Blueprint 408 cooling system questions.

[yellow rose]

Agree with most all except the 160 degree part , with a tall unheated intake , mine wont even run right untill it hits 185-190-----------

Hmmmm...maybe a booster change...wait...you have EFI don’t you??? That should run as soon as you hit the key. Very strange.

 

[famous bob]

Hmmmm...maybe a booster change...wait...you have EFI don’t you??? That should run as soon as you hit the key. Very strange.

It does start very quickly , but after I installed the victor intake , I haver to pedal it one time for it to still start quickly. Some of that can be tuned out , but hasnt been a problem. Always has not wanted to run right untill it reaches the temp. tho---

 

[12many]

Here’s something for anyone wondering about why something runs hot, or hotter than you might think it should. Take my vans previous setup as an example: 410 stroker with ceramic coated headers, iron heads, mild cam and 9.75 cr. All under a doghouse with an large tube two-row aluminum radiator, 13” fixed aluminum 6 blade engine driven fan, a parts store 8 vane pump with plate, and a 160 thermostat. Cruising and racing temps ran anywhere from 170-180, at stops it would climb a little as I had no shroud. But worked fine no issues considering the doghouse. Then for cooling between rounds at the strip I installed a high cfm electric Derale rad fan w/shroud, and a billet Moroso electric water pump, with a gutted thermostat. Now it runs about 190+/-. Better at idle because of the shroud, but otherwise it runs a little hotter, still acceptable though. AND, I’ve added more air intake to the front of the radiator with an underside scoop. So why the increase in temps. What is happening with the flow of coolant that has caused the increase in temps? (I know why by the way)

 

[12many]

One pump moves more than the other....guess which one.

 

[B3422w5]

Agree with most all except the 160 degree part , with a tall unheated intake , mine wont even run right untill it hits 185-190-----------

never had an issue running Victors at 150 at the track

 

[famous bob]

never had an issue running Victors at 150 at the track

why would any body ?/ were talking about street cars . Lota diff. between this and this------------

 

[B3422w5]

why would any body ?/ were talking about street cars . Lota diff. between this and this------------View attachment 1715690359 View attachment 1715690360

got ya.
You said” wouldn't run right” mine runs fine at the track.
Actually drive all my cars on the street, haven't seen that issue on the street either

 

[RustyRatRod]

Lotsa bullshit in this thread, but one thing I totally disagree with is changing to a cooler thermostat. No way in hell will that help. The thermostat has SQUAT to do with how hot an engine runs, yet you cannot tell people that who've got it stuck in their head otherwise. What I would recommend is either the stock 195 or the 180, BUT go with a good quality high flow like a Stewart.

 

[AJ/FormS]

The thermostat has SQUAT to do with how hot an engine runs,

I agree 100%
The stat sets the MINIMUM running temperature. If it should happen that your cooling system is so efficient that the coolant temp approaches the minimum,from some higher temperature, then the stat will begin to CLOSE to prevent further cooling.

 

[AJ/FormS]

There is a simple easy way to get an idea of your cooling system's efficiency;
Just measure the coolant temperature before it enters the rad and compare it to the coolant temp leaving the rad. You are looking for a temperature drop between 20 and 30 degrees. Obviously the closer it is to 30* the better.

By my trapspeed, my engine is at 430 hp. My entire cooling system was pirated off a 1973 Dart 318 with A/C, except;
I am running a Milodon hi flow pump with a plate, and
a hi-flow-stat, and a Ford thermostatic fan clutch.
The rad is 37 years old! and is about as basic a rad as be found. It's got patches on it's patches!
My combo has a 4-speed and will pull itself around the parking lot in first gear at 4 mph and less, for hours. The temp gauge never budges.
The minimum coolant temp is 205* at the stat house.
The max is 207* when the clutch fires up the 7 blade fan.
That 367 has no problems spinning that motherfan at 550 rpm, with the timing retarded to 5*BTDC, it never even slows down........
All you guys afraid to run a decent mechanical fan because of the imagined power loss, IMO, well I won't tell you what my opinion is.

Look it's real simple. Throw everything at it and you will get efficiency.
After that, you can start taking away efficiency to your hearts content. But here's the thing, if you can spin the tires all thru first gear, your engine obviously has more power than the chassis can handle. So even if you ascribe some crazy number of horsepower to a direct-drive fan at top-rpm, it matters not one bit when the tires are spinning.

Here is the full-boogy recipe, for testing purposes;
>Proper timing
>half decent fueling
...... at idle this is so easy; the engine is on the low-speed circuit so the mixture screws are all you need, and just run the minimum timing to make it as hard as possible, say oh IDK lemmee guess, how about 14*............. lol
>100% water
> a pump that doesn't cavitate
> a restrictor washer in the stat-house.
> molded hoses
> A fan shroud
> a direct drive 7-blade , hi-attack angle, all steel factory-style fan
> a decent belt, that fits the V-grooves, and that won't slip
> a rad that passes water, where it runs out the bottom hose as fast as you pour it in the top, and that air flies thru the fins, and that is able to create a 30* temp drop thru the rad, at idle, fully stopped.This is the time, for a streeter, that the cooling system is taxed to the max.
> a straitshot at the rad for incoming air. That means no evaporator in front of it . This for a full-boogy system.
> a decent drive ratio
> a hi-capacity oilpan, with extra oil in it for cooling
> a stand-alone oil-cooler for an automatic trans equipped car.

Start at the top and keep building your system until you start seeing a decent temp drop thru the rad. When you get to this point, then you can start back-pedalling; Go back to the top of the list, and start with a coolant mix to fit your climate. Then recheck the coolant drop. And so on.
Tips
>If you take a shortcut and do not see the temp-drop thru the rad; back the heck up.
>If it works at idle, it will work at speed unless your timing and or fueling are out to lunch.
>At idle with no load, your engine will like a lot of timing, easily into the hi-20s and mid-30s. Don't get lulled into thinking that more is better. The transfer-slot sync will dictate you idle-timing. Excessive idle-timing just leads to other issues a lil later in the rpm band. Humor me, just try 12 to 16 degrees. Even the venerable 292/508 cam (the biggest I have tuned) will idle very nicely on 14*, after she gets the bypass air that she craves.
>If all else fails, go look at your skirt clearances and especially the ring gaps.. Retarded timing will cook the rings, and tighten up the gaps. If the engine gets to dragging the rings up and down 3.5 to 4 inches at a crack, that's gonna make some heat. The rings only have three ways to get rid of the heat, which is into the oil, and into the pistons, and into the cylinder walls.

 

[yellow rose]

Lotsa bullshit in this thread, but one thing I totally disagree with is changing to a cooler thermostat. No way in hell will that help. The thermostat has SQUAT to do with how hot an engine runs, yet you cannot tell people that who've got it stuck in their head otherwise. What I would recommend is either the stock 195 or the 180, BUT go with a good quality high flow like a Stewart.

Yep. That is the MINIMUM engine temperature. If you run a 180 thermostat and the car is constantly at 195 that tells you the cooling system will only maintain 195 under load.

You could drop a 120 degree thermostat in there (if there is such a thing)and it would STLL be at 195 under load.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Yep. That is the MINIMUM engine temperature. If you run a 180 thermostat and the car is constantly at 195 that tells you the cooling system will only maintain 195 under load.

You could drop a 120 degree thermostat in there (if there is such a thing)and it would STLL be at 195 under load.

Yup and no matter HOW HARD you try to tell people, they WILL NOT listen.

 

[famous bob]

Lotsa bullshit in this thread, but one thing I totally disagree with is changing to a cooler thermostat. No way in hell will that help. The thermostat has SQUAT to do with how hot an engine runs, yet you cannot tell people that who've got it stuck in their head otherwise. What I would recommend is either the stock 195 or the 180, BUT go with a good quality high flow like a Stewart.

Agree w/ that . My old hemi car made more power the hotter it got , always spun the 14 and 16`s when around 230 , tried to keep it around 190ish.
Bill Jenkins said in one of his books ''in the early'' prostock yrs. , that his engines made the most power right before they were hot enough to melt the added material he had in his heads ----------??

 

[yellow rose]

BTW, I went out and looked at my Milodon water pump. I thought it was a 6 blade pump, but it has 8. I need to find my notes from all my discussions with Milodon, Evans, Stewart Components and a couple of other places that I took while sorting out my cooling system.

Just an FYI, as I think I posted my pump only had 6 blades. My memory sucks, which is why I take notes.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I was pretty sure my Milodon was a plated 8. I questioned your post in my mind but.......

 

[yellow rose]

I was pretty sure my Milodon was a plated 8. I questioned your post in my mind but.......

You should always question ALL my posts...I do...that’s why made me go out and look at the pump. It’s sitting on the shelf.

I should find my notes and see what I wrote.

 

[AJ/FormS]

You should always question ALL my posts.

Nah; you're smarter than me; I compare my posts to yours (and other smarter guys than me on FABO), lol. I throw a lotta likes and agrees ..... because I like or agree,lol. And I know it's always nice to have another pair of eyes on strange or unusual problems.
Besides; I knew you'd be back on that one,lol.

 

[yellow rose]

Nah; you're smarter than me; I compare my posts to yours (and other smarter guys than me on FABO), lol. I throw a lotta likes and agrees ..... because I like or agree,lol. And I know it's always nice to have another pair of eyes on strange or unusual problems.
Besides; I knew you'd be back on that one,lol.

LOL...that’s a very BAD policy!!! Always verify everything I say. No doubt I’m a bit wacky. My wife will swear to that in court.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Yeah I know, but I learn something from you almost every time I read your posts.
I used to think I was pretty smart. I mean I didn't actually believe it, but was conditioned to think/believe it by my employers who I guess just couldn't find anyone smarter to work for less,lol.
But then I came to FABO, and found out where all the really smart guys hang out, and so then I had some catching up to do. But I think there will not be enough years left in my life to ever fully catch up.
I mean between you and all the other great guys, who I get to spar with, this place is such a great place to hang out, and learn stuff. I love, and thank you all.

 

[mgoblue9798]

Okay I’m using the zerex American vehicle formula, it’s orange and it’s pre mixed 50/50. Will a shroud help at higher speeds? I took a heat gun to it, and it reads 203 ish at the thermostat. I filled the radiator up all the Way to the top, and turned on the heater and let it run The gauge does register 180 when I feel the thermostat open.

Before spending a bunch of money, make sure the edges of the radiator are sealed off around the core support forcing the air to go through the radiator rather than around it. Even just a little gap between the radiator and core support can make a huge difference.

May need to fashion some type of weatherstrip to do this. Factory shroud will only help cooling in relation to the fan running. Like the fan itself it will have little impact at highway speeds. It is an absolute necessity for driving around town though.

 

[mgoblue9798]

My experiance is that they will run a little cooler after the rings seat , mine took a while to seat !

With a flat tappet cam and old cast or chrome rings they would run hot on break in. With moly rings and a roller cam break in is over in the first 10 minutes or so of run time.

 

[famous bob]

Yep. That is the MINIMUM engine temperature. If you run a 180 thermostat and the car is constantly at 195 that tells you the cooling system will only maintain 195 under load.

You could drop a 120 degree thermostat in there (if there is such a thing)and it would STLL be at 195 under load.

Agree, just might take it a hair longer to get up there , but will anyway .

 

[Bewy]

One of the problems I have found with w/pumps, in different brands of engines, is that there is too much gap between the impeller vanes & the housing. This gap leaves a space for the liquid to escape, instead of being captured by the vanes & pumped through the engine. Obviously, the larger this gap is, the more liquid escapes & the less efficient the cooling is. I weld a thin donut shape piece of steel to the impeller to close off the gap & this always gives a noticeable reduction in temp.

 

[famous bob]

never had an issue running Victors at 150 at the track

150 IN THE LIFE OF A STREET CAR WOULD PROBLY BE PRONE TO MORE AIR POLUTION , AND NOT GETTING HOT ENOUGH TO KEEP MOISTURE OUT OF YOUR OIL ! HELL my mufflers sweat more than that .

 

[famous bob]

One of the problems I have found with w/pumps, in different brands of engines, is that there is too much gap between the impeller vanes & the housing. This gap leaves a space for the liquid to escape, instead of being captured by the vanes & pumped through the engine. Obviously, the larger this gap is, the more liquid escapes & the less efficient the cooling is. I weld a thin donut shape piece of steel to the impeller to close off the gap & this always gives a noticeable reduction in temp.

Interesting , don`t suppose u got a pic --------?