Auction Tragedy in Scottsdale

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hemicop said:
Well if any insurance will pay, that's obviously a good thing. But here's the thing--looking at it from the insured's point-of-view, why should my company pay for the shortcomings of the seller(auctioneer)? If that's the case my company may or may not drop me or increase my rates when I have no control over the situation. Conversely, why should I, as the sales rep (aka auctioneer) have to pay for "an act of God", something I had no control over & presented my sale in good faith? I'm not trying to sound like an wiseguy, I'm just trying to understand WHO is going to fix these valuable, (now) relatively rare cars and just where DO the collector car insurance companies stand on this sort of thing?
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Are you for real ? with a handle like "Hemicop" I would expect a little more knowledge and common sense or maybe not , Insurance is the responsibility of the vehicle owner at the time of the accident period . The auction house has no ownership rights and no liability even if the auction contract didn't have a liability waiver attached to it which I'm sure it did , lastly as stated earlier this is Comprehensive damage if they pay it cannot be used against you later ie.. rate increase or dropped coverage it is the same as hitting a deer and the insurance companies have teams of geeks who have already calculated the cost of the loss from every storm that will occur every where this year and it is factored in to your current premiums so don't cry for them .

Sorry about your losses guys that must have been so gut wrenching to watch I can't imagine ,hope your cars were spared
 
cannucky said:
Comprehensive damage if they pay it cannot be used against you later ie.. rate increase or dropped coverage it is the same as hitting a deer and the insurance companies have teams of geeks who have already calculated the cost of the loss from every storm that will occur every where this year and it is factored in to your current premiums so don't cry for them .
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Back in the early 90's I bought a 383 Super Bee. The first weekend out with it I was top-ending it at 3:00am on some back country roads. They were straight as an arrow for miles. After a run at 130mph I slowed down coming into a town. As I went through the town I was doing a leisurely 30mph and it started to sprinkle a little. I came over a crest on the other side of town and hit the wipers. As they were smearing bug guts all over my windshield something in the road didn't look right. There was a heard of cattle all across the road. As I slammed on the brakes and hit the horn, the cows weren't moving and my 4 wheel drum brakes weren't stopping. Nowhere to go. The dumb bovines were across road from fence post to fence post. Just as I was about to rear-end one, I cranked the wheel and put the car sideways. Hit the ***-end right smack-dab above the passenger front wheel. It spun the Bee around like a top and I ended up facing the opposite direction. The fender had a big *** print and was pushed in right up to the hood.

When the insurance adjuster came to look at the car, he was going to put it down as my fault under collision. I fought with him that it's under comprehensive because it was an animal. I admitted to putting the car sideways and that's why he wanted to put it down as my fault. Then I told him that if I had hit the cow head-on with my front bumper, I would most likely taken out the cows legs and flipped it back onto the roof thus totalling the car. Instead of paying hundreds for the fender, they would have been paying thousands for the car. In the end he finally saw it my way and under comprehensive it went. Even at that the body shop had to fight with the guy over a washer bottle. They could get a new one from Chrysler, but he insisted they find a used one. After a few days of searching and calling wreckers the body shop told the adjuster that he either let them put a new one on or they were going to start charging for long distance calls and all the time spent on the phone. They got the go ahead for a new one. Most insurance adjusters I've dealt with are real dill-holes.

I can only imagine what these guy are going to be going through. They have my sympathy.


Wylde1.
 
Makes me sad knowing a lot of hard work just got ruined. I live on the coast and the weather here was pretty bad. I should have guessed it would make it to the auction. I am just glad my first mopar is under a roof and dry as a bone.
 
Glad no one was hurt. Sounds like the promoter got everyone out in time, which is far more important than the cars.
 
Wylde1 said:
Back in the early 90's I bought a 383 Super Bee. The first weekend out with it I was top-ending it at 3:00am on some back country roads. They were straight as an arrow for miles. After a run at 130mph I slowed down coming into a town. As I went through the town I was doing a leisurely 30mph and it started to sprinkle a little. I came over a crest on the other side of town and hit the wipers. As they were smearing bug guts all over my windshield something in the road didn't look right. There was a heard of cattle all across the road. As I slammed on the brakes and hit the horn, the cows weren't moving and my 4 wheel drum brakes weren't stopping. Nowhere to go. The dumb bovines were across road from fence post to fence post. Just as I was about to rear-end one, I cranked the wheel and put the car sideways. Hit the ***-end right smack-dab above the passenger front wheel. It spun the Bee around like a top and I ended up facing the opposite direction. The fender had a big *** print and was pushed in right up to the hood.

When the insurance adjuster came to look at the car, he was going to put it down as my fault under collision. I fought with him that it's under comprehensive because it was an animal. I admitted to putting the car sideways and that's why he wanted to put it down as my fault. Then I told him that if I had hit the cow head-on with my front bumper, I would most likely taken out the cows legs and flipped it back onto the roof thus totalling the car. Instead of paying hundreds for the fender, they would have been paying thousands for the car. In the end he finally saw it my way and under comprehensive it went. Even at that the body shop had to fight with the guy over a washer bottle. They could get a new one from Chrysler, but he insisted they find a used one. After a few days of searching and calling wreckers the body shop told the adjuster that he either let them put a new one on or they were going to start charging for long distance calls and all the time spent on the phone. They got the go ahead for a new one. Most insurance adjusters I've dealt with are real dill-holes.

I can only imagine what these guy are going to be going through. They have my sympathy.


Wylde1.
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Why in the hell were you going 130 MPH in a 30 year old car with drum brakes at 3AM in the morning?? Lucky it was a cow and not some family of four broke down on the road.
 
dart4forte said:
Why in the hell were you going 130 MPH in a 30 year old car with drum brakes at 3AM in the morning?? Lucky it was a cow and not some family of four broke down on the road.
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'Cause I was young and invinceable. My motto back then was, "you can't kill what ain't human." And I've never seen another car on that road after 9:00pm in all the years that I travelled down it. I drive alot slower these days than I did 20 years ago. And back then it was only a 20+ year old car.



Wylde1.
 
dart4forte said:
Why in the hell were you going 130 MPH in a 30 year old car with drum brakes at 3AM in the morning?? Lucky it was a cow and not some family of four broke down on the road.
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Isn't 3AM always in the morning?



This reminder provided by the United States Department of Redundancy Department.

:-D
 
ha ha....

I buried the speed-o the other day in the valiant just gettin on the freeway.

Maybe 125-135mph turning close to 6k in 4th.

good fun, but couldn't find that family of 4.. shucks.
 
cannucky said:
Are you for real ? with a handle like "Hemicop" I would expect a little more knowledge and common sense or maybe not , Insurance is the responsibility of the vehicle owner at the time of the accident period . The auction house has no ownership rights and no liability even if the auction contract didn't have a liability waiver attached to it which I'm sure it did , lastly as stated earlier this is Comprehensive damage if they pay it cannot be used against you later ie.. rate increase or dropped coverage it is the same as hitting a deer and the insurance companies have teams of geeks who have already calculated the cost of the loss from every storm that will occur every where this year and it is factored in to your current premiums so don't cry for them .

Sorry about your losses guys that must have been so gut wrenching to watch I can't imagine ,hope your cars were spared
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I'm simply asking a question while presenting two different & in some people's opinion valid views. This is no different than going to a place of public entertainment & being injured. An individual, as a paying participant, has a certain level of expectation to be provided with a safe environment in which to enjoy the show. A point could be made that knowing of the warning & not doubly securing the tentscould be construed as being negligientby some---I genuinely don't know & apparently it IS a valid question as it took the R&S people days to figure out what to do. There have been cases where the owner/leasor of a site was found liable & I'm sure you could find plenty of guys whose car insurance companies have said "TS" when they tried to file a claim for an "act of God". You seem to think all the responsibility is on the vehicle owner, and maybe it is, but here in the U.S. where being "lawsuit happy" is a Right and a national pasttime, such concerns are a valid question. I simply asked as I don't have collector car insurance on my car and as I said I can see both sides. You on the other hand, seem to think asking ANY questions when you don't know all the facts (as I don't either) is pointless and not worth asking---- I wonder if you'd feel the same way if your 100k+ car was damaged or destroyed.
 
having lived and crashed a car in the US , hit a deer at 55 , I am aware of the way insurance works in your country in spite of the way people down there want to place blame whenever something bad happens to them , I am sure the lawyers for R&S include a very strong waiver of liability in the fine print of their auction contract and would expect a member of law enforcement to have and exercise a little more common sense rather than ask alarmist questions we all know we have to insure our vehicles as I said IF they pay it will be comprehensive Wyldes post only illustrates this as the agent was trying to refuse to call his claim comprehensive in order to offset cost and recoup the loss through future premiums , THIS IS A TRAGIC EVENT for all those who have cars involved and I hope they are able to get proper compensation for their loss ,I suspect that those cars that had just been sold might be in between policies and their new owners stuck. Blaming the owners of R&S or the tent rental people for an incredibly unexpected event is unfair nobody can stop the power of weather there is always a storm stronger than anything you plan for it's not like those tools you see on TV crying for FEMA money to rebuild the beach house they have rebuilt every three years after another Hurricane comes up from the gulf .
 
Just because someone is the high bidder on a car, doesnt mean he legally owns it until all of the paperwork is done. So if the paperwork wasnt done, the original owner is still covering the car. Once the paperwork is finalized, then the new owner must cover the car. My agent told me that whenever I buy a vehicle, my existing policy will cover it for 10 days. I dont know if thats how every insurance company handles it, but if they do, then the new owners should be covered as well.
 
dont be surprised when hagerty and other insurance companies sue the event promotors.
 
those auctions drove prices way too high-ruined things for majority in my opinion. Not interested!
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
ha ha....

I buried the speed-o the other day in the valiant just gettin on the freeway.

Maybe 125-135mph turning close to 6k in 4th.

good fun, but couldn't find that family of 4.. shucks.
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Good deal. We all have to remember we all did it when we were young. The old 70 Duster 340 used to show 143mph at 6000 when I was a teenager. Stupid but I miss those days. I remember coming over a hill at 120+ with no power brakes in a 30 mph zone in Soo Canada and there was a car there......the girls were screaming but we made it. Another time I was coming up fast on a car 120mph or so and figured out it was the OPP before they saw me.....good ole days. Now I am a dad I know that was stupid. Life is full of life lessons!
 
Posting this late in that I just got back from having dinner with Mark and his wife. Pretty impressive on how I was treated today. Many were more unfortunate than I in terms of the damage to their cars. It appears after talking with the Haggerty rep the mark on the driver side quarter above the stripe is into the paint so some type of paint repair will have to be made. All other marks can be buffed out. Chrome trim on the drivers door is dinged.

All in all the process they had went well. There were however some very unhappy people regarding the insurance issue. Some of the owners didn't have insurance on their cars and expect RS to step up to the plate. I'm sure we'll be hearing about this for months.

It looks like about a good 250 cars opted out of the auction. Many were due to damage while others simply gave up and took their toys home.
 
cannucky said:
having lived and crashed a car in the US , hit a deer at 55 , I am aware of the way insurance works in your country in spite of the way people down there want to place blame whenever something bad happens to them , I am sure the lawyers for R&S include a very strong waiver of liability in the fine print of their auction contract and would expect a member of law enforcement to have and exercise a little more common sense rather than ask an alarmist questions we all know we have to insure our vehicles as I said IF they pay it will be comprehensive Wyldes post only illustrates this as the agent was trying to refuse to call his claim comprehensive in order to offset cost and recoup the loss through future premiums , THIS IS A TRAGIC EVENT for all those who have cars involved and I hope they are able to get proper compensation for their loss ,I suspect that those cars that had just been sold might be in between policies and their new owners stuck. Blaming the owners of R&S or the tent rental people for an incredibly unexpected event is unfair nobody can stop the power of weather there is always a storm stronger than anything you plan for it's not like those tools you see on TV crying for FEMA money to rebuild the beach house they have rebuilt every three years after another Hurricane comes up from the gulf .
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It IS a question that needs to be asked & answered, alarmist or not.YOU put too much faith in "THE SYSTEM" NAD forget alot of people have trailer queens they quite simply don't insure for whatever reason. If R&S can find a way to waive liability, fine. You answered my question (at least as far as your experiences can) as well as voicing your opinion of law enforcement, have a nice day.......
 
flatnose said:
those auctions drove prices way too high-ruined things for majority in my opinion. Not interested!
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Yes! And because those fools are willing to pay so much it drives the price of parts up as well. It's part of the reason Im STILL collecting parts and my cars not done. Not all of the reason but definitely contributes.

I have to be much smarter than your avg bear to even remotely afford building my Dart now. This entails waiting a long time for good deals to show up,and not shopping at year one or the paddock,lol...
 
i bought a car from an aution up in jersey about 4 years ago, and on its way out of the place it got hit in the side. well, the company that puts on the event has coverage for all types of problems. so i am sure that the company that put on this event has millions and millions of dollars worth of coverage on the cars. it is their responsibility. they will all get paid fair market value. so i am sure some of them will not be happy with the amount of the insurance companies' offer
 
I talked with a Haggerty rep today. The way it will work for those insured through Haggerty is that they will settle with their customer. The insurance companies, based upon their investigations and that of the fire marshall will establish liability. He wasn't sure but there will be three insurance carries involved. Russo Steel's, the company that furnished the tent, Haggerty and other classic car carriers as well as the company that supplied the actual workers that put up the tents. It will all be based on reasonabale precautions. Based on the actions of all Scottsdale Fire Department, the contractors and others who may of had a hand in the set-up it may all boil down to a wash. One thing to remember, based on inspections by the Fire Marshall along with the city of Scottsdale code inspectors the structure was approved to be occupied. I was told the structure was rated for 65MPH winds. I can tell you first hand the winds last Thursady evening were at least 75MPH sustained wind speed with at least 100MPH gusts. Locals are calling it the 35 year storm.
 
I can't believe that the car owners left their cars in that pos tent knowing that bad weather was coming. Those tents are just that.....tents with a couple of poles holding them up. I'm thinking that alot of those cars needed to be sold considering the hole we are in.
 
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