brake issues, help me get my car driving

-
yeah

yeah

The gang’s all here
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
259
Reaction score
53
Location
Mount prospect il
Hey guys so ive been trying to figure out all the kinks in my car to get it road worthy, and the last thing left is my brakes. Wondering if somebody could help.

Car is a 1973 dodge dart, manual brakes and it used to be a full drum car till i changed it to this.

I have .Willwood four piston up front, right stuff single piston out back, new hard and flex lines, new wilwood master cylinder which is 1-1/16 inch bore, and the stock bronze distribution block.

Now my problem is , that my brakes feel soft. when i press the pedal there seems to be barely any resistance. The pedal stops like a inch from the floor. When i driving it seems like the brakes wont do anything till the pedal is on the floor and that's sketchy as hell. Ive bled the dam system so many times, and using different ways of bleeding it. nothing helped. Im pretty confused what else i could do.:banghead:

thanks
peter
 
Sounds...........like............air..........in.........the...........system.

How are the calipers mounted? Bleeders at the top?

How are you bleeding the thing?
 
The bleeders are up to , trust me I checked a bunch of times hah . I've gravity bled it , I've used the pump thing that connects to the compressor and bleeds it . And I bled it with my friend also . I've heard that there might be some stubborn air pockets that are trapped in the system , that I just can't get out . One of my friends said to tap the calipers with a rubber mallet while bleeding . I was gonna try that . But I figured that I would ask on here and see if maybe my master was to small/ big or the stock distribution block was not good for disk brakes
 
It does sound like air in the system, the only other problem could be a defective Master cyl. Brake fluid bypassing the piston seals.
 
Since you bled each caliper real well, and the bleeders are up, I also suspect the MC. Did you "bench bleed" it alone until you saw no bubbles at all in the recirc tubing (clear plastic)? You don't need to remove the MC, indeed I always pump it installed, using the car's pedal. May take 50 strokes to get all the air bubbles out. See youtube. Otherwise, see if there is any "lost motion" in the pedal rod to MC. You can tell that as you bench bleed. Air bubbles should start moving in the tubes as soon as the pedal starts moving.
 
Yup. Bench bleed. If the master does not seem to be..................



Get yourself some inverted flare plugs and unions to fit various fittings in the car. You can separate everything from the master, you can plug off the calipers from the junction at the steel lines and the flex lines. This will quickly tell you what.

Most of what you want is going to be 3/16 or 1/4" plugs and unions:

440269-131280.jpg


440262-131280.jpg


Even O'Reallys has these in their brass fittings.
 
Hey guys thanks for all the answers , but the prob is that when I got the master I bench bled it . Then also bled it on the car :( that's why I'm so stumped, why my brakes suck
 
I second post #6. He is recommending that you make some "test lines" on the MC and see if it produces a stiff pedal with those. You want them facing upward so you can get all the air out. Have someone SLOWLY press the pedal and tighten the top plug when you see pure fluid flowing. Then lift and press the pedal again. If it still sinks, you know the problem is the MC, and please let us know the result. You can probably make just one tube and test the front port, then the back, keeping the other port with the recirc tube. Many find that the purty, expensive stuff isn't always great quality.
 
The other thing I may have not expressed clearly is that I have some pressure in the pedal but it's not until I get near the floor that I actually start getting noticeable pressure, at the same time it does feel soft not solid like it should be. There's probably still air somewhere in the system I'm just stumped as to why because I've literally bled the whole system including the master at least fifteen times
 
Ok so it's not the master cylinder , I did that test with the lines . And pedal is pretty stiff . Deff a difference than before . So now I'm still confused on what it could be . Anybody have another guesses ??????? ?????
 
When bleeding the system manually while your friend holds the pumped up pedal down and you pop the bleeder open does it come out straight fluid?

Or does it spit and hiss and put out just a little fluid?

And you are starting at the furtherist wheel away from the master cylinder right?

It would be rr wheel , Lr , rf , LF , and I would do it until each wheel gives solid fluid with no bubbles or hisses then move onto the the next wheel.


And make sure you don't run the master cylinder dry of fluid , if you do you have to start all over again
 
It just comes out normally . No hissing or sputtering from what I remember the last time doing it . I'm gonna try bleeding it again this weekend. What would the hissing etc... Signify ???? And yup I'm starting from the furthest wheel from the master . And absolutely never ran the master dry . It really don't makes sense to me why my brakes suck. I'm really thinking something could be off , like my junction block/ distribution block . Or the size of my master .
 
Or maybe even the brake pedal/ maste pushrod adjustment ? Could that be it . Where it's adjusted to much out or to in ??
 
yeah said:
It just comes out normally . No hissing or sputtering from what I remember the last time doing it . I'm gonna try bleeding it again this weekend. What would the hissing etc... Signify ???? And yup I'm starting from the furthest wheel from the master . And absolutely never ran the master dry . It really don't makes sense to me why my brakes suck. I'm really thinking something could be off , like my junction block/ distribution block . Or the size of my master .
Click to expand...


the hissing would be air still coming out of the lines, some brake systems just have to have the **** bleed out of them.

Especially with a whole new system
 
Ahh I get you , the prob is I bled it manually , with a pump and gravity bled them also .
 
yeah said:
Ahh I get you , the prob is I bled it manually , with a pump and gravity bled them also .
Click to expand...


I prefer to use the two man system myself.

Have one person in the car pumping the brakes , and I like them to pump it several times not just once before holding pressure on the pedal .

Then the other person releases the bleeder valve and gets a good strong shot out of it.
 
Yea the old school way works best, that's for sure . Done it same thing as before lol . That's why I'm so stumped on this . Last thing to gety car driving safely and yup as usuall biting me in the *** .
 
I never push the pedal all the way to the floor when I'm using the pedal while bleeding the brakes! I just feel that at the end of the travel there may be a lull instead of constant pressure! Maybe try that?? Just thinking out loud!! Geof
 
At this point any ideas , tips , tricks or anything I will accept haha . Really wanna get this figured out
 
I didn't see mention of a proportion valve. I don't know if having or not would be a factor either.
I have seen a whole bunch of master cylinders die during the bench bleeding process.
They'll get stroked several times as fast and much farther at the vise than they ever would in normal service. That isn't the way it should be done.
I don't know that's the case here either. Another master cylinder is the next thing I would try.
 
So your basically saying I could have killed my
Master by bench bleeding it ? Ok . Well I don't know what tht brass block is called that the lines from the master run to , distribution block or junction block whatever it's called . My whole thing was . Were they different for drum cars and disk brake cars ???
 
cosgig said:
I never push the pedal all the way to the floor when I'm using the pedal while bleeding the brakes!
Click to expand...

Neither do I, I place a small piece of 1"x6" pine board under the pedal so it can't be pushed to the floor.

I've been told that it can offset the proportioning valve.
 
I have found parking the car on an incline, with master cylinder up hill, helps. Often when pedal is moved slightly from up position, and back up, bubbles will rise in fluid. I start with that, then individual at each wheel is easy. My wife is good help on the pedal, I stop valve before full travel. Use clear hose into clear jar, so you can see bubbles if they exist.

If the pedal rod is not properly adjusted, so it returns fully, the master cylinder may not bleed correctly.
 
cosgig said:
I never push the pedal all the way to the floor when I'm using the pedal while bleeding the brakes! I just feel that at the end of the travel there may be a lull instead of constant pressure! Maybe try that?? Just thinking out loud!! Geof
Click to expand...


Have always pushed it to the floor , never had an issue in 30+ years of doing all sorts of brakes
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top