brake hardware interchangeable

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desy500

desy500

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I just purchased a 65 valiant 200 , 225 4 speed , I need to replace bake brakes , looking at the springs on the car , they don't match the springs in the kits for sale. the springs holding the shoes on are the 69 version with the cups on them , I was wandering if I should but them back to the springs that came on the 65. any help would be great.
 
Its been a long time since I worked on an early A, but if you are talking about the little compression springs inside the wheel cylinders,then they are sorta married to the master cylinder type. If you have the OEM M/C then yes reinstall the original springs, so long as they properly fit the new cups and seats, and are in fine shape.Otherwise the kit manufacturer has matched the cups seats and springs together.Those springs have 3 jobs; 1) to keep the cups out against the metal plugs so that the cups dont go sideways, and 2) to keep the edges against the cylinder walls, and 3) to not wear out or damage the cups while doing jobs 1 and 2. Not rocket science, but important none the less.Pics would be nice.
-Now if you are talking about the brake shoe retaining-springs, that retain the shoes to the backing plates; New story. Those springs are matched to the little retaining rods, and to the spring seat/retainer-cup,and to the shoes. They are a set. If the shoe manufacturer supplied them;use them.They may be a "change-up". Just make sure the shoes arent flopping around after the install is complete.
-One more thing, if you are a first timer; Before you take anything apart, match the new shoes to whats on the car to be sure they are dimensionally the same, and all the holes are in the same places. And finally, do one side at a time, so that if you get lost you have a pattern on the other side.
-If you have self adjusters its imperative not to mix the adjusters up;side for side and north/south. One is left-hand thread,and the other is RH. And almost all 9in parts are different from 10 inchers. And the shoes have to be correctly oriented; long linings to the front.And again, if you have self-adjusters the return springs are different. Dont forget to service the adjusters. I put anti-seize on the threads.I also polish out the 6 places where the shoes rub on the backing plates; 3 front and 3 rear.This smoothes their engagement and if you put a tiny bit of anti-seize there it may quieten them.
-And if you dont know when the last time was that the wheel cylinders were done, I highly recommend that you do them now before the new linings go on. There is a high degree of probability that they will leak in their new working location; ruining your brandy new shoes. If honing is required ,you can do that right on the car, just block the compensating port in the M/C by locking the brake pedal down about an inch. That will prevent all the brake-fluid from running out.Of course new cups etc. are recommended.Bleeding is not the scary job everyone thinks it is. Take your time. It will be ok.
 
If you do brake work on drums, you should always rebuild or replace the wheel cylinders every time.
Disc cylinders I would only rebuild after 100,000 miles or if they ever give me trouble. The drum advice is close to industry standard, the disc advice is mine.
 
I like the later style brakes. I tell them my car is a 72 Duster and get the shoes, hardware, and spring kits and they go on and work fine.
 
thanks for the help , I had a 65 dart in 69 , but that's the last time I did mopar drum brakes. looks like the last owner put all new lines on it , and back right has a newer cylinder , but I want to redo everything on the back while I got it apart. looks like emergence brake hung up on the right shoe , may need to redo all the cables too , it is not working right now. again thanks !
 
AJ/FormS said:
Its been a long time since I worked on an early A, but if you are talking about the little compression springs inside the wheel cylinders,then they are sorta married to the master cylinder type. If you have the OEM M/C then yes reinstall the original springs, so long as they properly fit the new cups and seats, and are in fine shape.Otherwise the kit manufacturer has matched the cups seats and springs together.Those springs have 3 jobs; 1) to keep the cups out against the metal plugs so that the cups dont go sideways, and 2) to keep the edges against the cylinder walls, and 3) to not wear out or damage the cups while doing jobs 1 and 2. Not rocket science, but important none the less.Pics would be nice.
-Now if you are talking about the brake shoe retaining-springs, that retain the shoes to the backing plates; New story. Those springs are matched to the little retaining rods, and to the spring seat/retainer-cup,and to the shoes. They are a set. If the shoe manufacturer supplied them;use them.They may be a "change-up". Just make sure the shoes arent flopping around after the install is complete.
-One more thing, if you are a first timer; Before you take anything apart, match the new shoes to whats on the car to be sure they are dimensionally the same, and all the holes are in the same places. And finally, do one side at a time, so that if you get lost you have a pattern on the other side.
-If you have self adjusters its imperative not to mix the adjusters up;side for side and north/south. One is left-hand thread,and the other is RH. And almost all 9in parts are different from 10 inchers. And the shoes have to be correctly oriented; long linings to the front.And again, if you have self-adjusters the return springs are different. Dont forget to service the adjusters. I put anti-seize on the threads.I also polish out the 6 places where the shoes rub on the backing plates; 3 front and 3 rear.This smoothes their engagement and if you put a tiny bit of anti-seize there it may quieten them.
-And if you dont know when the last time was that the wheel cylinders were done, I highly recommend that you do them now before the new linings go on. There is a high degree of probability that they will leak in their new working location; ruining your brandy new shoes. If honing is required ,you can do that right on the car, just block the compensating port in the M/C by locking the brake pedal down about an inch. That will prevent all the brake-fluid from running out.Of course new cups etc. are recommended.Bleeding is not the scary job everyone thinks it is. Take your time. It will be ok.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the info. It is the springs that hold the shoes to the backing plate I was asking about. When you refer to the shoes flopping around what do you mean?
 
You are confusing people (including me) with your wording. I also didn't know what "cups" on shoe springs means, so was also thinking "inside wheel cylinders?". You refer to the small coil springs that go over the shoe retaining pins. I think all had cups to seat the spring (going back to 1940's?). Perhaps yours was missing parts. Re wheel cylinder "spring cups", all should have those (or a tightly wound spring end that works same). That is an improved design that elimates the need for a "residual valve" in the master cylinder port. Like post #5, I also use the later "hardware kit" (cheaper, more available). I think the newer self-adjusters are an improvement.
 
Sorry I was talking about the cups on the back of the retainer springs , ( that's what they call them in the service manual ) from the posts , it sounds like I can use either one. here is a pix of what is on the back shoes , the front still have the 1965 version.

View attachment brake spring.jpg
 
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