Blown head gasket - questions

[jarvitron]

OK, so Princess decided to blow a head gasket. Didn't seem to be overheating, and I don't feel like doing a big ol' proper rebuild on a 70's 318 (since I found a 5.9 magnum not too far away that I'd much rather tear into), but while I prep that engine, I am planning on doing a carport head gasket and timing chain job. I have a shop close that I can take the heads to to check the mating surfaces, bought a cheapie Felpro gasket kit and a timing chain just to get her back on the road and take the gamble on the bearings and lifters surviving the drive.

My question is this: It did put water in the oil, and it was started/driven a couple blocks, meaning there's contaminated vinaigrette all through the motor. Obviously when I do the head gaskets I'm gonna do an oil change, but what precautions should I take before I start it up? Put a couple quarts in the pan and prime it with my drill to flush the gunk out, then drain it and do another oil/filter change? I know I'm cheaping out but I wanna maximize my chances here (for at least another 1500-2000 miles/2 months, while I prep the magnum to swap).

Thoughts? Emotions?

 

[BillGrissom]

Your flush plan sounds prudent. Probably not even necessary since the water will boil off as it is driven. I doubt a little water hurt anything. I tore open a 273 motor that sat with water and leaves inside for years (no intake). The rings were stuck and the cylinder walls corroded, but I didn't find rust on any other parts.

If you are leaving the oil pan on, make sure you get the timing cover gasket set with the little pieces of oil pan gasket ends. You cut the original gasket off and use those at the front, w/ a dab of RTV. Most kits have them.

 

[jarvitron]

I got a whole gasket kit so I'm probably gonna drop the pan anyways, I've not been inside this motor at all so I may as well get a good eyefuggle, see if there's chips of junk or old RTV boogers floating around in there.

 

[67Dart273]

Depends on whether this was oil or antifreeze. Coolant is MUCH worse for a bottom end than water.


If you do flush this in this way, be sure to pull the valve covers and rotate the crank and watch for oil up through the rocker area. You might buy a couple of quarts of Rislone. START your flush with a clean filter, as some of the gunk will be in the old one. Replace the "new" "flush" filter after flushing.

It probably would be best AFTER you flush as clean as you can, to pull the valve gear apart and flush out the rocker shafts, etc. You might even consider pulling the lifters and cleaning them out individually. MARK them so they go back in the original holes.

 

[cudajim]

Are you sure the head gaskets were bad? My 318 engine in the Dodge Van had water in the oil and it turned out to be a tiny pinhole behind the water pump. I had to replace the timing case cover, water pump and timing chain (while I was in there). I did needlessly replace the head gaskets because I was sure they were the culprit. In any case I replaced the oil when I got done, ran it for only 2 days then replaced the oil and filter again.

 

[jos51700]

Depends on whether this was oil or antifreeze. Coolant is MUCH worse for a bottom end than water.

Huh? This makes no sense. Antifreeze has rust inhibitors in it. I'll take a crankcase full of coolant (actually, that has occurred before) to straight water any day.

 

[jarvitron]

There's a miss on a cylinder or two, so I'm pretty confident it's gaskets and not the cover/pump, though I am gonna do the timing chain, and I'll check it out when I'm in there. It's got antifreeze in there and I'm not really worried about rust so much as I'm worried about spinning bearings or wiping cam lobes. I'll go buy a cheap filter to do the flush instead of putting a Wix on there just to throw away. Thanks for the input you guys!

 

[Coronet 500]

We bought a gallon of WD40 and pumped it through my son's engine as it's alot thinner, then did the same with oil like your going to do. We saved the WD40 and still use it for somethings after a pass through a coffee filter.

 

[sireland67]

Take the oil pump off, while you are in there and clean the pickup screen.
You will be amazed at how much crap will be in there, I took one off a running motor and it sounded like a baby rattle, mostly pieces of timing gears and sludge.
On my 48 flathead, I had the pickup hot tanked and they are made so you dissemble the screen from the pickup body.
When I tore it apart after the tank dip, it had parts of a red shop rag shredded in it.

 

[TrailBeast]

Water does not gum up when mixed with oil.
Antifreeze does.

Huh? This makes no sense. Antifreeze has rust inhibitors in it. I'll take a crankcase full of coolant (actually, that has occurred before) to straight water any day.

 

[jarvitron]

We bought a gallon of WD40 and pumped it through my son's engine as it's alot thinner, then did the same with oil like your going to do. We saved the WD40 and still use it for somethings after a pass through a coffee filter.

WD is a fantastic idea, thanks!

I'm also gonna take off the pump pick up and dip it in my bucket of carb cleaner. Blown head gaskets suck, all official.

 

[RedFish]

It's always a gamble when water or gasoline gets in the bottom end. The odds change with howmuch wear is in the engine. At 30K miles I would go for it.
80K + miles, good luck.
I sure as heck wouldn't flush the bearings with WD40.
Water doesn't do near as much washing of bearings as gasoline or WD40 would/will.

 

[jarvitron]

I am gonna take your counsel on the WD in the crankcase and just do the prime-to-flush plan. Engine mileage is unknowable. ODO reads 80893 but is that 180? 580? Was this motor ever out? Last owner kept receipts and records, so I have back to... 2004, and 53-something on the ODO. Gaskets are cheap, sun is out, and beers are cold so I'm gonna give it the old college try. Worst case scenario I start it up and there's something bad wrong? I swap in this 96 5.9 I just bought _without_ giving it a once over and roll the bones there, still only out a sunny Saturday and a twelve pack. Again, this is a low dollar gamble to get my car back on the road and buy time to build the 5.9 right. Millions of rednecky miles have doubtless been driven on post-blown-headgasket shadetree engines, all I'm lookin' for is a month and a half to prep a swap.

 

[jarvitron]

So far, so good, did as smart-and-upright a job as I can making sure I put all the fasteners into baggies and labeling them, labeling the hoses and wires and keeping all my important bolts in the right order. Rocker assemblies out, pushrods out, water pump and timing chain cover off, valve covers, intake and exhaust manifolds out. All head bolts loosened, but I just ran out of back-power to seal the deal today. Jesus wept that intake is heavy as a bastard. Glad I'm going to aluminum with the new motor. Not a fastener (aside from the bolts holding on the alternator) was torqued anywhere NEAR evenly with its peers and rarely were they much past hand-tight, and every surface has a multicolored array of RTV's applied in no particular order and with no particular effectiveness.

Sprayed on some foamy degreaser and I'm gonna scrub all of the chunks off in the washer tonight. Definitely a greaser. When the motor comes out I'm going to have to get pretty aggressive with a pressurewasher to clean up the K-member and inner fenders. Distributor gear looks fine, internals of distributor look fine. Cam lifter surfaces look... well they don't look like the lifter sits very even on most of the lobes, but they clean up shiny with a diaper cloth and there's nothing there that catches a fingernail, even the pitiful irregular edges, the castings on these things must have been atrocious from the foundry. Bought a couple cans of engine paint to clean it up a little. Bought some naval jelly to try and clean up the exhaust manifolds, but forgot the exhaust paint so that might have to wait for tomorrow morning. Gonna look pretty alright when I'm done but it's been a huge messy pain in the *** so far. Once the heads are out I'm gonna see what Dan's Cylinder Head wants for lead time to check the head surfaces for flatness but I don't plan on spending any money on the heads if I don't have to.

 

[sireland67]

When you get around to assembling the motor, make sure you spray the head gaskets with permatex copper spray-a-gasket, follow the directions on the can and don't put any antifreeze or water in the motor for 24 hours to allow the gasket to cure.

 

[jarvitron]

Yeah, I have a can of spray a gasket and some reglur permatex for the timing chain cover and areas of the oil pan gasket, honestly, now that some of the mating surfaces are free of built up debris I'll have a less leaky motor overall. Now if you'll excuse me I have like 45 slimy bolts to clean.

 

[sireland67]

If you have a little time, get a cheap container with a lid.
Mineral spirits does wonders for greasy bolts.
Shake the container once in a while, the grease will almost dissolve.

 

[jarvitron]

Nice, I have a coffee can full of water pump bolts degucking now. Did a good clean and mediocre degrease of the timing cover, the gasket surfaces are as clean as I can get em' and there's significantly less gook in the crannies. There's two places I know the paint will bubble up eventually because I didn't get in there with a Q-tip but whatever, it'll look better than nothing.

 

[jarvitron]

Here's the valve covers getting cleaned up.

And here they are painted.

And here's the intake.

It's not all that impressive but that represents about six hours of scrubbing **** and naval jelly and paint stripper and workin' hard. The intake manifold is a pretty halfass job, I didn't dry it out before I painted it, just wiped it down, so it's runny and groddy, but I'm in no mood to fix it, that thing is fit for anchor duty and little else.

Exhaust manifolds I decided needed a coat of paint too, so I jellied em and scrubbed em and they're drying out in my oven right now. The heat shield is already painted, looks pretty good, I think it'll be impressive once I get it back together.

Speaking of the reason I tore the thing down, got the passenger head off and cleaned, it's in great shape, no head gasket push on this side. There's nothing untoward going on in the bores, they look clean, no ridge. Just some carbon that wipes off with a rag. Pistons, as was the custom in 1973, are a billion miles down in the hole at the top of travel. 675 heads. Piston crowns have no marking, possibly standard? Maybe those 83k miles are original. Gonna shopvac out the carbon that fell off the head when I shook it and put it back together now. I'll tell you how the driver side looks when I get that mug off.

Timing chain cover is looking sharp, but the harmonic balancer has a wear ring. The seal on the cover seems "OK". Not soft as a new seal but still flexible. My walking distance parts store is backordered till Monday so I do believe I'll "risk it" with the old seal, and pull the balancer and sealsaver it when/if I feel like it. Got some spark plugs.

 

[jarvitron]

Here's the exhaust all painty.

Impressed by how well this VHT exhaust paint flows out, it's hiding a LOT of my eff ups in a way that the engine paint I bought (rustoleum brand) didn't. Maybe next time it's VHT all the way.

 

[jarvitron]

I failed to take any good before pictures, but this is what the valve covers and manifolds looked like when I started. The intake was black with spots of blue showing through and covered in baked on grease. You can see the two square inches of paint that were still stuck to the timing chain case.