Affordable Handling Upgrades?

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jalake

jalake

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My '71 Dart has a heck of a time maintaining course. Lots of steering correction. I'm hoping to make it my daily driver, but right now it's a little stressful in traffic.

I've had it for about a week now and I'm assuming that aside from regular maintenance, everything is essentially stock.

I don't have lots of cash on hand at the moment (like everyone else) So I was wondering what the most affordable thing I can do to achieve the most noticeable improvement in handling.

Ideally something that I can build upon and make incremental improvements.

All advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

-J
 
If you've had it for a short time the first thing I would do is inspect the upper and lower ball joints for excessive wear or play. Check all the tie rod ends as well, they could be causing some of the issues if they are worn. Pitman arm and idler arm need to be checked.

A simple check is with the car parked, how much can you move the steering wheel left to right before the tires start to move? too much and the steering box may need a rebuild.

Upper and lower control arm bushings need to be checked and replaced if too rotted and worn.

I guess if you were looking for an easy answer there isn't one until you check and confirm the condition of everything above first. if everything is worn a little then as a whole steering while driving will feel very sloppy.

Once any issues are fixed your car should have an alignment and it will track straight.

I hope this helps. :)
 
Thanks, that does help. I think I'll just have to pony up for a front end kit. I'm leaning towards the PST polygraphite kit, any others that I should consider?

Thanks again.

-J
 
Unless ANY of the bushings has been replaced "in the last couple of years" I would just ASSUME that ALL bushings need replacement.
 
I'd take it to a reputable alignment shop and
allow them to do an alignment.
If it they are unable to because of worn parts,
they will tell you what needs replaced and from
there you can make an informed decision about
a total overhaul or minor repairs.
There are several threads on here about alignment specs
or just ask and someone will give you advice or,
P.M. me if you wish and I will make a recommendation.

The short answer is.... if all is in good repair and alignment done,
A good set of shocks and tires IMHO.
 
longarm said:
I'd take it to a reputable alignment shop and
allow them to do an alignment.
If it they are unable to because of worn parts,
they will tell you what needs replaced and from
there you can make an informed decision about
a total overhaul or minor repairs.
There are several threads on here about alignment specs
or just ask and someone will give you advice or,
P.M. me if you wish and I will make a recommendation.

The short answer if all is in good repair and alignment done,
A good set of shocks and tires IMHO.
Click to expand...
:eek:ops:
if your steering box has a lot of play, you can back the jam nut off on top of the box, and tighten the set screw down to take out some of the play, but be advised this will eventually make it worse if you do it a lot, or go too much at one time. (short term fix). also be sure to not let the set screw back off when you loosen the jam nut!-----bob
 
Thanks for all the advise everyone. I just ran and got some gas and groceries. The more I become accustomed to it, the more I think that I need all bushings and some shocks. Steering is reasonably responsive for a stock gear box.

I've got a local Mopar guy whose going to come take a look at it next week and make an informed assessment.
 
jalake said:
Thanks for all the advise everyone. I just ran and got some gas and groceries. The more I become accustomed to it, the more I think that I need all bushings and some shocks. Steering is reasonably responsive for a stock gear box.

I've got a local Mopar guy whose going to come take a look at it next week and make an informed assessment.
Click to expand...

"...and knowing is half the battle!" Let us know what he finds.
 
One a the things I've noticed is even with all good bushings n ball joints n tie rods, dodge power steering is just to dam sensitve i shimmed the valve in the pump n it helped i am goin to add another shim or two cause it still is a little sensitive at high speeds with the big steering wheel
 
Actually, the larger the steering wheel, the LESS sensitive it will be

LOL...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2uAibY-dOs"]Volvo PV Brazuca Racing test and tune - YouTube[/ame]
 
Speaking of steering wheels, I think mine is missing something. Like a center cover perhaps. I'll take a pic tomorrow.
 
side note, I drove the Dart into work today for the first time. I'm getting used to the little quirks (and the contrast between my usual car and this). Still takes a little time to stop and a lot more concentration that I'm used to applying at 7am, but pretty sweet none the less.
 
67Dart273 said:
Actually, the larger the steering wheel, the LESS sensitive it will be

LOL...

That is weird, not one person suggested a steering box rebuild because the adjustment nut and screw on the top does nothing for the bushing side to side slop. When the bushing that goes bad at the other end of the screw. I'm no expert, but my Barracuda is like a game of table tennis on the road. The screw did nothing but tighten the steering drag (how hard it was to turn the wheel and reduced the steering wheel return. It still kind of drove itself a little left then a little right while going straight. I was so frustrated I ordered a Firm feel box and it is due in on Friday! Very excited. I hope a good alignment is all you need. I rebuilt the 66 front end last year with a proper alignment and last week replaced the springs and torsion bars with all new from Chrysler (nice Mexico product) and it handles awesome except for the table tennis effect. After the new box it goes back for a new alignment. As for the above quote I went to a smaller steering wheel in the Demon and the steering actually was a bit tighter due to a smaller ratio; is this what the quote means?. The Barracuda has a huge wheel and steers currently with one finger.

Best of luck and keep us posted dude!
Joe
Click to expand...
 
Tires and sway bars, then shocks and torsion bars.
 
Get a good, good good alignment, Again a good shop will tell what parts are wore out, Did I say a good alignment you wont believe how nice it will drive with a good alignment and good parts up front
 
Syleng1 said:
...........That is weird, not one person suggested a steering box rebuild because the adjustment nut and screw on the top does nothing for the bushing side to side slop................. When the bushing that goes bad at the other end of the screw.

.....................As for the above quote I went to a smaller steering wheel in the Demon and the steering actually was a bit tighter due to a smaller ratio; is this what the quote means?. The Barracuda has a huge wheel and steers currently with one finger.
Click to expand...


I guess sometimes we 'assume' things. I usually "assume" that guys have the smarts to get two people, one wiggling, the wheel back and forth, and the other down under, looking for play, play in everything that does and should, or does and should not, move. Tie rod ends, ball joints, idler arm, everything

So far as the wheel, this is simple. A longer wheel is just like a longer ratchet handle. A longer "handle" gives you more leverage and makes a nut easier to turn, but you have to move the handle further to turn the nut a given amount.

A smaller steering wheel is just like installing a quicker ratio steering box.
 
So here's the current plan:

Step 1: Brake inspection / maintain the drum setup as necessary
Step 2: Complete OE front end kit and new shocks (looking for recommendations)
Step 3: Subframe connectors
Step 4: Leaf springs (new? recurve?)
Step 5: Front sway bar.

That's it for the near field. Then I'll start to save money again for disc brake conversion. Not sure if I want to keep the SBP, or do the BBP switch as that will involve more $$ to get new wheels/tires and a solution for the rear end too.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Oh, the steering wheel is a Rimblow that's been disconnected and had a center button cut in to use the horn instead. I forgot to take a pic.
 
Personally, "the most bang for the buck" and "the most immediate needs"

subframe connectors are a complete waste of time and money. Those are for when you have "Most Other Stuff Done" and are looking for things to optimize

People would argue this, but I also believe you might improve handling by getting stiffer front T bars instead of adding a front sway bar, but that might be a tossup.

Here's the thing you seem to be missing.

As Carl Sagan would say

Boolians and boolians of these cars went down the road......down the freeway.......STRAIGHT down the road and freeway, with slant sixes and with 318s, and without sway bars, and they did it without the people behind the wheel fighting with the steering wheel. They did this for thousands and thousands of miles, so why can't you?

The answers are IN THE BASICS

Tires.................You need good tires without abnormal wear, and this can be a huge factor

Front end bushings, ball joints and other moving pieces cannot be worn and have play. This right here is the very very basics THE basics

Broken, bent. You can't have things like the T bar sockets stripped, rusted, broken, or suspension members bent from striking fermented dinosaur eggs

Alignment. The front end must be in alignment.

Once you have the above IN PLACE, THEN you can worry about sway bars, frame connectors and other add ons.
 
Absolutely I'm with ya. I've actually got pretty decent tires on there at the moment. So I'll add:

Step 2.5: Good alignment after the front end kit install.

... I was thinking that I'd do new torsion bars w/ the front end kit. Any size recommendation?

Bare in mind that the steps I have up will take a few months easy. I'm going to attempt to get steps 1-2.5 done ASAP though.
 
67Dart273 said:
Personally, "the most bang for the buck" and "the most immediate needs"

subframe connectors are a complete waste of time and money. Those are for when you have "Most Other Stuff Done" and are looking for things to optimize

People would argue this, but I also believe you might improve handling by getting stiffer front T bars instead of adding a front sway bar, but that might be a tossup.

Here's the thing you seem to be missing.

As Carl Sagan would say

Boolians and boolians of these cars went down the road......down the freeway.......STRAIGHT down the road and freeway, with slant sixes and with 318s, and without sway bars, and they did it without the people behind the wheel fighting with the steering wheel. They did this for thousands and thousands of miles, so why can't you?

The answers are IN THE BASICS

Tires.................You need good tires without abnormal wear, and this can be a huge factor

Front end bushings, ball joints and other moving pieces cannot be worn and have play. This right here is the very very basics THE basics

Broken, bent. You can't have things like the T bar sockets stripped, rusted, broken, or suspension members bent from striking fermented dinosaur eggs

Alignment. The front end must be in alignment.

Once you have the above IN PLACE, THEN you can worry about sway bars, frame connectors and other add ons.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I recommended, Alignment, Tires, Shocks then
everything else.
Wheel balance is also very important to keep the
tire in contact with the road and not bouncing forcing
the suspension to try and compensate and control.
 
jalake said:
So here's the current plan:

Step 1: Brake inspection / maintain the drum setup as necessary
Step 2: Complete OE front end kit and new shocks (looking for recommendations)
Step 3: Subframe connectors
Step 4: Leaf springs (new? recurve?)
Step 5: Front sway bar
Click to expand...

Step 1 and 2 good to start of with a solid suspension,
Why do you think you need springs before torsion bars,
Really as long as your car never bottoms out you can set up handling with just sway bars but it easier to spread the load between the two, the front end does 80% of the work I'd do front sway bar and torsion bars then work work on the back to make the car neutral no over or understeer or just a slight oversteer. Some setups don't even need a rear sway bar. Lowering the car helps a lot but requires more spring rate so it don't bottom out and don't go more than 1.5% rake.

After 1 and 2 on your list I'd go with tire cause tires make the most difference, big and sticky, then sway bars then torsion bars leave leafs to last to see what you need to balance it out.
 
jalake said:
... I was thinking that I'd do new torsion bars w/ the front end kit. Any size recommendation?.
Click to expand...

Depends on you

I "found out" by complete accident that I "wanted" way way stiffer than I thought I wanted. My 67 of course had whatever the factory 273 were

I had bought a junker that came with ? .9" bars. (unknown aftermarket)

These bars turned out to be "just right." And here I thought I'd been happy with factory 340 bars, etc.

On my rear springs, I had junked out two later cars for parts. I tore down my original rear springs, and one set of the junkers. I combined two sets, putting the longest leafs of the two sets together, with, I think, one more leaf total than what I started. These turned out to be "just right" and it was all completely accidental.
 
Using Moog offset bushings in the UCA's arranged to get more positive caster is my favorite low buck trick. You cannot get any appreciable caster using stock bushings. Running 2* caster makes a big difference in how the car tracks. Count on the LCA bushings and probably the strut rod bushings as must replace items. Those are old rubber bushings. The tie rods and ball joints I do on an as needed basis. Just my opinions.
 
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