are oversize cam bolts for caster adjustment availible?

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73 Plymouth Duster

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I have a 73 Duster and I just put on brand new Cragars with BFG's. Got a lifetime alignment at Firestone and they got it all aligned minus the passenger side camber. They showed me under the car where they were bottomed out on the lobe but it was still cambered top side in .9 degrees so the inner tread will wear.

They say there is an overside bolt eccentric kit you can buy and install that will give them more adjustment power, I don't know where to find them do you guys?

*front end has all been redone, bushings and all*
 
So to get the oversize adjustment I would need to replace the upper bushings again? There is no other way? I was gonna take it to a different firestone for grins and have them do it (lifetime alignments and on a Sunday so who cares) just to see if a different guy at a different time and manage to dial it in a little better. I think -.05 degrees would be good with a 1/8in toe in. I also have 2.0 degrees of positive caster so that's good too!
 
I have a 73 Duster and I just put on brand new Cragars with BFG's. Got a lifetime alignment at Firestone and they got it all aligned minus the passenger side camber. They showed me under the car where they were bottomed out on the lobe but it was still cambered top side in .9 degrees so the inner tread will wear.

They say there is an overside bolt eccentric kit you can buy and install that will give them more adjustment power, I don't know where to find them do you guys?

*front end has all been redone, bushings and all*

You can go out and pick up a set of Hotchkis adjustable strut rods. They will give you so much more positive castor, that you will easily be able to tip in the top of that tire and get your camber squared away.
 
Now I like the idea of the strut rods...changing the upper bushings was solo not fun.
One more thing I should probably confess too, when I redid the front end I actually didn't change the strut rod bushings...they seemed fine. Can putting in brand new bushings help me out? if so what brand?
 
Frankly, changing upper bushings might be easier than pulling the strut rods. Hard to say. This is "no big deal."

You jack it up and support the lower control arm. The upper arm will have no strain on it. Separate the upper ball joint from the spindle, and simply remove the upper adjust bolts. Whether you change strut bushings or upper A arm bushings, you still need to dick with the upper arm adjustments to set caster camber "again."

You can MAKE what you need to change them yourself

Buzz around in this thread for awhile:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=58818

here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970076957&postcount=163

My meager attempt at a homemade A arm bushing tool.

Got a steel pipe coupler. These are normally used on the ends of 20' lengths of pipe for thread protection. Around here, only malleable iron couplers are used operationally.

I clamped it in my Drill / Mill and cut a notch for clearance. You don't need a mill, you can do this with a hacksaw, as it's not critical

The bolt is a scrap of 1/2" allthread.

I bought some (called locally) "flat plate washers." These are not only very large OD, like a fender washer, they are thick as can be, maybe 3/16" ? "I used two" LOL

I could've gotten the new ones in, but the arms really should be cleaned up

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You cannot install over sized cams even if they were made. The adjustment is limited by the slots in the upper control arm brackets. Larger cams will not make a difference. Use the offset upper control arm bushings as recommended, OR replace the upper control arms with some tubular arms that have additional caster mad into them.
 
Not sure this could affect the issue. Don't know your car condition but I'd guess your control arm supports are in good shape where they mount to the frame. I've seen several rusted out there.
 
One more thing I should probably confess too, when I redid the front end I actually didn't change the strut rod bushings...they seemed fine. Can putting in brand new bushings help me out? if so what brand?
If the forward part of the bushing was squished/soft/cracked, it could allow the LCA to move/angle back a bit and make the caster more negative. I personally would not leave them as-is since they can effect caster, and to make the whole set-up as solid as possible, but that is not proof that it is a problem.

Replacing would be 'easy' only if you can get the strut rod out without removing the LCA too; service procedures are to to remove them together, I do believe; maybe someone has succeeded at the rods alone. At least you don't have to remove the LCA bushing again.....
 
Hmm valid point, I guess undoing the upper control arm would be easier than the strut rod. last time to get the upper bushings out I used a vice, right size socket, and a propane torch and they popped right out
 
The strut rods should not be used to adjust caster.

Strut rods are supposed to be adjusted so that the LCA moves freely. You can use adjustable strut rods to pull the LCA's forward and increase caster, but that's not how they're supposed to be used and it could cause premature wear on the LCA bushings and pins, not to mention ball joints and other wearing suspension parts.

Now, if you have old strut rods with wiped out bushings, putting in new strut rods and adjusting them properly will probably get you more positive caster. But only if your current strut rods are NOT adjusted properly.

My point here is, do not just buy adjustable strut rods and use them to set your caster. If you get adjustable strut rods and set them up properly, you may in fact get extra positive caster. But that would only happen if your current strut rods are not set up properly. If your strut rods are in fact where they're supposed to be now, changing to adjustable strut rods won't change a thing.

Sounds to me like you need to 1. find a shop that actually knows how to align an old Mopar, because your tech doesn't have any idea what he's talking about 2. Align the car to specs for radial tires and not the factory specs "in the computer" 3. Install offset UCA bushings and check to make sure you don't have any other suspension problems, like broken welds on the LCA pivot housings in the K frame.
 
Before the offset bushing came around there were some special bolts available. Not oversized but undercut at ends to allow more travel in the mount. Strange looking pieces. I don't know if those are still available or not.
 
You cannot install over sized cams even if they were made. The adjustment is limited by the slots in the upper control arm brackets. Larger cams will not make a difference. Use the offset upper control arm bushings as recommended, OR replace the upper control arms with some tubular arms that have additional caster mad into them.

this ^^^


here's an article about how & why they help:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...ive_camber_alignment_corrective_control_arms/
 
Okay thanks. For BFG radial TAs I was going to use 2-3 degrees positive caster, -.5 degrees camber and 1/8th inch toe in. Are there any objections to those specs?
 
Okay thanks. For BFG radial TAs I was going to use 2-3 degrees positive caster, -.5 degrees camber and 1/8th inch toe in. Are there any objections to those specs?

Sounds right to me. If your steering components are new, you can use less toe-in, typically 1/16". But between 1/16" and 1/8" is a good place to be. -.5º camber is a good for a street car, it will improve handling but won't cause any grief with tire wear. +2 to +3º caster is fine, for manual steering you don't want more than that anyway. You can use more with power steering, but if you're just using offset bushings you probably won't be able to get more than +3 anyway.
 
Get as much Positive caster that it will allow(set caster 1st!) then adjust your camber. -.5* should be fine. If you have to give back some of the caster to achieve the desired camber that's ok. The Camber adjustment is more critical since it's a wearing angle & caster is not. Just try to keep the caster within a 1/2* split side to side to avoid pulling. Lastly adjust Toe 0 to 1/8 in.
Remember to only put the offset bushing in 1 side of the arm & position them correctly so that it will allow for the additional caster.
 
The strut rods should not be used to adjust caster.

Strut rods are supposed to be adjusted so that the LCA moves freely. You can use adjustable strut rods to pull the LCA's forward and increase caster, but that's not how they're supposed to be used and it could cause premature wear on the LCA bushings and pins, not to mention ball joints and other wearing suspension parts.

Now, if you have old strut rods with wiped out bushings, putting in new strut rods and adjusting them properly will probably get you more positive caster. But only if your current strut rods are NOT adjusted properly.

My point here is, do not just buy adjustable strut rods and use them to set your caster. If you get adjustable strut rods and set them up properly, you may in fact get extra positive caster. But that would only happen if your current strut rods are not set up properly. If your strut rods are in fact where they're supposed to be now, changing to adjustable strut rods won't change a thing.

Sounds to me like you need to 1. find a shop that actually knows how to align an old Mopar, because your tech doesn't have any idea what he's talking about 2. Align the car to specs for radial tires and not the factory specs "in the computer" 3. Install offset UCA bushings and check to make sure you don't have any other suspension problems, like broken welds on the LCA pivot housings in the K frame.

I don't agree with most of these comments. My lower control arms move freely throughout nearly the entire range of adjustment of my Hotchkis adjustable strut rods. All the way up and down, in other words they move freely through their full range of motion until you get all the way to the end of the adjustments of the strut rods, forward or back.

Telling people that if their strut rods were correct in the first place is fantasy! They are a compromise from the factory so little old ladies can park these cars in parking lots easier. In stock form, they wander all over the highway. The factory strut rods are almost never the correct length for any type of performance or modern driving, and need the adjustment to allow the lower control arm to move forward in many cases, not all. Yes, this can result in increased caster.

I had firm feel tubular upper control arms on my '68 a-body. I was told by my alignment guy that the most positive caster I could get without starting to increase the camber or start to bring in the top of the wheels was .5 degree positive camber. My strut rods are straight, all my suspension rebuilt with quality components and I still couldn't get more than .5 degrees of positive caster without gaining excessive camber.

Once I installed the Hotchkis adjustable strut rods and verified that the lower control arm was not binding while the torsion bar was out, I was amazed at how far the lower control arm can freely move through its range of motion. Can you take it to far, of course, but with my lower control arms set-up with the Hotchkis measurement, my car now handles like it is on rails, tracks down the road way better, and all I did was a driveway alignment. Once I get my motor and transmission swap done, I'll take the car in and have it properly aligned.

Adjustable strut rods are an amazing item when used in the right application, Mopars happen to be one of those applications!
 
I agree with jbc426. I ran into the same probs on my 67 and installed adjustable strut rods from RMS and it was like a totally different car. The car was un- drivable above 10mph with every single piece of the suspension being brand new...After the adjustable strut rods it was a car on rails.
 
Okay good to know, like I said all my suspension pieces are redone and new bushings and the thing tracks straight and handles fine. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" but I'm not sure if this is broke or not, I just dug out the final alignment details from Firestone. (All in degrees obviously.)
--------------LEFT-----RIGHT
TOE_______.14_____.10
CAMBER____.6______-.9
CASTER____2.0______2.2

So from what I understand toe is fine, caster is fine unless I can get a little more (I have power steering) but the camber isn't...I thought they were both negative but only the right one is and from what the alignment guy was saying it's too much and I needed to fix upper bushings to get it in range.
 
I have a 73 Duster and I just put on brand new Cragars with BFG's. Got a lifetime alignment at Firestone and they got it all aligned minus the passenger side camber. They showed me under the car where they were bottomed out on the lobe but it was still cambered top side in .9 degrees so the inner tread will wear.

They say there is an overside bolt eccentric kit you can buy and install that will give them more adjustment power, I don't know where to find them do you guys?

*front end has all been redone, bushings and all*

Not trying to be a smart *** here but if camber is off on one side it is not aligned...these kind of statements are comical....sort of like the "rust-free" cars that you can see thru the quarter panels...if they are telling you to install oversize eccentric kit on an old Mopar I would STRONGLY suggest you find another shop to do the alignment.....
 
Well I meant that meaning the rest of the alignment went well and had no issue.
I can't or rather won't at this point, I paid $200 for lifetime alignments and any Firestone.
That's why I was thinking of taking it to the other Firestone shop in town and see if they get any better luck with it.
 
I don't agree with most of these comments. My lower control arms move freely throughout nearly the entire range of adjustment of my Hotchkis adjustable strut rods. All the way up and down, in other words they move freely through their full range of motion until you get all the way to the end of the adjustments of the strut rods, forward or back.

Telling people that if their strut rods were correct in the first place is fantasy! They are a compromise from the factory so little old ladies can park these cars in parking lots easier. In stock form, they wander all over the highway. The factory strut rods are almost never the correct length for any type of performance or modern driving, and need the adjustment to allow the lower control arm to move forward in many cases, not all. Yes, this can result in increased caster.

I had firm feel tubular upper control arms on my '68 a-body. I was told by my alignment guy that the most positive caster I could get without starting to increase the camber or start to bring in the top of the wheels was .5 degree positive camber. My strut rods are straight, all my suspension rebuilt with quality components and I still couldn't get more than .5 degrees of positive caster without gaining excessive camber.

Once I installed the Hotchkis adjustable strut rods and verified that the lower control arm was not binding while the torsion bar was out, I was amazed at how far the lower control arm can freely move through its range of motion. Can you take it to far, of course, but with my lower control arms set-up with the Hotchkis measurement, my car now handles like it is on rails, tracks down the road way better, and all I did was a driveway alignment. Once I get my motor and transmission swap done, I'll take the car in and have it properly aligned.

Adjustable strut rods are an amazing item when used in the right application, Mopars happen to be one of those applications!

Feel free to disagree if you like, but the purpose of the strut rods is not to adjust caster. Also, little old ladies had nothing to do with the original alignment specs- the power steering cars use the same caster spec and they can be turned with one finger. These cars had bias ply tires from the factory, and therefore required different tire alignment specs than radials do. Which is why the caster settings were what they were. It's also why a lot of these cars "in stock form" wander all over the road. It's because they aren't actually stock. If you run radial tires with a bias-ply alignment, the results are less than great.

Don't get me wrong, I use adjustable strut rods on all of my Mopars. I use them because I also use polyurethane LCA bushings, which do not locate the LCA's the same way as the original rubber LCA bushings did. Which, as far as I'm concerned, makes the use of adjustable strut rods mandatory with poly LCA bushings. Also, pretty much all of the aftermarket strut rod bushings, even the "quality" ones, are the wrong thickness when you compare them to the stock bushings. Which means when you replace all the suspension bushings its not uncommon to find out that your strut rods are no longer the right length. I have seen cars using the stock strut rods and original bushings that had the LCA's properly located and not binding. And I've seen cars that had the LCA's pretty well bound up with the stock strut rods. Some worked better than others, but that is why I qualified my previous statements by saying that if the strut rods were properly locating the LCA's nothing would be gained with adjustable strut rods. There are plenty of cars out there that were, and are, aligned just fine with the stock strut rods. Just because your car wasn't, doesn't make it so for all of them.

You have to match all of your components, plain and simple. Tubular UCA's change the suspension geometry. Installing new bushings, especially poly bushings, can change the suspension geometry. So, it shouldn't be surprising that the stock, non-adjustable strut rods don't always work with tubular UCA's. Or poly bushings. Or even replacement rubber bushings, because they are commonly a different size than the originals were. Suspension is a system. All of the components work together. If you start making changes, you have to make sure everything else still works the way its supposed to.

Well I meant that meaning the rest of the alignment went well and had no issue.
I can't or rather won't at this point, I paid $200 for lifetime alignments and any Firestone.
That's why I was thinking of taking it to the other Firestone shop in town and see if they get any better luck with it.

Your last alignment didn't even "go", let alone "go well". It's not aligned.

You actually can run -.9º camber on the street. I do on my Challenger, and probably have run that much for over 10k miles. On the street you can typically run up to about -1º camber with radials before you end up with tire wearing issues. But the fact that the other side is positive is a disaster. It would be one thing if both sides were equal, but not to the spec you wanted. To have them be that different points to a problem. It could just be the tech that tried to align it didn't have the slightest idea what he was doing. Or something could be bent.

Good luck with Firestone. Most of the chains will only adjust the alignment to whats in the computer, which is the factory original specs intended for bias-ply tires. Sometimes you can reason with the tech and explain that the factory specs are actually dangerous for modern tires, but sometimes they're just morons.
 
The strut rods should not be used to adjust caster.

Strut rods are supposed to be adjusted so that the LCA moves freely. You can use adjustable strut rods to pull the LCA's forward and increase caster, but that's not how they're supposed to be used and it could cause premature wear on the LCA bushings and pins, not to mention ball joints and other wearing suspension parts.
Not trying to be argumentative, but wanting to see this correctly. As far as I know, there is no adjustment on the stock strut rods; the forward bolt just gets torqued to a spec and it ends up where it ends up. Perhaps there are different procedures for different bodies? For sure, I don't know them all....

And if there were a strut adjustment, I am having a hard time seeing how it would effect free movement of the LCA with stock bushings; the rubber has to get distorted just in normal up and down movement of the LCA. For a degree or 2 of forward angle of the LCA would not change anything that I can see.

As an example, for an added 1 degree of positive caster, the LCA's ball joint has to move forward about 3/16", which is a around 1/4" forward movement of the strut rod. That works out to about a degree change in the LCA angle when viewed from above. Not enough bushing distortion to worry about, IMO, at least with the stock rubber bushings. Not sure how the hardness of the poly would like that......which may be where it would become an issue.
 
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