Butters "Winter Upgrades". . Starting a Little Early

[Map63Vette]

@Map63Vette Have you seen the AMP EFI Pro Evo + HC? It's their small packaged ECU with high current spark outputs so you don't have to use the quad spark module for "dumb" coils. It also has increased I/O over the old MS3X boxes. Very tempting to upgrade so I can add even more crap to it. You would have to use the Holley Dominator to be anywhere close to the amount of I/O, which would be well over $5K. It's only $1600 with a harness.
» MS3Pro EVO+ HC ECU

Be gone temptress!

Lol, I had not actually seen the +HC version before, but I haven't really cruised their options in general for a while either. I have considered upgrading several times as I wouldn't mind moving the whole system under the hood to free up my firewall a little more. Having two 20+ pin bulkheads through the firewall makes things a little busy at the back of my engine, plus the two QuadSparks sitting on my fender right now, especially now that I got my A/C installed and have even more hosing going on in that corner of the engine bay.

The I/O thing is borderline for me. I've used up most of what is available on my MS3X at this point, though some of it is more of a "just because I can" thing, not so much a "need to have". For instance, I used to run dual temp senders and had one for the gauge and one for the MS until I recently realized I could use one of the PWM outputs to drive the factory gauge. I wouldn't mind an extra input here so I could have stuff like a datalog switch or other configurable features, though I really wish you could do that through TunerStudio and "digital" buttons. It never made sense to me that TS couldn't do something like turning traction control on and off if it's already connected to the MS vs having to have a dedicated physical input for it. Most of what I'd be interested in at this point is probably analog input for sensors so I could get oil temp and stuff like that back available to view. I'm also just an engineer by trade, so I like having the numbers available, even if I don't do anything with them.

I've gotten good enough with the CAN stuff that I can kind of get around some of the I/O limitations if I wanted to though, at least I think. There's still a limit to how many CAN channels you can actually run, and it takes more hardware to do it, though the hardware is cheap enough. I haven't played with doing the analog data over CAN yet, but in principle it's not really that different, you just have to do the ADC conversion. My current problem is more finding a better way to split up the 5V reference power. I have it running to enough different sensors than the splicing is getting annoying. I need to just buy a Deutsch bussed connector and terminate them all there. Then if I want to add another sensor it's as easy as pulling a plug from the connector and adding a new wire.

Though I am kind of tempted to see what I might be able to sell my system for though. If I got a good enough price for my MS3X box and a pair of QuadSparks it could offset the cost of the new system decently. The harness gets a little trickier though because of where everything terminates on my setup today. Depending on where I'd want to mount the ECU I'd likely still have to extend most of my wires, which I would rather not do, so the flying lead harness probably makes more sense. Then I'd only need to buy new terminals for all of my connectors if I don't still have extras from the first time around.

 

[DionR]

Be gone temptress!

 

[racerjoe]

Be gone temptress!

Lol, I had not actually seen the +HC version before, but I haven't really cruised their options in general for a while either. I have considered upgrading several times as I wouldn't mind moving the whole system under the hood to free up my firewall a little more. Having two 20+ pin bulkheads through the firewall makes things a little busy at the back of my engine, plus the two QuadSparks sitting on my fender right now, especially now that I got my A/C installed and have even more hosing going on in that corner of the engine bay.

The I/O thing is borderline for me. I've used up most of what is available on my MS3X at this point, though some of it is more of a "just because I can" thing, not so much a "need to have". For instance, I used to run dual temp senders and had one for the gauge and one for the MS until I recently realized I could use one of the PWM outputs to drive the factory gauge. I wouldn't mind an extra input here so I could have stuff like a datalog switch or other configurable features, though I really wish you could do that through TunerStudio and "digital" buttons. It never made sense to me that TS couldn't do something like turning traction control on and off if it's already connected to the MS vs having to have a dedicated physical input for it. Most of what I'd be interested in at this point is probably analog input for sensors so I could get oil temp and stuff like that back available to view.also just an en I'm gineer by trade, so I like having the numbers available, even if I don't do anything with them.

I've gotten good enough with the CAN stuff that I can kind of get around some of the I/O limitations if I wanted to though, at least I think. There's still a limit to how many CAN channels you can actually run, and it takes more hardware to do it, though the hardware is cheap enough. I haven't played with doing the analog data over CAN yet, but in principle it's not really that different, you just have to do the ADC conversion. My current problem is more finding a better way to split up the 5V reference power. I have it running to enough different sensors than the splicing is getting annoying. I need to just buy a Deutsch bussed connector and terminate them all there. Then if I want to add another sensor it's as easy as pulling a plug from the connector and adding a new wire.

Though I am kind of tempted to see what I might be able to sell my system for though. If I got a good enough price for my MS3X box and a pair of QuadSparks it could offset the cost of the new system decently. The harness gets a little trickier though because of where everything terminates on my setup today. Depending on where I'd want to mount the ECU I'd likely still have to extend most of my wires, which I would rather not do, so the flying lead harness probably makes more sense. Then I'd only need to buy new terminals for all of my connectors if I don't still have extras from the first time around.

Guilty of being an engineer and wanting to see stuff even if I don't use it. I found a 3 axis G-meter online for like $10. It's just a board but I also found a small plastic box to pot it in after making the wire connections. Unfortunately, I don't have 3 extra analog ins to use it. I'd also like to see oil temperature.
My MS3 is in my glovebox and all the wires for the engine go out through a 48 pin Deusch plug behind the intake. I put my quad sparks under the dash. Honestly, the swap to the new ecu would be simple. I'd make up the wires for the engine with pins, then just take the connector off to a more ergonomic spot to repin. Almost like I did with the hemi swap. Only I bough a new plug to go on the new harness. All I did was plug it in and hit the key.

 

[Map63Vette]

Guilty of being an engineer and wanting to see stuff even if I don't use it. I found a 3 axis G-meter online for like $10. It's just a board but I also found a small plastic box to pot it in after making the wire connections. Unfortunately, I don't have 3 extra analog ins to use it. I'd also like to see oil temperature.
My MS3 is in my glovebox and all the wires for the engine go out through a 48 pin Deusch plug behind the intake. I put my quad sparks under the dash. Honestly, the swap to the new ecu would be simple. I'd make up the wires for the engine with pins, then just take the connector off to a more ergonomic spot to repin. Almost like I did with the hemi swap. Only I bough a new plug to go on the new harness. All I did was plug it in and hit the key.

Funny story, I just 3D printed a little housing for an accelerometer/gyroscope this week that I was planning to install soon to play with. I'm feeding it into my Raspberry Pi though and will transmit the values to the MS via CAN. I'm essentially just emulating a JBPerf GPS/Accel board with my Pi at this point as I'm already passing my GPS data over. I need to do a little more investigation on the accelerometer CAN signals, but shouldn't be too hard.

I've been on a magnet mounting kick lately, so that's how I was planning to try it out. I mounted my A/C ducts with some magnets and just reworked my column display to use magnets to hold it to the dash just under the instrument cluster since it kept rotating on my column and driving me crazy. From what I can find the accelerometer board I have shouldn't care about magnets being around it, though time will tell what numbers I actually get out of it.

 

[Map63Vette]

Here's the little module I put together the other day. Planning to stick it to the bottom of the dash in the middle as I think that might actually be moderately close to the CG. Hoping to get it working this weekend maybe, but it's supposed to be 90+ for the next week and the Dart got banished back to the driveway since the Viper finally came home, so it's less pleasant to work on than when it was in the garage in the A/C. I may just pull it in for an afternoon to mess with though, or possibly remote into it from my desktop.

 

[bjkadron]

@Map63Vette Have you seen the AMP EFI Pro Evo + HC? It's their small packaged ECU with high current spark outputs so you don't have to use the quad spark module for "dumb" coils. It also has increased I/O over the old MS3X boxes. Very tempting to upgrade so I can add even more crap to it. You would have to use the Holley Dominator to be anywhere close to the amount of I/O, which would be well over $5K. It's only $1600 with a harness.
» MS3Pro EVO+ HC ECU

That's nice! Might be an option if I decide against the 8HP.

 

[Dantra]

I am in the process of swapping Doctor Diff 11.75 front disc on my car. Very high quality kit. I had an issue where bearings would not slide onto spindles easily tolerances were too tight. Had to use 80 grit sand paper on spindle and bearing inner race to open up tolerances a tad. Usual car project type bull ****. But got past that issue. Luckily I test fitted and found that problem before i packed bearings with grease ect ect ect....

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What did you torque the upper ball joint to?

 

[340sFastback]

What did you torque the upper ball joint to?

I just snugged it up then tightened a tad more till the cotter pin hole lined up.

 

[Dantra]

I just snugged it up then tightened a tad more till the cotter pin hole lined up.

While tightening mine down, the left side actually went past the point of lining up the hole. I saw that it came with new nuts. I put the new flange style nut on and torqued to 55-60 and then dbl nutted, using the stock slotted nut. We'll see what the right side does today...

I too had to emery cloth the spindles. Thanks for the tip. Would've sucked to find out after packing bearings and setting seals

 

[340sFastback]

While tightening mine down, the left side actually went past the point of lining up the hole. I saw that it came with new nuts. I put the new flange style nut on and torqued to 55-60 and then dbl nutted, using the stock slotted nut. We'll see what the right side does today...

I too had to emery cloth the spindles. Thanks for the tip. Would've sucked to find out after packing bearings and setting seals

I swapped on QA1 upper control arms which had regular mopar big ball joints and cotter pin hole lined right up with castle nut.

Yeah bearings not fitting on spindle I think it was god telling me I need to test fit it all up before packing bearings with grease.

 

[Dantra]

I swapped on QA1 upper control arms which had regular mopar big ball joints and cotter pin hole lined right up with castle nut.

Yeah bearings not fitting on spindle I think it was god telling me I need to test fit it all up before packing bearings with grease.

Check your hubs for casting slag... I noticed some fall loose on the right side. Which means I'm pulling the left back apart.

 

[340sFastback]

Check your hubs for casting slag... I noticed some fall loose on the right side. Which means I'm pulling the left back apart.

View attachment 1716421462

Mine be all together and I be out driving around. I did wipe the insides out with clean paper towel and solvents. But if I saw your post ahead of time I would have squirted Brake Clean in there.

 

[Dantra]

Mine be all together and I be out driving around. I did wipe the insides out with clean paper towel and solvents. But if I saw your post ahead of time I would have squirted Brake Clean in there.

The largest piece of slag, in the picture, fell out as soon as sat it down.. The rest from running a screwdriver around. I ended up putting a barrel sander on my die grinder and cleaning it out.

 

[Dantra]

Did stuff..

11.75 Dr Diff brakes installed, 15x7s painted and Hotchkis sway bar brackets welded on. My 15 psi residual valve was supposed to be yesterday.. Wasn't. Itll be here today. So I once I have it, I can get the system bled. The spindles changed my tie, drastically. Almost to the finish line..

 

[DionR]

What did you torque the upper ball joint to?

My '74 FSM says 100 ft/#'s.

I assumed that if the slot doesn't line up, torque would need to be increased until the slot matches. On my DS I had to go pretty tight, so on the PS I reduced the torque on the torque wrench and went until it clicked and then tightened it past that until I could get the cotter pin in.

 

[DionR]

While tightening mine down, the left side actually went past the point of lining up the hole. I saw that it came with new nuts. I put the new flange style nut on and torqued to 55-60 and then dbl nutted, using the stock slotted nut. We'll see what the right side does today...

I've seen pictures of parts where it looks like they include a washer to go under the nut. I wonder if that would have made the difference?

 

[Map63Vette]

I'll be curious to see what you think of the brakes. I have a set of E body front discs on my car that were already installed when I bought it and typical drums on the back. I don't seem to have any issues locking the tires with the setup, though I do have some weird pedal stuff going on I'm still trying to figure out. Doesn't look like either of the smaller Dr. Diff kits would make too much difference over what I've got in that regard, but it is tempting to go with fresh parts all around to see if that fixes the pedal feel. I think it's only been an issue since I did my master cylinder swap though. I used one out of a gen 1 Viper because it had the ports facing the direction I needed and was an acceptable bore, but maybe it's got something different going on internally I'm not aware of.

 

[racerjoe]

Did stuff..

11.75 Dr Diff brakes installed, 15x7s painted and Hotchkis sway bar brackets welded on. My 15 psi residual valve was supposed to be yesterday.. Wasn't. Itll be here today. So I once I have it, I can get the system bled. The spindles changed my tie, drastically. Almost to the finish line..

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This is turning out to be a perfect example of a great cruiser. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing with the new engine, but I'm sure it will cruise just as good as a stock 6.4 once you get the tune straight.

 

[85glht]

Did stuff..

11.75 Dr Diff brakes installed, 15x7s painted and Hotchkis sway bar brackets welded on. My 15 psi residual valve was supposed to be yesterday.. Wasn't. Itll be here today. So I once I have it, I can get the system bled. The spindles changed my tie, drastically. Almost to the finish line..

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I was waiting for the dog to show up!!

 

[Dantra]

I was waiting for the dog to show up!!

Just for you buddy

 

[340sFastback]

I think dog likes that disc brake upgrade patiently waiting to go for a ride

 

[85glht]

Just for you buddy

 

[Dantra]

I now have 2 tuners working on this.. not to mention a few guys that just know their ****. The owner of DBR Performance (amazing shop) has stepped in to help. I met the owner on Power Tour.. He was at the HP Tuners booth, helping them out. Getting another tuner involved without telling the other, makes you feel like you are cheating on your wife, haha.

I received 4 or 5 tunes from FRP this week and DBR sent their 1st yesterday. The Dart is still on the stands but I'm able to test and pull logs without driving. If it's doing it in neutral.. it's gonna do it in gear. The surge from idle to 1400 with light tip in is getting smoother and slower and will almost settle where I want.. it's like it skips everything between idle and 1400. So if I'm in a parking lot and need to tip in off idle to say 1200rpm, just to crawl through at say, 1200rpm, it's nearly impossible. Same with slow moving traffic or cruising through a neighborhood. Any light cruise in that range is just not right.

A buddy got my tires all mounted on the 15x7s yesterday and I should get them on the car this afternoon.. short work day, so I get a little extra tinker time this afternoon. I'll have to set the toe before I can take for a spin. It's toed out by a mile with the new spindles. I'm ready for a ride tho.. been a few weeks. Should feel like a new car with the brake upgrade.

 

[340sFastback]

Yeah my toe was way off too after I swapped on the 11 3/4 front brakes

 

[racerjoe]

I now have 2 tuners working on this.. not to mention a few guys that just know their ****. The owner of DBR Performance (amazing shop) has stepped in to help. I met the owner on Power Tour.. He was at the HP Tuners booth, helping them out. Getting another tuner involved without telling the other, makes you feel like you are cheating on your wife, haha.

I received 4 or 5 tunes from FRP this week and DBR sent their 1st yesterday. The Dart is still on the stands but I'm able to test and pull logs without driving. If it's doing it in neutral.. it's gonna do it in gear. The surge from idle to 1400 with light tip in is getting smoother and slower and will almost settle where I want.. it's like it skips everything between idle and 1400. So if I'm in a parking lot and need to tip in off idle to say 1200rpm, just to crawl through at say, 1200rpm, it's nearly impossible. Same with slow moving traffic or cruising through a neighborhood. Any light cruise in that range is just not right.

A buddy got my tires all mounted on the 15x7s yesterday and I should get them on the car this afternoon.. short work day, so I get a little extra tinker time this afternoon. I'll have to set the toe before I can take for a spin. It's toed out by a mile with the new spindles. I'm ready for a ride tho.. been a few weeks. Should feel like a new car with the brake upgrade.

Might want to check your caster and camber while you are at it.