varlo
Joe- Long Island, Oakdale
wow great info.....subscribed. I hope to pull this off as well.
Battery Relocation Question
- Thread starter ckj688
- Start date
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dartcuda1
67 Barracuda 500ci 6sp
Can you elaborate on how it's hooked up? If all you do is break the battery lead THE CAR WILL STILL RUN on the alternator
Hear is where you are wrong.I don,t want to steel this guys thread.With all the relays all I see is that you are separating the ignition from the alternator.If they are on the same power switch (they are when the battery is in the front).When you look at the diagrams as long as the system power is hot the car will run with the alternator.The system power is hooked to the ignition.separate the two.I didn,t get on this subject to get in a pissing match or a what if match.I know the systemI use works for me and I just learning why all the relays.67dart273 is going down a list of what ifs,something I don,t need to know. Mark
Hear is where you are wrong.I don,t want to steel this guys thread.With all the relays all I see is that you are separating the ignition from the alternator.If they are on the same power switch (they are when the battery is in the front).When you look at the diagrams as long as the system power is hot the car will run with the alternator.The system power is hooked to the ignition.separate the two.I didn,t get on this subject to get in a pissing match or a what if match.I know the systemI use works for me and I just learning why all the relays.67dart273 is going down a list of what ifs,something I don,t need to know. Mark
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I agree, but some folks seem to want to get rid of a large battery lead being constantly energized.
If that is what you want to do, then THAT is the way I'd probably do it, IE
USE A 4 TERMINAL disconnect.
Run a huge starter cable up front, and put the disconnect inline.
Run two no 14's or no12's to the two auxiliary terminals on the disconnect.
Use them to run a relay/ continuous solenoid up front, which is triggered by the key. Run your accessory/ ignition loads off the solenoid
dangina
Member
sorry to bump an old thread but I have a couple questions concerning your diagram, just want to make sure I do this right - I edited your photo, mostly asking what size it is, but the blue wire labeled 1, where the ignition wire use to run is now on the CDR in your diagram, is that correct? so there should be no wire hooked on to the oem starter relay ignition spot?
what ford solenoid are you guys using? do you have a part #?
What are you doing with the ballast resistor and its wiring?
what are you doing about the ammeter? I 'd like to eliminate it but I still would need to hook up the wiring inside the car that came off the other side of the ammeter(the black wires). What wire would be hooked up for this to work?
Are you guys eliminating the voltage regulator wiring if your using the toyota denso alternator instead?
what ford solenoid are you guys using? do you have a part #?
What are you doing with the ballast resistor and its wiring?
what are you doing about the ammeter? I 'd like to eliminate it but I still would need to hook up the wiring inside the car that came off the other side of the ammeter(the black wires). What wire would be hooked up for this to work?
Are you guys eliminating the voltage regulator wiring if your using the toyota denso alternator instead?
Why have a ford solenoid on the master cutoff downstream side?
Look for the activation/trigger amperage of the CD relay. 12 or 14ga wire is likely overkill in most cases for the trigger circuit.
Look for the activation/trigger amperage of the CD relay. 12 or 14ga wire is likely overkill in most cases for the trigger circuit.
I know this is an old post, but I didn't see it addressed. You can ground the battery to the chassis at the rear, and then ground the engine to the chassis at the front. It will work. Until something isn't perfect and then you'll have hard cranking and possibly no starting.
Every weld that the starting current has to pass through is a small resistor, and it will have to pass through a lot of welds between the front and the rear. Those "resistors" won't mean much to a small current because they behave a bit like the ballast resistor and increase their resistance with an increase in current. Starting currents are large, so their resistance will also be large.
If you have a single, continuous frame rail (like say an Alston tube chassis) to ground to at both ends, then it's probably a viable way to go. With a unit body I wouldn't and didn't do it. I ran a ground cable of the same size as the hot cable up to the engine block. I did not ground the battery at the rear as I'm eventually going to be EFI and ground loops make them crazy. Didn't want set myself that trap, make it work like stock - battery grounds to the engine block first.
As for battery kill switches, this is how I would wire one into the car:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970373936&postcount=15
Note that I didn't directly cover a one wire type alternator. It was covered earlier in the thread, but frankly I don't like them. A continuous duty solenoid in the charge wire of a one wire alt. is the only way to not run the charge wire all of the way back to the battery side of the kill switch.
dangina
Member
also to add to this I saw this diagram for the ammeter bypass:
why did they just remove this wire like so? its going to the same terminal?
why did they just remove this wire like so? its going to the same terminal?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Read the article. The original TWO ammeter wires become ONE parallel wire which reduces the load on the bulkhead connector and the wire. This, in effect, makes the battery feed wire into the interior "one large wire"
Removing charging current from that section of the circuit further "unloads" the wire and connections (change to the alternator charge wire)
Removing charging current from that section of the circuit further "unloads" the wire and connections (change to the alternator charge wire)
dangina
Member
so what would be the final diagram do this the proper way then? this way:
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
That is one way. That diagram is the result of a conversation of myself and a member on here. He drew the diagram, I'm not a "CAD" guy LOL
What is shown as a "continuous duty" solenoid does not need to be that heavy. It can be a good quality relay. It needs to be heavy enough to switch the ignition loads. If you are running a "one wire" it will not be switching anything to do with the alternator, but rather, only the ignition. If you have other heavy ignition switched loads, like fuel pumps, fans, etc, a continuous duty solenoid might be a good idea.
The blue represents the original "ignition run" line coming out of your bulkhead. You break that and feed the solenoid. What is not shown there is if you are no longer using a ballast resistor, the brown bypass resistor must be tied to the blue at the bulkhead connector where it takes off to the rear going to the disconnect.
What is shown as a "continuous duty" solenoid does not need to be that heavy. It can be a good quality relay. It needs to be heavy enough to switch the ignition loads. If you are running a "one wire" it will not be switching anything to do with the alternator, but rather, only the ignition. If you have other heavy ignition switched loads, like fuel pumps, fans, etc, a continuous duty solenoid might be a good idea.
The blue represents the original "ignition run" line coming out of your bulkhead. You break that and feed the solenoid. What is not shown there is if you are no longer using a ballast resistor, the brown bypass resistor must be tied to the blue at the bulkhead connector where it takes off to the rear going to the disconnect.
paralysis by analysis... 
Pick a method and go with it. I like some better than others, but, if legal is all you want, it's very basic and easy.
Pick a method and go with it. I like some better than others, but, if legal is all you want, it's very basic and easy.
dangina
Member
Ok I think I got it now, I updated your diagram for the toyota denso upgrade with proper pigtail colors for future mopar members(I hope you don't mind) based off this post:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...&Words=+cruzin&topic=&Search=true#Post5831617
Also just to be clear - I added in black writing on the red wire going to A on the CDR that its also the black parallel wire coming back from the ammeter like in the above post #32
Also the voltage Regulator is now no longer needed since the toyota denso alternator is internally regulated
I was curious, shouldn't the wire from the battery cutoff to the starter be fused?
I also put the battery wire from alternator to start relay as a #10 wire, is this right? or should this be a bigger wire like a #8 or 6?
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...&Words=+cruzin&topic=&Search=true#Post5831617
Also just to be clear - I added in black writing on the red wire going to A on the CDR that its also the black parallel wire coming back from the ammeter like in the above post #32
Also the voltage Regulator is now no longer needed since the toyota denso alternator is internally regulated
I was curious, shouldn't the wire from the battery cutoff to the starter be fused?
I also put the battery wire from alternator to start relay as a #10 wire, is this right? or should this be a bigger wire like a #8 or 6?
dodge71demon
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to hide as much of the wiring as possible and having all electrical componets on one panel under the dash with a cover cooling with a small axial fan on my 69 Valiant project with the battery in the trunk. Using 2 gage welding wire for the flexibilty from trunk ran it through the right rear frame rail through rocker panel coming up very front of rocker panel coming in under the cowl (above antenna wire hole)
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
On an MSD, you wire the "large black" and "large red" to hot power. The power on /off occurs on the "small red" wire..........think of it like a relay trigger, that is, very low current.
So what you could do is to eliminate the relay / continuous duty solenoid, and wire the output of the small terminals on the disconnect to the "small red" on the MSD
So you have ignition switch............to small disconnect terminals.........back up front to MSD small red.
That way the disconnect kills power to the ignition and kills the engine.
So what you could do is to eliminate the relay / continuous duty solenoid, and wire the output of the small terminals on the disconnect to the "small red" on the MSD
So you have ignition switch............to small disconnect terminals.........back up front to MSD small red.
That way the disconnect kills power to the ignition and kills the engine.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
The problem with "a main fuse" is that it must absorb the full impact of the alternator
That is, let's say you run the battery down "a fair amount." Either you let the lights on for hours, or flooded, whatever. "it's down."
Maybe it's night. Maybe it's night AND COLD. The alternator is REALLY cranking out the suds. If it's a 100A alternator, you need at least a 100A fuse or link, and "charging wire" sized to absorb it.
That is, let's say you run the battery down "a fair amount." Either you let the lights on for hours, or flooded, whatever. "it's down."
Maybe it's night. Maybe it's night AND COLD. The alternator is REALLY cranking out the suds. If it's a 100A alternator, you need at least a 100A fuse or link, and "charging wire" sized to absorb it.
dangina
Member
I've been talking with a member on roadrunnernest about this and this is the diagram I'll probably go with
Why have a ford solenoid on the master cutoff downstream side?
72Valiant4Door
Trouble Maker
I have been searching through the topic of wiring for quite some time, and it really seems like one of the biggest areas of contention and argument among the abody afficiandos.
I want to relocate to the trunk for weight and clutter's sake... I need to bypass the ammeter, and I have the crackedback headlight relay... but when I go looking for wiring diagrams especially for relay placement... there really is no consensus....
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=154013
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=335457
I will probably never run at a track, so i do not need a disconnect, but I am open to it for safety's sake...
Can we get some consensus what is best and most simple when it comes to upgrading the wiring and electrical???
I want to relocate to the trunk for weight and clutter's sake... I need to bypass the ammeter, and I have the crackedback headlight relay... but when I go looking for wiring diagrams especially for relay placement... there really is no consensus....
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=154013
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=335457
I will probably never run at a track, so i do not need a disconnect, but I am open to it for safety's sake...
Can we get some consensus what is best and most simple when it comes to upgrading the wiring and electrical???
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I agree. Mine is inside a piece of tubing for added protection, in the factory wire channel. I don't see it being safer under the car. They do make "big" circuit breakers here and there.
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