Borgeson Swap Problem

-
davidcribbs

davidcribbs

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2015
Messages
73
Reaction score
16
Location
Texas
To give some background to the changes to the suspension and steering on the car;

The complete front suspension has been switched over to QA1, including the K Member. The accessories on the front of the engine are March ribbed belt pulleys, and the accessories are March as well, which includes the PS pump.

I had what I believe was the original steering gear box on the car, and of course there was a lot of slop in it, so it was time for a change. I read up on OEM, and other manufacturers, and it looked like Borgeson was a good upgrade. I went with the coupler from Bergman, and the fitting kit as well. Everything came out okay with a lot of manipulation and cussing getting the old box out. The new box went in easily, and bolted up great to the QA1 K Member. The Bergman fittings and coupler worked great as well, and in a few hours had the new box and steering column back in place. All seemed to go well until I went to drive it. It felt like the amount of power assist from the pump was very little, and although the steering wasn't as hard as a manual steering setup, it definitely wasn't what I was expecting from the new setup.

I reached out to Peter Bergman, and he was a huge help. If you ever run in to challenges, I recommend you reach out to him. He is a wealth of knowledge. He had me take the PS pump valve apart and send him some photos. He thought it may have some crap in the system that was causing the piston not to work efficiently. When I took the valve apart, it was actually pretty clean. So Peter had me remove the shims on the piston, and put it back together. All went well with removing the shims, but once I got it back together I still have the issue. It is possibly better with the increased pressure from removing the two shims on the PS pump piston, but still it is not as smooth or easy to turn as I would expect. I thought that maybe in removing the steering column and putting it back together that something might be infringing on it moving smoothly, but that did not seem to help either. I did notice that sitting in my garage with the car running, it seems to turn pretty smooth from one side to the other, and not be as stiff. When I get out on the road though the steering just seems stiff, and not intuitive. It is more stiff to initiate the turn, but it is stiff during the complete turning radius as well no matter what rpm the engine is running at.

I was pretty excited about the upgrade, but I am a hair away from returning the gear box, unless I can get this figured out. I am interested if someone has run into this issue previously? Or if someone has used the March PS pump, and found it to not produce enough pressure, was there an alternative pump that you used?

Thanks for any help you might have.
 
That's why that box was invented to fix Chrysler's oversteer from their shitty box.... everyone I've talked to love the Borgeson setup
 
I just got my car back from the shop after a Borgeson PS install. I used the U joint from Borgeson along with a pressure reducing kit from Borgeson to lower the pump pressure from 1200lbs to 900lbs. I've only had the car for a day with the new set up but so far I'm loving it. Wish I was more helpful.
 
jcolman said:
I just got my car back from the shop after a Borgeson PS install. I used the U joint from Borgeson along with a pressure reducing kit from Borgeson to lower the pump pressure from 1200lbs to 900lbs. I've only had the car for a day with the new set up but so far I'm loving it. Wish I was more helpful.
Click to expand...
Was really looking forward to it, but not real pleased with the results. I can live with it, but didn't blow my mind. Glad yours is good.
 
Did the pump work correctly with the original steering box?
 
its impossible for us to know how stiff it is.. does it feel like a modern car of is it even stiffer then that? is something possibly binding? whats the alignment like? does it return to center properly? think some miles on it will loosen it up?
 
abodyjoe said:
its impossible for us to know how stiff it is.. does it feel like a modern car of is it even stiffer then that? is something possibly binding? whats the alignment like? does it return to center properly? think some miles on it will loosen it up?
Click to expand...
That was the best way I could describe it. I will work on my descriptive English. Alignment is tight. Too stiff to return to center.
 
davidcribbs said:
That was the best way I could describe it. I will work on my descriptive English. Alignment is tight. Too stiff to return to center.
Click to expand...

What are your alignment measurements? Toe, caster, camber?

If it turns easy and smooth at a stop, but not on the road, that sounds like an alignment issue to me.
 
Try jacking up the front wheels turn back and forth see if there's any binding.
 
Tech857 said:
Try jacking up the front wheels turn back and forth see if there's any binding.
Click to expand...
I did this, and it doesn't appear to be binding anywhere. It moves smooth (no catching spot) from side to side, just harder to turn then I would have thought. I had the same idea that something was stopping it from turning easier, but I can't find anything along those lines. I just got it back from the front end shop getting the alignment finalized, and he thinks it is great. Must be me? Guess I need to hit the gym some more.
 
67Dart273 said:
THIS
Click to expand...
Camber left front -1.2, and Camber right front -.9. Caster is 6.4 on the left, and 6.8 on the right. Toe is .15 on both sides. The front end guy seemed to think the additional force to turn it may be attributed to the QA1 front end I installed. It handles great, just more work to steer it.
 
davidcribbs said:
Camber left front -1.2, and Camber right front -.9. Caster is 6.4 on the left, and 6.8 on the right. Toe is .15 on both sides. The front end guy seemed to think the additional force to turn it may be attributed to the QA1 front end I installed. It handles great, just more work to steer it.
Click to expand...

It's difficult to articulate what 'hard to steer' means over the internet, but the Borgeson box gives quicker turning and less of the over-pumped feel of the stock system. That's exactly why people buy them. It may just be that you had a different expectation?
 
Phreakish said:
It's difficult to articulate what 'hard to steer' means over the internet, but the Borgeson box gives quicker turning and less of the over-pumped feel of the stock system. That's exactly why people buy them. It may just be that you had a different expectation?
Click to expand...
Agreed! I was expecting it to drive like my 2020 truck, but the steering is stiffer than that by quite a bit. The whole front end, including all new ball joints, struts, sway bars, etc...that I added with the QA1 setup have maybe 1,000 miles on it. It might loosen up a bit in time, but I am sure I will get used to it. It is now all poly bushings as well, and I am sure that stiffens everything up too. My original box that was in it was in bad shape, so I can't complain really. Surprised I didn't end up in a ditch with the play in that steering wheel.
 
That's massive caster.
I would never set a customers car over +3,
- less normally for ease of parking.
Unless you're an autocross driver, or track racer like myself, big caster isn't nec.
Caster actually has you lifting one side of the car, more caster = more lift , - why ?
Directional stability and self-centering only goes sooo far !
 
Last edited:
BergmanAutoCraft said:
Call me to discuss further. After selling hundreds of kits and installing many myself, maybe I can help.
Click to expand...
If this is Peter, then I have been speaking with you. You've helped explain a lot of the system, and what I should look for. I appreciated the help. I can still give you a call Peter if you think I am missing something.
 
inertia said:
That's massive caster.
I would never set a customers car over +3,
- less normally for ease of parking.
Unless you're an autocross driver, or track racer like myself, big caster isn't nec.
Caster actually has you lifting one side of the car, more caster = more lift , - why ?
Directional stability and self-centering only goes sooo far !
Click to expand...
It originally had 3 for caster, but if I remember correctly the instructions say to add 3 more in to caster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top