of the points. Why is it needed with electronic ignition? What are the potential issues if the resistor is, in effect, bypassed?

In a Chrysler wiring diagram which is the Start and Run circuit (in the FSM they are labelled ignition 1 & ignition 2). One is a brown wire to the ballast resistor and one is Blue (and then blue with a tracer between the bulkhead connector and the welded connection which also feeds the blue alternator field wire and the blue voltage regulator wire). Which is which?

Thanks for your help!
Brown Wire is Start, 12 volts
Blue wire is Run. 12 volts to ballast resistor, but then the ballast resistor reduces voltage to the ignition coil primary positive by 3-4 volts.
ECU grounds coil and fires coil through grounding ignition coil primary negative.
With Electronic Ignition, the reduction in voltage to coil positive protects the coil ground circuit from burning up the transistor in the ECU.
 
Let's start in the 1960's. There is no electronic ignition from Chrysler yet. Points only, The ballast resistor reduces the voltage to the coil.

Now the factory Chrysler electronic ignition stars as standard in 1972. A 5 pin ECU and a dual ballast resistor. 1.2 ohm side for coil, 5 ohm side for ignition box.

Now in 70's direct connection (mopar perf later) sells performance electronic ignition with a 4 pin ECU amd a single ballast resistor for coil, 12 volts feeds to ECU on pin #1 from the Ignition 1 circuit. The only wire connected to the other side of the ballast resistor goes to the ignition coil. See wiring diagrams.

More reading here from mopar performance instructions. https://www.mymopar.com/downloads/elecignconv.pdf

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I have three LA small block engines in street driven cars. All 1970 Darts with factory wiring.

All use Pertronix Flame Thrower coils. The one that has an MSD system and the one that uses a Mopar electronic ignition distributor with and FBO brand ECU have both had the Ballast Resistor bypassed as directed by MSD and FBO.

The last car has a Mopar electronic ignition with a Mopar orange ECU that has the ballast resistor functioning in the system. I realize that the purpose of the ballast resistor is to reduce the voltage to the coil between Run and Start (although I can never remember which mode has the reduced voltage). I understood that this was originally done in points ignition systems to extend the life of the points. Why is it needed with electronic ignition? What are the potential issues if the resistor is, in effect, bypassed?

In a Chrysler wiring diagram which is the Start and Run circuit (in the FSM they are labelled ignition 1 & ignition 2). One is a brown wire to the ballast resistor and one is Blue (and then blue with a tracer between the bulkhead connector and the welded connection which also feeds the blue alternator field wire and the blue voltage regulator wire). Which is which?

Thanks for your help!

The single ballast resistor, or the ballast resistor half of a dual resistor, performs a similar function as in the contact points system with Chrysler Electronic Control Units (ECUs) whether a four-pin ECU or five-pin ECU. That is, it limits current through the series connected coil and switching power transistor in the ECU system, as with the series connected coil and points in the contact points system. The resistance increases as the current increases, which hears the resistor, in general due to engine speed increase. The increased resistance limits the current further protecting the coil and transistor or points. Both systems bypass the resistor during engine cranking. Voltage at the coil varies in relation to the current and resistance.

The Chrysler ECU employs timing and driver circuitry internally to switch a power transistor with “turns on and off”, similar to contact points, to switch the coil primary on and off, producing the secondary spark. The electrical current primary ignition path is from the battery through the bulkhead connections, through the ignition switch contacts, through the ballast resistor, through the switching transistor, then to ground. The power transistor mounted on the outside of the ECU case with a heat sink can sink more current than contact points. The dwell time of points that is adjusted by setting the point gap is controlled electronically within the ECU timing circuitry. The ECU mounts solidly to a body ground, both mechanically and electrically, and uses a molded five-pin connector to wire into the vehicle electrical system, ignition coil, and distributor.

When the engine is started, during “Ignition Start”, or "Ignition 2", the ballast resistor is bypassed, to provide the highest available voltage, while the key is held during cranking, ie. the brown wire. When the engine begins to run, and the ignition switch returns to "Ignition Run", or "Ignition 1", ie. the blue with tracer and blue wires. At this point, the ballast is initially cool and resistance is low. As the engine runs at low speeds with longer induction build and collapse times in the coil, the ballast heats up, resistance increases, and current through the coil and voltage applied drops, preventing coil overheating and reducing point arcing. At higher engine speeds, with lessened induction build and collapse times in the coil, the ballast cools, resistance lowers again, and more current and applied voltage for the coil is available for higher speed secondary circuit spark plug firing.

The primary ignition circuit wiring of the old point system was modified and expanded to include the ECU when Chrysler converted to electronic ignition. Although there are some wire color variations in production cars and trucks, the general color coding of the changed wiring, and that used in the Chrysler wiring harness kit, Chrysler P3690152, or Standard Motor Products S516, is as follows:
  • Connection to five ohm ballast resistor terminal - green with red tracer (not used with 4-pin ECUs).
  • Connection to Ignition Run circuit - blue with yellow tracer. Provides +12 volt power to the ECU.
  • Connection to ignition coil negative (-) terminal - black with yellow tracer.
  • Connection to distributor pickup coil 1/2 - grey.
  • Connection to distributor pickup coil 2/2 - black.
  • NOTE: Ground is provided by the case mount to body/engine ground.
A single, two terminal used with production ECUs since 1980, part number 4106340, 5206436, et.al., is 1.25 ohms ( 1.12-1.38 ohms). This resistor is a closed back, ceramic power resistor with different thermal properties than earlier single ballast resistors. The Chrysler ignition ballast resistor used in the 1960s through 1972 for point systems, part numbers 2095501, 2196316, or 2275590, is also an open back, ceramic power resistor. This ballast resistor measures 0.5 - 0.6 ohms af 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit and has specific, expected thermal design properties. The Chrysler P4120505 orange ECU is specified to use a 0.5-0.7 ohm ballast resistor with a production or similar coil, 1.3-1.8 ohms, good to 5500 RPM.

The primary, or compensating, side of the dual resistor initially used with the ECU is the same type as the earlier point systems with an open back, ceramic housed, wire wound nominal 0.55 ohm resistor in part number 3656199. This value was changed during 1975 production to 1.25 ohms with part number 3874767. The resistor performs the same thermal adjusted coil current/voltage stabilization as the single ballast resistor. The resistor also limits the current through the power transistor of the ECU, protecting it, similar to the same action with points.

The other side of the ceramic case dual ballast resistor houses an enclosed "non-thermal" auxiliary resistor which measures 4.75 - 5.75 ohms af 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit. This nominal, five ohm resistor is connected to the "fifth pin" of the ECU. Internal to the ECU, the auxiliary resistor connects to the collector lead of the driver transistor for the main power transistor and part of its biasing. It limits overall current from the 12 volt supply. The other four pins of the ECU connect to the dual lead of the distributor pickup coil, the 12 volt Ignition Run primary power, and the lead to the negative side of the coil for the coil switching action, similar to the connecting lead from the distributor points in the old system.

The same type of coil, such as part number 2495531, et.al. as used with the points system is also used in production with the ECU. The Chrysler 1960s - 1979 production coil resistance at 70-80 degrees Fahrenheit measures 1.6 - 1.79 ohms for the Prestolite 2444242 type coil and 1.34 - 1.55 ohms for the Essex 2444241 type coil. The total dynamic action with an ignition coil involves its total impedance, but the direct current (DC) limiting effect is based on its resistance. The combined total resistance of the coil, ballast resistor, and the marginal wiring, connections, and effective transistor resistance still add to about two ohms as it did with the point system. The ~two-three ohm total, which varies as the ballast resistor varies, limits the transistor and coil primary current to about four-six amps peak, although the transistor can actually sink more current. The Darlington pair power transistor mounted on the outside of the ECU case with a heat sink can potentially sink up to 10 amps.

Bypassing the ballast resistor can lead to over driving the ECU's switching transistor,and potentially the coil itself depending on the coil resistance and construction. The Pertronix Flame Thrower part number, 40011, specifies a primary resistance of 1.5 ohms, and that it can run without a ballast resistor regarding the coil itself. Running without a ballast resistor and assuming ~12 volts across the coil and the ECU switching transistor yields a current of ~8 amps which is at the upper end of the P4120505 transistor specifications. It might handle it okay for a while, but with extended use and heat, the ECU could fail.

NOTE: The foregoing discusses ratings and expectations with the original P4120505 ECU, and subsequent units built the same. Units made in recent years likely will not perform the same. OEM production Chrysler ECUs will perform similarly with regard to current and resistance ratings, and the original higher performance Direct Connection and Mopar Performance units, 3438850R, P3690011, P3690256, P3690256A, P3690256B, P4007298, P4120505, P4120534, P4120600, will perform at and above the level of P4120505. Aftermarket ECUs might vary in what current they can handle compared to original Chrysler units.
 
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ballast resistor is all about current control
current flow is dictated by total resistance of the circuit between + volts and ground.
its a series circuit. power supply connected to ballast resistor which is connected to coil which is connected to ground by the points or electronic switch

the relationship is not simple, once the system is in use, the coil's primary resistance will appear to change based on rpm, temperature, dwell, switching speed, etc

but ultimately most ignitions that use a ballast resistor limit the current flowing to 3-4 amps
which is low enough not to burn out the points/pertronix/ignition box but is high enough for that specific coil to do its job across its standard rpm range.
many ignitions that don't use a ballast but do use a 12 volt coil and points just have the resistance as part of the coil, not as a separate ballast resistor unit, these tend to get used on 4 cylinder engines so only have to do half the number of sparks in each cycle, so they can be a bit more leisurely about building a full magnetic field up .

basically your coil and the thing you use to switch it off and on, need to be a matched pair,
and a ballast resistor may or may not be used. the need is dictated by the specifics of the other 2 parts.

Dave
 
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Short answer: Ma Mopar's first take on an electronic ignition was back when "This design uses one less transistor!" meant major cost savings instead of ten cents per part. So it's a very simple design. The module behaves like a closed set of points until it gets a pulse from the distributor pick up. Then it "opens" to fire the coil for a few milliseconds before "closing" until it gets another pulse.

So, if you turn the key to run without the distributor turning, the ignition box will just act like a closed switch. It would just run all the current through waiting for a pulse that never comes, and get very hot in the process. So you put a ballast resistor inline to hold the current and heat to reasonable levels.

More modern ignition modules "keep the points open" until they read a signal from the distributor and adjust the dwell to limit current.
 
First, MSD has zero DC current through the coil. Completely different.

I would bet that modern E core coils have a completely different current curve than older "can" coils

"Current control" is surely the reason. It is called a ballast. it is not a plain resistor. Anything termed ballast is designed to stabilize and somewhat regulate current.

The only thing that I find odd about the Mopar system is the ign1 / ign2 circuit, BECAUSE, during start, you want a hot spark, and YES, the IGN2, JUST LIKE with breaker points, runs full battery voltage to the coil. HOWEVER, during cranking/ start, the ECU ONLY GETS A PIDDLY voltage backwards through the ballast!!! I have never figured out how that could work well, in a bad situation say, cold weather and a low battery.
 
GM HEI. The one good thing about the HEI as many of us have "thrown" them at our Mopars, is that the module itself has some sort of current control. They don't seem to be fussy at all about what kind of coil you use, or if you use a resistor/ ballast. I ran mine for an whole (hot summer), mostly as an experiment, with an OEM Mopar coil and NO ballast.
 

the HEI does do some limiting itself
and they seem to work on anything from about 9 volts up to 16

HEI has a maximum dwell time set as part of the circuit.
its a dwell time appropriate for high rpm use with an HEI coil.
because its maximum dwell is set to a time period necessary to do enough sparks for an 8 cylinder at high RPM, they need that coil to be FULL in a short, in fact very short, period of time
so the module is built to switch 7 or 8 amps.... double the current into coil primary over a normal ignition, and uses a precisely specified coil so it can build a magnetic field much much faster. (this brings with it some other problems...)

BUT the basic thorn in the side of all of this is
anything like low or mid rpm use, the kind of stuff you do around town. is going to have the coil ON for too long and getting very very very hot
so they limit the dwell at low RPM i.e make that very short time for "coil ON" even shorter

and if there is no RPM it switches the coil off.

it does this based on the peak to peak voltage difference seen from the pickup

i.e the pickup in the dizzy acts as a timed switching trigger, to trigger sparks, and the size of its signal, peak to peak, is used to dictate dwell.
small signal= limit dwell
large signal means set dwell to maximum

the maximum dwell was calculated based, on rpm range, and on the coil characteristics and the much bigger current that the system operates at

so whilst an HEI module will work with any coil
you get the best outcomes with an HEI coil and potentially an HEI pickup

fluke/luck means our mopar pickup does a reasonable job. but we won't necessarily get the same level of dwell control from our modules as a chevy does, because we are bodgeing two systems together

so when you get someone who says their HEI can't maintain spark at 5000 rpm and therefore HEI is crap... maybe they just have a mismatch between the module and the trigger, its probably running in dwell control mode even at high rpm, and its the trigger that's crap. stick one of those tiny chinese button magnets to the back of your trigger head and see if it gets better..... bigger magnetic field at the pickup will make the signal bigger....

the other thing it does is to switch into a kind of limp mode if the primary resistance of the coil is way way too much. it expects 0.7 ohm or thereabouts, whack in a 3 ohm 12 volt coil off a VW beetle and get quite poor performance... use a blaster 0.7 or 1.? ohm or similar and get OK performance.
The lucas DLB198 electronic coil was designed to be used with HEI on a jaguar. They are OK I have had decent service from them, but i prefer the laminated core coil off a mid 70s to early 80s chevy or ford i 6 truck.

Dave
 
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^^On the other side of the coin, some systems besides HEI, including the Mopar and some Fords and certainly the lame Jeep ?? Prestolite I've forgotten breakerless, THEY do not shut down the coil with key on/ engine stopped. So a ballast gives the coil and the switching transistor SOME respite.
 
GM HEI. The one good thing about the HEI as many of us have "thrown" them at our Mopars, is that the module itself has some sort of current control. They don't seem to be fussy at all about what kind of coil you use, or if you use a resistor/ ballast. I ran mine for an whole (hot summer), mostly as an experiment, with an OEM Mopar coil and NO ballast.
I have a two-wire ballast. In an emergency can I connect the two wires together to get me home, or what is the procedure? I do carry an extra in the trunk but just wondering.
 
In a Chrysler wiring diagram which is the Start and Run circuit (in the FSM they are labelled ignition 1 & ignition 2). One is a brown wire to the ballast resistor and one is Blue (and then blue with a tracer between the bulkhead connector and the welded connection which also feeds the blue alternator field wire and the blue voltage regulator wire). Which is which?
Ignition 1 is Run, and is blue or blue with trace. J2
J is used because I can be confused for a 1

Ignition 2 is for Start, and was brown, J3.
At some point in the early 1970s, the ignition connection to the coil was given brown insulation instead of blue. Regardless, it is the feed to the coil. When is engine starting J3 bypasses the ballast because system voltage is already low, and if anything starting requires more spark energy than running.

Why is it needed with electronic ignition? What are the potential issues if the resistor is, in effect, bypassed?
Its still needed so the coil gets the right amount of electrical energy to saturate.
If the coil was designed to run at 14 V (more resistance in the primary winding) then it would not work so great during startup.
Additionally using the ballast resistor (rather than resistance wire bundled in the harness) provides a little more cooling, especially at higher speed. This also helps the coil.

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When is engine starting J3 bypasses the ballast because system voltage is already low, and if anything starting requires more spark energy than running.
Starting sequence illustrated here
11 Volts during starting is good.
9.5 Volts at the battery during start is generally considered the minimum.

Once the coil has developed its max energy level, any additional current flowing though is just generating waste heat. This can damage the coil. HEI has a current controller. The Ford Duraspark and Chrysler ECU regulated current by controlling voltage.
 
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