best way to install girdle

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340 mopar

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When you install girdle do you, shim up to girdle or is it best to machine main caps down even with the bolt hole. Motor is 340 (10.5 to 1) with rhs heads (62cc) with port and polish from brian at imm. Cam is 249/255 @50. I think (hope) about 475 hp. Thanks guys:glasses2:
 
At that level, you dont need a griddle.
 
Yeah, no need for the girdle at that power level, but the best way is to machine the caps. Personally, there isn't really any good girdles out there. That's why we build our own ;)

1/2" girdle

n505471031_178229_555.jpg


girdle2.jpg


Machined caps along with one un machined cap. Spot milled rear cap to match...

n505471031_102055_4853.jpg


-Kenny
 
At you level, you don't need the girdle. If you really want to get an improvement in strength, install the billet main caps. That will make things pretty safe to about 600hp. Beyond that, just buy a better block. There's no reason for a girdle that ties poor caps together. There might be some good done if you have good caps tied together, but between fitting the caps, and fitting the girdle, it's not worth it to me.
 
Not too experienced with girdles, but I'd grease her up a bit, hang her from a door frame and come at er from the bottom
 
A girdle is a waste of time on a 475hp SB engine.

They are a waste of time on almost EVERY stock block SB engine, but, I digress.
 
This is our setup and they have proven to be very good over anything else we have done. I would never mill a Stock cap done that much, they are not that strong to begin with. They are not nearly as strong as our 4140 caps

But like what was said, at your power level its not realy needed unless your going to go for more and more power. A set of ARP main studs will do the job.
 

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MRL Performance said:
This is our setup and they have proven to be very good over anything else we have done. I would never mill a Stock cap done that much, they are not that strong to begin with. They are not nearly as strong as our 4140 caps

But like what was said, at your power level its not realy needed unless your going to go for more and more power. A set of ARP main studs will do the job.
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We never had an issue with our stock milled caps with the 1/2" girdle, and we definitely worked that stock block engine HARD! But I sure like your caps! Never seen them before! I will keep you in mind. How much power have you put through a stock block with those bad boys?? I would assume the caps aren't the weak part of the block anymore with those.

-Kenny
 
My TT 410ci has a stock 360 Block, main studs & line honed with stock caps. I am sure it will make at least 800HP to the crank if not more. Boost is linear unlike a High compression or NOS engine build making 600 HP. Guys have been successful with well over 1000 HP at the crank with boost and the block lives. These blocks are alot tougher than you are giving them credit for.
 
As of now about 650hp. Much more than that I feel a lot better going to a MP R block or Ritter.
 
MRL Performance said:
As of now about 650hp. Much more than that I feel a lot better going to a MP R block or Ritter.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my 318 block 434ci. Engine did well, but was putting down 610rwhp on our dyno. So, when the head gaskets gave out, I decided it was probably a good time to start using my R3 in the car.
 
Mad Dart said:
My TT 410ci has a stock 360 Block, main studs & line honed with stock caps. I am sure it will make at least 800HP to the crank if not more. Boost is linear unlike a High compression or NOS engine build making 600 HP. Guys have been successful with well over 1000 HP at the crank with boost and the block lives. These blocks are alot tougher than you are giving them credit for.
Click to expand...

You say it yourself, the HP levels you're talking about are only attainable with a turbocharged setup. No supercharged (of any sort) or NO2 engines could live at that output level. It's the harmonics and dynamics of the running engines that cause the caps to move, and then the main webbing to fail, assuming you can keep head gaskets and ring seal in it because the heads and bore walls move at those levels too. The thing to remember is the cost to properly prep a factory block vs the cost of a better one. It's simply not cost efficient to spend $3K+ on a factory block to get something that is as good as it can get, when you can buy a much better one pretty much ready to go for a small amount more. The last block I "maxxed out" was a $3300 bill for the block ready to assemble and that was several years ago. that included 4 Pro Gram billet caps, studs, lifter bore bushings, and the usual bore/hone/deck/etc. It lives just fine, but with the availability of better stuff now (Ritter would be my first choice rather than MP) it's just not worth it.
 
moper said:
You say it yourself, the HP levels you're talking about are only attainable with a turbocharged setup. No supercharged (of any sort) or NO2 engines could live at that output level. It's the harmonics and dynamics of the running engines that cause the caps to move, and then the main webbing to fail, assuming you can keep head gaskets and ring seal in it because the heads and bore walls move at those levels too. The thing to remember is the cost to properly prep a factory block vs the cost of a better one. It's simply not cost efficient to spend $3K+ on a factory block to get something that is as good as it can get, when you can buy a much better one pretty much ready to go for a small amount more. The last block I "maxxed out" was a $3300 bill for the block ready to assemble and that was several years ago. that included 4 Pro Gram billet caps, studs, lifter bore bushings, and the usual bore/hone/deck/etc. It lives just fine, but with the availability of better stuff now (Ritter would be my first choice rather than MP) it's just not worth it.
Click to expand...


Yeah, prepping a stock block can get up there. I don't totally agree with the "you can buy a much better one pretty much ready to go for a small amount more." statement. The aftermarket blocks are still a small bore when they show up. They also have a higher nickel content. The bill just for boring my R3 was double what it would be for a stock block. So, they aren't quite ready to go when you get them out of the crate. If you plan on buying a 59 degree block, that is fine too, but then you are paying someone to mill away the extra head bolt bosses in the valley if your going to run a solid roller, which if your already spending money on the block, why wouldn't you go the extra bit to run a roller. OR you can go the 48 degree route as I have. Now the cam was twice as much. Then to save money, I put a 59 degree top end on it and needed to clearance the heads. Also now, the roller lifter's smack the bottom of my W2 intake manifold. haha. So now I cut the bottom of the intake off, and it's time to weld a plate across the bottom.

At the end of the day, is it worth it to go to the aftermarket block? I still say yes. It isn't cheap, but speed cost money, how fast do you or I want to go eh? When you sink a bunch of money into a stock block, make the big power numbers, and the block says "forget this, I am outta here" the aftermarket block doesn't seem like a bad thing to spend the extra cash on.

-Kenny
 
moper said:
You say it yourself, the HP levels you're talking about are only attainable with a turbocharged setup. No supercharged (of any sort) or NO2 engines could live at that output level. It's the harmonics and dynamics of the running engines that cause the caps to move, and then the main webbing to fail, assuming you can keep head gaskets and ring seal in it because the heads and bore walls move at those levels too. The thing to remember is the cost to properly prep a factory block vs the cost of a better one. It's simply not cost efficient to spend $3K+ on a factory block to get something that is as good as it can get, when you can buy a much better one pretty much ready to go for a small amount more. The last block I "maxxed out" was a $3300 bill for the block ready to assemble and that was several years ago. that included 4 Pro Gram billet caps, studs, lifter bore bushings, and the usual bore/hone/deck/etc. It lives just fine, but with the availability of better stuff now (Ritter would be my first choice rather than MP) it's just not worth it.
Click to expand...

I hear you on the costs. Brian at IMM prepped my block so I know it is done right. He line honed the cam journals also. This engine is the smoothest rotating SBM I have worked on so far. The Ritter Block is a very nice piece.
When this one wears out the Ritter will be the upgrade.
 
lol... Well, I said "almost". Obviously you've got at least some experience building a really strong engine. And you know the bills they mandate spending.... The bore/hone and setting deck height is always something that needs to be done, unless you get a "block in a bag" deal from some of the suppliers and you'll still be doing something as you mock things up and encounter something else. At these levels, it's less of a "how much" and more of a "I want this..."
 
moper said:
lol... Well, I said "almost". Obviously you've got at least some experience building a really strong engine. And you know the bills they mandate spending.... The bore/hone and setting deck height is always something that needs to be done, unless you get a "block in a bag" deal from some of the suppliers and you'll still be doing something as you mock things up and encounter something else. At these levels, it's less of a "how much" and more of a "I want this..."
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Yeah, the $$$ just seem to keep flowing out. haha. Anyway, now we rail roaded this thread, talking about aftermarket blocks. I will just PM you and continue chattin'

-Kenny
 
StrokerValiant said:
Yeah, no need for the girdle at that power level, but the best way is to machine the caps. Personally, there isn't really any good girdles out there. That's why we build our own ;)

1/2" girdle

n505471031_178229_555.jpg


girdle2.jpg


Machined caps along with one un machined cap. Spot milled rear cap to match...

n505471031_102055_4853.jpg


-Kenny
Click to expand...

That is a Nice Piece!
 
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