Broad question from a rookie

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CSL DART

CSL DART

1971 DART SWINGER
Joined
Mar 11, 2018
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Location
Beaumont CA
I'm seriously considering building my first engine and I'm thinking about trying to build a 360 into a stroker 408. My goal with the car is to build a sturdy 400+ hp freeway flyer that still has some bottom end. I'm planning to upgrade the steering and suspension, the rear end, and probably switch the 904 tranny for a 727. I basically want to make sure the car can easily handle the extra horsepower without breaking. If someone has time, I would like any suggestions on a cam and heads that would fit best for providing the best of all worlds. I'm also curious about how to select the rear end gears because I don't fully understand it other than the lower gears like a 323 are better for top end. I apologise, I'm a rookie hungry for information lol! Thanks
 
Keep the 904 and build it with good components. Plenty strong enough especially if you aren't drag racing it. Lighter than a 727, uses less hp too.

Ported iron, LA-X, Ede, procomps there are a bunch of heads... flow is where it's at for making HP. Stock ede's won't make more than a true 430-440 without porting, just not enough port volume and air flow, regardess of what many will say.

I'd find a Hyd Roller block and build that as the roller stuff works well and cams are easy to get.

Camshaft depends on how rowdy you can handle at idle. :)

You don't need a stroker to make 400-450.

Brian at Indio Motor Machine is pretty good and has a nice handle on building stuff.
 
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If your goal is 400ish hp ?
I don't think it's worth the time effort and money to stroke the motor ?
You can get 400 hp out of a stock stroke fairly easy .
Heads is where you want to spend the money !
Where are you located ?
 
crackedback said:
Keep the 904 and build it with good components. Plenty strong enough especially if you aren't drag racing it. Lighter than a 727, uses less hp too.

Ported iron, LA-X, Ede, procomps there are a bunch of heads... flow is where it's at for making HP. Stock ede's won't make more than a true 430-440 without porting, just not enough port volume and air flow, regardess of what many will say.

I'd find a Hyd Roller block and build that as the roller stuff works well and cams are easy to get.

Camshaft depends on how rowdy you can handle at idle. :)
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Thanks for the information, I have heard the 904 is plenty strong with heavy duty upgrades, but hadn't seen it rated to handle more than 400hp. I have tons to learn regarding the heads and the cam but I'm slowly learning. When you mentioned a roller block are you talking about a later model Magnum 360 block? I'm so new it's pathetic lol! I've read that the LA 360's have a flat tappet cam? So I'm just guessing about needing a Magnum block... thanks for your time and your help
 
jimmer said:
If your goal is 400ish hp ?
I don't think it's worth the time effort and money to stroke the motor ?
You can get 400 hp out of a stock stroke fairly easy .
Heads is where you want to spend the money !
Where are you located ?
Click to expand...
 
CSL DART said:
building my first engine
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Just my 2 cents. If this is your first engine, build it as stock as possible. maybe ported heads, a more aggressive cam, headers, dual exhaust, better intake and carb, IE bolt on stuff. Unless you have someone very knowledgeable to guide you, internal engine mods can get expensive and troublesome in a hurry. will your valves clear your pistons with the popup on the piston and the high rise of your cam. do you have the correct length push rods etc. Not trying to scare you, just as with most things you have to learn to crawl before you can run.
 
jimmer said:
If your goal is 400ish hp ?
I don't think it's worth the time effort and money to stroke the motor ?
You can get 400 hp out of a stock stroke fairly easy .
Heads is where you want to spend the money !
Where are you located ?
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your response, I'm in Southern California. I have an LA 360 in the car (think it's a 77') but I've read they have a flat tappet cam. Do I need a later model Magnum block for a hydraulic cam? I'm not sure if the Edelbrock performer heads would be overkill?
 
Dana67Dart said:
Just my 2 cents. If this is your first engine, build it as stock as possible. maybe ported heads, a more aggressive cam, headers, dual exhaust, better intake and carb, IE bolt on stuff. Unless you have someone very knowledgeable to guide you, internal engine mods can get expensive and troublesome in a hurry. will your valves clear your pistons with the popup on the piston and the high rise of your cam. do you have the correct length push rods etc. Not trying to scare you, just as with most things you have to learn to crawl before you can run.
Click to expand...
 
The block you have will work. Not a roller. The good roller block to find is a 360 from a truck or van with FI 88-91 timeframe. They are out there.

There are a lot of ways to go, however, heads make power. That's the end of the story.
 
Thank you, sounds like good advice! The car is already a nice driver and has a 360 with some extras. It has a Holley 4bbl(still don't know the cfm), weiand intake, Mopar exhaust manifold off a 340 and H pipe dual exhaust. Sounds like a decent cam too... I'm probably just being greedy for horsepower lol
 
crackedback said:
The block you have will work. Not a roller. The good roller block to find is a 360 from a truck or van with FI 88-91 timeframe. They are out there.

There are a lot of ways to go, however, heads make power. That's the end of the story.
Click to expand...
crackedback said:
The block you have will work. Not a roller. The good roller block to find is a 360 from a truck or van with FI 88-91 timeframe. They are out there.

There are a lot of ways to go, however, heads make power. That's the end of the story.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your time, I appreciate it
 
CSL DART said:
probably just being greedy for horsepower lol
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As a wise FABO member showed me, If your need is to burn some rubber you need a torque converter with the correct stall speed. his recommendation was 2400-2800 as I recall. You want your peak torque to happen around the stall speed of the torque converter.
 
Required reading before asking a question that could have boundless opinions and routes to take. Get the books and have the i formation at your finger tips instead of asking the internet and getting half azzed dunked up replies from know nothing wanna bees.

Not to insult any replies given...
Consult the masters. Not the spectators.
Be ahead of the curve. Not in it. Read!
image.jpg
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You mean the books that say a factory car block is only good to 400 or 450hp... :)

Those are good reading as long as you whittle out the incorrect stuff.
 
Call Brian at IMM and ask about a 408 for freeway cruising, like your original post stated. You can do this with EQ iron heads(low price,great power) and stock rockers, a performer airgap intake, and a torque cam that will get along well with a tight converter and 3.23 gears. You should end up with a very fun cruiser motor with tons of torque from about 1800 rpm up.
 
if you want just "some torque" dont bother with a stroker
if you want enough torque to change the earths rotation when you stomp on the go pedal...then look into a stroker
 
Dana67Dart said:
As a wise FABO member showed me, If your need is to burn some rubber you need a torque converter with the correct stall speed. his recommendation was 2400-2800 as I recall. You want your peak torque to happen around the stall speed of the torque converter.
Click to expand...
A lot depends on the usage. I am going to use a 3200 stall converter behind a 408 street motor , peak torque is at 4600. That way it will have some lock up at cruise, yet some stall for launch. It needs to be a compromise. My 528 cu in , 850 hp drag motor, however, goes fastest with 1200 rpm OVER the torque peak.
 
Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and experience. I am planning on purchasing the two books on building Mopar small blocks. I actually owned them in the past, but I was too young and dumb to take the time to sit down and read them. If nothing else it's nice to get several views and opinions regarding an engine build. I'm in no hurry this time and even if it takes 5 years to build one, I'm okay with it. The car currently has a decent 360, but I'd actually like to buy an additional block and build from scratch so I can still enjoy the car while I'm fumbling through my first build. Thanks again to everyone!
 
CSL DART said:
Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and experience. I am planning on purchasing the two books on building Mopar small blocks. I actually owned them in the past, but I was too young and dumb to take the time to sit down and read them. If nothing else it's nice to get several views and opinions regarding an engine build. I'm in no hurry this time and even if it takes 5 years to build one, I'm okay with it. The car currently has a decent 360, but I'd actually like to buy an additional block and build from scratch so I can still enjoy the car while I'm fumbling through my first build. Thanks again to everyone!
Click to expand...
Good to see there is a relaxed approach on this. Taking your time is important. Smart idea on another block.

Before anybody starts in with the engine build advice, we all are going to need to know a few things. Is there a 1/4 mile goal? Or just the above description of power on demand? Is this mostly for curie? Hwy. driving? Is there an RPM at which you would like to cruie at? Once we all know and have an idea on where the build is going we can suggest a gear ratio/tire combination which will work in your favor. "Gregsdart" has a pretty sweet combo that may fit into your plans. Crackedback mentioned an excellent builder. If your so inclined and local enough, I'd use his guy.

As you mentioned in your opening post, the 904 will do just fine. No need for the 727.
On gears, you can select those first or last. If you select them last, there ratio is adjusted for the engine set up. If you pick them first, the engine is adjusted for the gear ratio to be used.
Confused? Look at it this way.
If you know you want to cruise the Hwy. once in a while for a few hours or hundred miles, & cruise at around no more than 3300 RPM's, a 3.23 and stock size tire will do that. This limits the cam size. Adjusting the tire size to a larger diameter will lower the rpm. (Possible smaller cam) Adjusting the gear ratio upwards to 3.55 to bring up the RPM (Back to the cruise RPM or higher) will allow a larger cam.
Don't get caught up in a big cam thinking. It is not always needed.
 
CSL DART said:
I'm seriously considering building my first engine and I'm thinking about trying to build a 360 into a stroker 408. My goal with the car is to build a sturdy 400+ hp freeway flyer that still has some bottom end. I'm planning to upgrade the steering and suspension, the rear end, and probably switch the 904 tranny for a 727. I basically want to make sure the car can easily handle the extra horsepower without breaking. If someone has time, I would like any suggestions on a cam and heads that would fit best for providing the best of all worlds. I'm also curious about how to select the rear end gears because I don't fully understand it other than the lower gears like a 323 are better for top end. I apologise, I'm a rookie hungry for information lol! Thanks
Click to expand...
It looks like you have the engine questions resolved/answered.

So, what did you want to know about broads?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Good to see there is a relaxed approach on this. Taking your time is important. Smart idea on another block.

Before anybody starts in with the engine build advice, we all are going to need to know a few things. Is there a 1/4 mile goal? Or just the above description of power on demand? Is this mostly for curie? Hwy. driving? Is there an RPM at which you would like to cruie at? Once we all know and have an idea on where the build is going we can suggest a gear ratio/tire combination which will work in your favor. "Gregsdart" has a pretty sweet combo that may fit into your plans. Crackedback mentioned an excellent builder. If your so inclined and local enough, I'd use his guy.

As you mentioned in your opening post, the 904 will do just fine. No need for the 727.
On gears, you can select those first or last. If you select them last, there ratio is adjusted for the engine set up. If you pick them first, the engine is adjusted for the gear ratio to be used.
Confused? Look at it this way.
If you know you want to cruise the Hwy. once in a while for a few hours or hundred miles, & cruise at around no more than 3300 RPM's, a 3.23 and stock size tire will do that. This limits the cam size. Adjusting the tire size to a larger diameter will lower the rpm. (Possible smaller cam) Adjusting the gear ratio upwards to 3.55 to bring up the RPM (Back to the cruise RPM or higher) will allow a larger cam.
Don't get caught up in a big cam thinking. It is not always needed.
Click to expand...
Hey thank you for the feedback. I'm a freeway flyer type of guy that doesn't want the car screaming rpm's at 80 mph, but having said that I'd still like some reasonable bottom end. I don't necessarily care about an 11 second quarter mile but I guess I'm looking for the best of all worlds. Ultimately I'd like to be able to drive the car hard without it breaking. I'm building it for no other reason than to simply to enjoy it and drive it as often as possible...
 
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