Cam questions

[JSabah]

So, I purchased a rebuilt long block 383-HP. Now that I have it I am questioning the builders choice in Camshafts. It seems that he installed an “RV” cam which is described as “Good to fair idle with good fuel economy”. In the catalog it also says for compression of 9.5:1 and less. It is an Elgin E-327-S (see below) and IF they are listed in any order is the one just before the “Street Performance “ cams.

I question his choice because I read that the replacement of the original cam is actually E-1094-P which is describes as “Fair idle with Lope” also good fuel economy and for stick and slightly modified engines. Compression is to be 10.3:1 or less.

The engine is bored .03 over with new pistons and rebuild original heads (906’s) and double chain. I plan on using either a stock intake manifold or a Lighter weight Edelbrock alloy one (another choice I could use advice on) with the 4 BBLCarter AFB carb. If I don’t have the correct Cam, now would be the time to change it out as the engine is out of the car with nothing on it, and both cams take the same hydraulic lifters (which are also new), so I believe it would just be a matter of sliding one out and sliding another in and adjusting the springs (total cost maybe $150-200 and I’ll have the unused cam to sell or keep)

Was there any “lope” at idle on the original 383-HP’s. Looking for advice as this is all new to me and I know just enough to be dangerous .... and now that I’m on COVID19 Stay Home, Stay Safe lockdown, I’m just waiting on responses

This is the info I found in the Cam catalog as well as something I found on this site.

 

[PRH]

Depending on whose catalog your read, the “327” is either the 2bbl cam, or the 4bbl cam for the non-RR/Super Bee motors(w/o A/C).
I’ve seen some slight variations of it too(and it appears the Elgin version is one of them), but basically it’s a .434/.431, 206/209@.050, 113lsa stock replacement cam.

It will run fine obviously, but depending on the rest of the combination, you can probably do better.
Other than going for a “correct” type restoration or a 100% stock rebuild where that’s the proper cam........ I can’t imagine myself ever using one.

 

[rumblefish360]

Your 383 is a B series big block. They didn’t really have a lope at all when new. (Wide centerline) What is the goal of the build. From where I sit, your doing a stock rebuild type of build. I would run with the first cam. It has a broader power band. Doing better on a cam is a never ending search, LOL! In the end, it’s the goal you have to achieve.
The chart is a little hard to read.

Ether intake will get the job done. The Performer offers lighter weight. That’s about it.

 

[JSabah]

Thank you. My goals are to have a “spirited” car that is quick off the line and cruises nicely. The car is considered a luxury sports car/grand tourer. It didn’t originally come with A/C but I do have a goal of adding it.

I’m not being evasive as to what car it is, it is just that it is (please don’t freak) an English car that originally came with a Chrysler 383 (equal to a Golden Commando 335 horses) of which only 500 were made and of those only 7 were LHD. I was fortunate enough to find one of the only 2 Mk3 LHD’s that I’m restoring. Here is a link to more info.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/06/13/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1965-jensen-c-v8/

or

Jensen C-V8 - Wikipedia

Does this change anything?

 

[JSabah]

I’ll try an post a cleaner/clearer picture of the Elgin catalog page

 

[PRH]

As seen here, the E-327-S is the replacement for the OE cam #2532190.

 

[rumblefish360]

So what is the target goal of this build?

 

[Wyrmrider]

pretty easy to spot the stock 340 cam
BBM look like MOPAR adv duration numbers roughly .008
that e-1094 is the magnum cam --at .004 it is over 290 on the intake and 300 on the exhaust
a lot of duration for the lif
the 327 looks like the non hp 4 bbl cam 73 vintage

all way obsolete

 

[JSabah]

I just don’t want a sluggish car. It was originally one of the fastest prod cars of its time (1965). Not going to race it or anything but I like a spirited care off the line and smooth cruising. Watch the Jay Leno YouTube and you’ll get the idea (and learn something about a fairly unique car)

 

[gzig5]

I love the Jenson. The Top Gear episode on them years ago was pretty good.

 

[JSabah]

Can anybody tell what level cam is in this from the sound?

 

[Krooser]

The stock 383 was a great performer in much larger cars than your Jensen. I've driven a Jensen years ago and a stock type cam will give you both Performance and reliability.

 

[aaronk785]

If you run a stock intake run the later 383 RR/superbee intake. Its better than the 65 intake. I think 68 to 71.

 

[JSabah]

Was planning on using an Edelbrock Performer (not the RPM due to clearance issues ) intake manifold and the Carter AFB carb.

 

[Wyrmrider]

the 60 66 ish 330 hp was the then hot version 67 got the hotter of the two cams listed above the jensen is heavy I would not use the magnum cam
if you have a 65 i doubt that it is a335 hp version so what year is It
later that 330 sized cam was the standard 4 bbl cam with minor differences
since the original pistons are no longer available what was used?
do you have a compression test?
if 906 were the oem heads why show the early data? how were they rebuilt? new ex seats? what valve springs?
stock is gone
let"s figure out what you have
I suspect it s not to 383 road runner 335 hp specs

 

[JSabah]

I don’t think I was clear.... sorry. I’ll start from the beginning.

the later years (which I have) of the Jensen CV8 used the 383 police spec version, which I believe was as you say 330bhp. As for car weight, it is a lightweight having been built with a tubular frame and fiberglass body (doors are aluminum).

But at this point it is only a reference as to where I want to go (at a minimum without getting into race stuff). A previous owner had replaced the original engine with a 440 but there are clearance issues if/when you use the stock air cleaner- which I want to do.

So, I found a rebuilt long block (hasn’t been finished or run so no compression tests) that was a 1969 383 HP. This is the specs of the build.

1. THIS BLOCK HAS BEEN OVEN CLEANED(HAS NO RUST OR SCALE), SHOT PEENED, MAGNAFLUXED AND PRESSURE TESTED. THIS BLOCK HAS HAD NO DAMAGE OR CRACK REPAIR. BLOCK CASTING NUMBER IS 2468130-7 DATE CODE IS 1-17-69

2. THE BLOCK IS FRESH TORQUE PLATE BORED AND MOLY HONED AND IS .030 ON THE BORE!!!. CYLINDERS ARE EXCELLENT, NO PITTING DAMAGE OR WEAR WHAT SO EVER. IT ALSO HAS BEEN LINE HONED AND SQUARE DECKED , NEW CAM BEARINGS INSTALLED, ALONG WITH NEW BRASS FREEZE PLUGS. ALL BOLT HOLES ARE FINE.

3. THE SHORT BLOCK HAS A BRAND NEW SET OF TRW FORGED PISTONS PART # L2315NF-030 WITH A NEW SET OF SPEED PRO RINGS, THESE PISTONS YIELD THE STOCK 10.00:1 COMPRESSION RATIO.

4. THE CRANKSHAFT IS A FORGED STEEL STANDARD ON THE ROD AND MAIN JOURNALS WITH A FRESH POLISH YES STILL STANDARD, IT ALSO HAS NEW CLEVITE MAIN AND ROD BEARINGS, RODS WERE CLEANED, SHOT PEENED, MAGNAFLUXED, RECONDITIONED, AND BALANCED. ALSO A NEW SET OF ROD BOLTS AND LOCKING NUTS WERE INSTALLED.

5. CAMSHAFT IS A BRAND NEW ELGIN PART NUMBER E-327-S 335HP HYDRAULIC LIFTER GRIND. NEW ELGIN LIFTERS, NEW CHROMOLY PUSH RODS WITH NEW ROCKER SHAFTS AND A NEW CLOYES DOUBLE ROLLER TIMING SET FINISH OFF THE SHORT BLOCK ASSEMBLY.

6. THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY WAS BALANCED AND BLUE PRINTED. THE HEADS ARE THE ORIGINAL 2843906 LARGE PORTED CLOSED CHAMBER CASTINGS. THEY ARE FULLY REBUILT WITH NEW ELGIN DUAL VALVE SPRINGS, EXTRA LARGE MANLEY STAINLESS STEEL VALVES, NEW VALVE GUIDES WITH PC SEALS, HARDENED EXHAUST VALVE SEATS, 5 ANGLE VALVE JOB AND FRESHLY CBN SURFACED.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A CORRECT 1969 383 HP2 ENGINE FOR YOUR ORGINAL 4 SPEED OR AUTOMATIC CAR OR YOU ARE MAKING A CLONE LOOK NO FURTHER!! I I AM GOING TO SELL IT HERE ON EBAY TO THE HIGHEST ACCEPTABLE BIDDER. THIS IS A VERY NICE TIGHTLY DATE CODED LONG BLOCK. THIS ENGINE WOULD MAKE A GREAT COMPLIMENT TO ANY 1969 CORONET SUPERBEE GTX SATELITE MOPAR PLYMOUTH MAGNUM 426 383 A833 DANA ROADRUNNER N96 AIR GRABBER RAMAIRCHARGER. I WILL ALSO BE LISTING A COMPLETELY REBUILD 1970 440 6 PACK HP ENGINE SOON JUST LIKE THIS ONE FROM INTAKE TO OIL PAN. WE ARE A FULL SERVICE MACHINE SHOP.

 

[PRH]

Neither of the stock cams have any kind of “lope” to them imo.

If you want to swap something in, that won’t require a bunch of other items be updated to facilitate its use......use a Comp 21-215-4.
It has just a hint of lope.
You’d want to be sure you had new springs that were at least the OE HP equivalents.

A PAC-1900, installed at 1.840-1.860 is a good choice here.

 

[Wyrmrider]

that piston will not give a true 10:1 with 96 heads and a felpro gasket
those are a good piston for your build?
The cam, heads, intake, carb, exhaust, windage tray make up the 383 Roadrunner engine
IF you have a 66 it was a different spec, intake manifoild, carb, exhaust, 562 closed chamber heads etc.
is the motor together yet?
can you measure depth from top of piston to the deck?
where did the heads come from stock rockers?
were they milled to get 10:1
or do you have 9:1
makes a difference for your cam choice
now the "327" cam you have is the stock non hp 383-440 cam
he other one is the road runner/ magnum 335 hp cam
what gear in the back?
do you have the carb number?
can you post a pic of your exhaust?

 

[Wyrmrider]

I know there are more question but you have a really nice car there
68 383 4bbl motors are basically the same except for cam
the intake manifolds are the same
They came with an AVS carb but the 66 had an AFB
to get a real 10:1 the pistons were run .002 out of the block
and the stock head gasket was .020 and the chamber was under 80 cc instead of the stock 88 or so
the exhausts varied by chassis but as far as I remember (good luck with that) the stock exhaust was not as good as the 69-70 or laterHP types But I have no idea what Jensen used
I'm in LA if you need to talk PM me

 

[PRH]

Here’s my take on it......

It’s basically a stock rebuild on a 383...... like what has been done countless thousands of times through the years, going in a basically stock vehicle.

This doesn’t require the wheel being reinvented to come up with a suitable cam that’s a slight bump up from what it came with from the factory.

One thing I noticed in the text from the Ebag listing I didn’t like was the mention of oversized valves.
If the heads have had 2.14/1.81 valves installed...... and have not had any blending done in the bowls....... it’s very possible they would offer less performance than if they had reused the OE sized valves.
It just depends on exactly how that operation was performed and finished, as to whether the big valves ended up being a step in the right direction or not.

 

[aaronk785]

Use the cam that's in it or use a newer tech cam. A lunati voodoo or similar type cam has shorter seat timing so it can build more cylinder pressure even though the cam is actually bigger.

 

[Wyrmrider]

what prh said
and for u the 327 cam is better than the other one which takes a converter change
yes in a perfect world u can do better
I'd run it and see at what rpm you need more
post up a compression test if you still want to change
going to narrower lobe centers like the 268 comp prh mentioned increases your dynamic compression and can lead to even more pinging which is common in open chamber bbm
the fix is more than a simple cam change

 

[PRH]

The E-327-S installed at the recommended 110c/l, and the Comp 268H installed at the recommended 106c/l both close the intake valve at 60* ABDC.

Cranking pressure should remain unchanged.

 

[aaronk785]

If they used a composition gasket and didn't plane the head he's lucky if he has 8.75 comp.

 

[PRH]

I think it’s kind of humorous really......

Think of the endless number of people who were installing aftermarket camshafts in their not-very-old-at-the-time muscle car motors back in the 60’s and 70’s.
However good or bad they were as they came from the factory...... they were what they were.

I think it’s fair to say “most” got slid in and the timing set dot-to-dot.
I know that’s all I did on my first one. I never cc’d anything either.

With all the talk nowadays...... it sounds like it’s a miracle any of them ran at all.

A 383 +.030, uncut block, 2315 pistons, 906 heads with aftermarket oversized valves and only a skim cut, Fel-Pro composition gaskets...... would be just under 9:1.
Which is plenty for a 268 cam.

In the mid-80’s I re-ringed a few 400’s for friends.
I used cams that were “too big”(MP484)...... yet those things always ran real good.
I’m sure they were all under 8:1cr.
One of them went into a 71 Charger R/T......ran mid-13’s at 3950lbs.