AR-15s
- Thread starter DodgeLad
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gzig5
Well-Known Member
If you are at all mechanically inclined you can put the lower together yourself and plop a pre-built upper on top and save a hundred or two. You only need the FFL transaction on the lower. I actually build my uppers too now, including chambering the barrels. My first one I bought a stripped Rock River Arms lower and a parts kit and then put an upper on it from White Oak Armory. Guaranteed to shoot better than you can. If you just want it to go bang and hit a can out to 200 yards, just about any of them will do that. I've had good luck with PSA, Colt is fine but your are paying a premium for a name, not quality IMO.
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My first 2 AR's were Colts. Bought it in 1977. Nothing else on the market at that time.
General manager for a chain of Guns stores in the 80'S, the heyday of Colts, H&K, etc... Have owned many AR platform rifles in the last 45 years and the current, major names build excellent quality arms. Todays materials and CNC machining makes it hard to screw up. Colt has a Service Department for returns just like everyone else.
Like any other major purchase, get opinions but rely on your own research. Tons of info on the web.
Colts has changed hands many times since then and is no longer the supplier of rifles to the Military. It lost that contract years ago. The military went to FN .
CZ recently acquired Colt who was in trouble again.
General manager for a chain of Guns stores in the 80'S, the heyday of Colts, H&K, etc... Have owned many AR platform rifles in the last 45 years and the current, major names build excellent quality arms. Todays materials and CNC machining makes it hard to screw up. Colt has a Service Department for returns just like everyone else.
Like any other major purchase, get opinions but rely on your own research. Tons of info on the web.
Colts has changed hands many times since then and is no longer the supplier of rifles to the Military. It lost that contract years ago. The military went to FN .
CZ recently acquired Colt who was in trouble again.
Good afternoon from Northeast Arkansas Ron, I wounder if you could steer me in the right direction for a 9mm rifle that will shoot the same ammunition as my 9mm hand gun ? Can't spend a bunch but I could and would buy used, would you recommend one for me pleases please?
Thank you for your valuable time Ron.
memike
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
I wish it was hard to screw up. In fact it's very easy. If anything, the over-reliance on CNC and multi-turn machines has driven the quality of certain parts into the ground. If it was 'easy', our reject rate wouldn't be 80% and we wouldn't need 100% inspection just to keep our assemblers busy stocking orders.
There's a major difference in quality from PSA up to Colt and onto the boutique builders above that.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Great advice - there's an excise tax on assembled firearms. 11% I believe. That means that by buying the upper and lower separate you can save 11% right off the top. Technically you're supposed to pay that 11% yourself, but we were all supposed to pay our own sales tax on all internet transactions too..
Based on an extensive first-hand experience with inspecting parts. Colt does a way above average job of holding the actual print tolerances. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I've found a Colt part truly out of spec. It helps that they developed the prints and manufacturing process for all the parts in the first place.
DodgeLad
Skipped the Light Fandango
Just an aside, reading bad stuff about contacting Colt support.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Look up when they were in receivership. For a couple years they had little staff, and were relocating too if I remember right. Things have since improved, but they've never been top of the heap for responsive customer support. They'll eventually get it fixed, but it often takes much longer and more effort than necessary.
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
@memike what are your goals for a 9mm rifle ?
That cartridge is a hand gun cartridge and as such is limited
Of course, they make 9mm long guns (at least one of our members has a kel-tec sub-2000 and i believe he likes it)
I actually looked at one with the idea of putting down coyotes at 200 yards and didn't think it would be up for the task
@DodgeLad
I guess we know which one is you now
That cartridge is a hand gun cartridge and as such is limited
Of course, they make 9mm long guns (at least one of our members has a kel-tec sub-2000 and i believe he likes it)
I actually looked at one with the idea of putting down coyotes at 200 yards and didn't think it would be up for the task
@DodgeLad
I guess we know which one is you now
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I own and operate a firearms training center and have been a firearms instructor for a very long time. I also work on a public range as a Safety Officer. Translated I get to see a very wide spectrum of ARs being tested in our classes and at the range, from home built to the latest Wilson Combat luxury version. As a result I can certainly tell you if some one shows up rocking a Colt I do know for a fact that I will not have any function issues with that shooter. Many others we spend some time clearing malfunctions. By no means am I saying Colts are infallible just that they are reliable provided they get a little oil once in awhile.As a sponsored shooter I compete with ARs and am in fact the reigning Champion for multiple years. I spend a lot of time competing against all manner of ARs, I do not shoot a colt (now) I rock a Daniel Defense. Plus side the Colt will hold its value remarkably well. I would not hesitate to shoulder a Colt anytime anywhere.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
This matches my experience with customer service at my company. The more 'marketing fluff' we see in the parts list (nickel boron, nitride, adjustable, modular, enhanced, silent, super, etc) the more malfunctions they seem to encounter. The AR is a pretty good platform when built to the numbers. There's places for new technology to make it perform certain tasks better, but when people take the 'kitchen sink' approach it ends in ruin.
Plus, lots of aftermarket offerings like nitride coatings only exist because find a good chrome shop (thanks EPA!) is tough. We lost more parts due to bad chrome than any other outside operation. The next worst is heat-treat for carriers, then anodize.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
The VAST majority of AR issues are lubrication related. The whole world has been brainwashed that lubricant attracts dirt, which is will. But the weapon will run dirty and wet long before it will run somewhat dirty and dead dry.
I’ve taken guys out to the range to show them that their issues were lube related. Two 30 round mags and they would have issues. Lube the weapon and it would run.
Here is a Tier 1 operator proving these weapons will run wet. I can promise you they won’t run dry.
I’ve taken guys out to the range to show them that their issues were lube related. Two 30 round mags and they would have issues. Lube the weapon and it would run.
Here is a Tier 1 operator proving these weapons will run wet. I can promise you they won’t run dry.
Mike, I bought one of these and I love it. I'm sure there will be opposing opinions, but for what I wanted it's perfect. It will fit in my backpack folded and you can run 30 round Glock mags in it. Anything out to 100 yards is pretty doable, I have hit steel at 200 yards but it takes some serious compensating, lol. Keltec's customer service is top notch too.
I was lucky to find one 2nd gen NIB in 9mm at a gun show for 360 bucks, I see they are substantially more now.
SUB2000 Rifle | Ergonomic | 9mm or .40 Caliber Rifle | KelTec
Let the poopooing begin, lol.
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Hah! No poo poo here, why just last weekend I was ringing steel at 200 yards with my 9mm, in front of a whole herd of folks. Range had a tall back stop so it was easy to have reference hold overs. I was not the only one by any means. Oh wait you guys were talking rifles, my bad. We were using our EDC pistols. Hehehehe
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Larry is a great dude. Really knows his stuff, and in-person is one of the most easy going dudes ever.
The video was kind of dumb, but proves the point: dry is even dumber. The only reason the video is kind of dumb is because the claim of over-lubrication has to do with stuff sticking to it (like you said), but the vid never addresses that really.
The bigger problem with lube is what people use. The military issues CLP, which when it gets old will become stickier than it needs to be. Regular 10w30 will work great in almost every firearm, and rarely will it attract junk that can cause an issue. There's only a few that require specialty greases, but us peasants don't get to own them anyway (MK14's and M134's are top of the list for 'specialty' lube). Even in those cases it's been found that more is always better. Forgotten weapons (Ian is another great member of the gun community) has done plenty of informal 'mud tests' that show the concerns about debris ingress on an AR are mostly overblown.
Dripping oil is really only inconvenient, it never hurts operation (unless maybe it splatters your optic or NVGs). Too little will jam a gun in a hurry. If you over-apply, the gun becomes damn near self cleaning! Unless suppressed, then you're dealing with sludge no matter what...
The problem with the AR market is that lots of companies advertise 'spec' stuff that just isn't, because it has a 'mil spec coating' on a junk part. MIL-DTL-16232 is technically 'mil spec', but is just phosphate and doesn't make a trigger the proper hardness, material, or even ensure that it complies with the x-ray requirements for MIL castings. Sadly, there's few ways for the general public to find out 'how close' to spec their purchases are except to buy from good sources.
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We need a double agree button.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Keltec sucks!
I mean, they do, but their sub2000 is probably one of the things they got more right than wrong. Probably a really great and cheapish way to own a 9mm carbine.
Glock mags are probably the absolute worst thing anyone could want to run in a carbine, but at the same time it makes sense if you run glocks for handguns. But within the gun world "does it take glock mags" is a oft repeated comment used to disparage the unwashed masses that want all kinds of dumb guns that serve no real purpose (the sub2000 isn't one of them IMO, btw).
The better mags would be mp5 mags, or even greasegun and uzi mags for carbines - and most people could probably afford to buy 2-3 of them since these types of carbines are not fighting weapons anyway. They're range toys, or backpacking guns.
Personally, I'd be looking for a used Marlin camp carbine in 9mm. They're stupid simple, reliable, light, and every one I've ever shot could easily hit an apple sized target at 100 yards if the shooter wasn't brain damaged.
gzig5
Well-Known Member
I kick myself thinking about all the Marlin Camp Carbines I walked past for CHEAP money back in the day and then see what they bring now when found for sale. I'm on the prowl for one in 45acp that I don't have to spend a week's wages to bring home.
340six
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CMMG RESOLUTE 9MM Mk4 the model with conversion mags. Not the COLT or Glock mags.
The radical delayed blowback makes it one of the best AR 9mm out there. Hard the beat in a PCC unless you spend a ton.
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Phreakish
Well-Known Member
I hadn't priced one in a decade. I'm afraid to look... The internet has ruined gun prices, LOL.
I walked into my local store a few years back and scored an old AR Sales Co M1A for $700 because it had no magazine. It's all GI M14 parts on a high quality receiver that was one of the first semi-auto versions made. They only did a few hundred, and now they're collectors items apparently. Better than the reproduction or chinese M14 parts in most M1A's available today, so there's no way I'm letting it go!
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
CMMG is a decent company, and their radial delayed blowback is an excellent design. For an AR patterend pistol carbine, I wouldn't go with anything else. Quieter when suppressed (due to delayed blowback), and far cleaner operation too. But I'd have to have mine in 10mm!
Most do, but this particular PCC was the only one that fit gray man.
What's a Glock, lol?
Treblig
Well-Known Member
I have a 9mm CZ Scorpion and a Rattler that can shoot 300 blk out and 5.56. They have been very reliable. I prefer these guns for the folding stock and portablity. I have always stayed away from AR 15s because of the non folding stock. But if AR15 is what you like then that's what you'll get. Transfer fees are only 40 bucks.
DodgeLad
Skipped the Light Fandango
I guess we know which one is you now
lol, haven't told my wife yet, but she knows I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
I guess I'm an AK sort of guy buying an AR. I don't do much maintenance and cleaning, never have.
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