Cam swap and ported heads??

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viperredduster

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Ok guys how well will my current set up react to a full port job on the heads and a cam to match the flow ratings. I know I need more cam than I have now. How much would this help my 1/4 mile times. Prob somewhere around 11.50s with a solid head job?? The heads have 0 work done to them now so we are starting from scratch in that aspect.

Thanks in advance,
Drew
 
what cam are you looking at...and you dont say what you have as a converter
 
The converter is about a 3400 stall. It has ran a 12.010 at 112 like it is on the footbrake.
 
I think while you're at it you may want to lower the chamber size to get some compression into it and switching to an M1 might make a little more steam too. Also, the convertor will more than likely not be right once you change those two parts so I'd assume after it's been run with the new combo you'll be having the convertor tweaked or replaced. You've got a great combo now but by changing those two major parts you're basically going to need to change a bit more to make it all work together as well.

As far as the cam... You need to say what the heads are getting. CNC? Hand porting? Who's doing it and flow testing them? Do you want to stay with a hydraulic, a solid flat tappet, or change to a hydraulic roller?
 
Yeah I knew the converter would prob not be right but I will try it when I do it an see. I really want to take the heads as far as they can go. I would like CNC and have thought about shady Dell doing the work. And I would want a cam ground to match the flow ratings. I would like to do a solid cam but isn't there issues with the oiling system? How far can I go with a hydraulic roller.
 
CNC......check out Jeff @ Modern Cylinder Heads....
 
I have the same heads on a 344 11.1 557soild cam 750 bg speed demon holley strip and 4.30 gear at 3300 lbs been 11.80/ 10.99 100 shot. having my heads ported and bigger intake valves, nice porting going on he has removed the pushrod pinch. am going to soild roller .650 lift and custom covertor and .027 gasket to get comp up to11.6 hope to trun low 11's or high 10's without juice.
 
viperredduster said:
Ok guys how well will my current set up react to a full port job on the heads and a cam to match the flow ratings. I know I need more cam than I have now. How much would this help my 1/4 mile times. Prob somewhere around 11.50s with a solid head job?? The heads have 0 work done to them now so we are starting from scratch in that aspect.

Thanks in advance,
Drew
Click to expand...

A well ported head will add about 30-35HP alone. Intake work should add about 15HP give or take 5.
If you install larger intake valves with the porting you'll gain more.
Cam change can enhance that another 5-20HP.
Brian
 
bones427 said:
I have the same heads on a 344 11.1 557soild cam 750 bg speed demon holley strip and 4.30 gear at 3300 lbs been 11.80/ 10.99 100 shot. having my heads ported and bigger intake valves, nice porting going on he has removed the pushrod pinch. am going to soild roller .650 lift and custom covertor and .027 gasket to get comp up to11.6 hope to trun low 11's or high 10's without juice.
Click to expand...

What are done to your heads right now? Are they out of the box? And is there anything special needed to run a solid roller can in aspect to the oiling system if you only turn it about 6500?
 
ou812 said:
A well ported head will add about 30-35HP alone. Intake work should add about 15HP give or take 5.
If you install larger intake valves with the porting you'll gain more.
Cam change can enhance that another 5-20HP.
Brian
Click to expand...

So can you get the eddelbrocks to flow enought to get low tens with the right cam? I want to do a solid roller if it want interfere with the oiling issues. Does a good hydraulic roller make an equally impressive amount of power.
 
ou812 said:
A well ported head will add about 30-35HP alone. Intake work should add about 15HP give or take 5.
If you install larger intake valves with the porting you'll gain more.
Cam change can enhance that another 5-20HP.
Brian
Click to expand...
IMHO,you need to figure who you are going to,Brian is the man on the west coast and Ryan on the east.They can help you with the cam & lifter choice to attain or inform you about your HP goals.:pirat:
 
It will take much more gear and suspension to run low 10s with RPMs even max ported. Your car's heavy as a street car too. I have a buddy with Shady Dell stage 3 RPMS. Engine makes just shy of 600hp, but in a street driven, pump gas combo, it runs low 11s. Depending on how bad the RPMs were out of the box you may pick up a bit more than 35hp. Thier valve jobs frankly suck. I'd second Jeff at Modern if you want CNC with realistic numbers. He can also spec the cam. Brian gets some great results hand porting tho and might be closer/cheaper.
 
viperredduster said:
What are done to your heads right now? Are they out of the box? And is there anything special needed to run a solid roller can in aspect to the oiling system if you only turn it about 6500?
Click to expand...
heads where ported by hensley 15 yrs ago mild port job. going off of brians (ou812)advise on what we are doing now. rollers lifters you need that don't uncover the oiling ports in the lifter bores, seems everyone is making lifters that work for that now. Ryan shady dell uses Herbert's and Brian has his own made from Comp, Hughes has some also so do others.
 
moper said:
It will take much more gear and suspension to run low 10s with RPMs even max ported. Your car's heavy as a street car too. I have a buddy with Shady Dell stage 3 RPMS. Engine makes just shy of 600hp, but in a street driven, pump gas combo, it runs low 11s. Depending on how bad the RPMs were out of the box you may pick up a bit more than 35hp. Thier valve jobs frankly suck. I'd second Jeff at Modern if you want CNC with realistic numbers. He can also spec the cam. Brian gets some great results hand porting tho and might be closer/cheaper.
Click to expand...

So picking up almost 200hp I couldnt get run a low 10? I saw a car with the same suspension as me run 10.20s so I think that will be fine since its not a drag only car and doesnt have to be dead consistent, plus I want to do it on drag radials. This is a street car. I am just worried about the power I can get from the ported eddlebrocks because if they wont get me there I might as well just force the air in via procharger. So naturally aspirated what are the limits of a RPM head with solid cam? About 600 with 400+ cubes?
 
Sorry for the edit:

What did that 10.20 car weigh? What was it powered by? What was the gearing?

"Almost 200" horsepower, with the car as it sits now, IMO, will not run low 10s. The car I mentioned previously, with another 175hp NOS plate, runs 10.50s. All day, in Las Vegas heat. To go faster, he ended up buying a B wedge powered race car that runs high 9s. It was cheaper than doing what his car would need to run much faster. There are significant differences in "street" and "race" cars. Street cars have to make more power, over a broader curve, and push more weight to make the same numbers. What you have is a crate engine short with some abuse, and a set of factory replacement design heads. I think while you could get close to 600hp out of the heads, the rest of the engine will need to be brought up to race specs: forged crank, better pistons, a proper hone, then heads that can flow an honest 320-330cfm, the intake and headers to match, new convertor, and IMO it will need more gear if it's not lightened. Call me a pessemist but I don't see it happening without a lot more than a CNC port and camshaft. Not low 10s. Not with what you have. The RPMs are good for around 600hp in max ported form. Doesnt matter what cubic inch they're on. They can't move enough air at any rpm to make much more. If you plan to use forced induction, again, I think it's not where you want to start from. If you want 10.20s from that car, in basically that shape, I'd look to build a "blank sheet" 4" arm engine, Indy 360-1s, up the gears to 4.56s, and build for that ET.
 
moper said:
Sorry for the edit:

What did that 10.20 car weigh? What was it powered by? What was the gearing?

"Almost 200" horsepower, with the car as it sits now, IMO, will not run low 10s. The car I mentioned previously, with another 175hp NOS plate, runs 10.50s. All day, in Las Vegas heat. To go faster, he ended up buying a B wedge powered race car that runs high 9s. It was cheaper than doing what his car would need to run much faster. There are significant differences in "street" and "race" cars. Street cars have to make more power, over a broader curve, and push more weight to make the same numbers. What you have is a crate engine short with some abuse, and a set of factory replacement design heads. I think while you could get close to 600hp out of the heads, the rest of the engine will need to be brought up to race specs: forged crank, better pistons, a proper hone, then heads that can flow an honest 320-330cfm, the intake and headers to match, new convertor, and IMO it will need more gear if it's not lightened. Call me a pessemist but I don't see it happening without a lot more than a CNC port and camshaft. Not low 10s. Not with what you have. The RPMs are good for around 600hp in max ported form. Doesnt matter what cubic inch they're on. They can't move enough air at any rpm to make much more. If you plan to use forced induction, again, I think it's not where you want to start from. If you want 10.20s from that car, in basically that shape, I'd look to build a "blank sheet" 4" arm engine, Indy 360-1s, up the gears to 4.56s, and build for that ET.
Click to expand...

The car that ran 10.20s on a 275 drag radial was a 67 coronet all steel. I think it weighed like 3850 with him in it. 500 inch bb mopar with 4.10 gears on pump gas and foot brake. I know it has more torque, but I have substantially less weight. I think the most cost efficient way would put ported eddys and about a 100 shot or a procharger. I think either way it would cost about the same. I really am just bench racing and prob wont spend any serious money or time on it until I graduate college. Just leaving my options open you know:salut:
 
Actually 67 Bs are not all that heavy. Less with aluminum top ends and headers....lol. regardless a 500" B wedge can make a hell of a lot more steam than a 360. I think it's gonna take more than what you think. But again, this is bench racing... My best piece of advice is keep in mind the whole package, because serious ETs are only the result of a solid package. Not a strong engine.
 
moper said:
Actually 67 Bs are not all that heavy. Less with aluminum top ends and headers....lol. regardless a 500" B wedge can make a hell of a lot more steam than a 360. I think it's gonna take more than what you think. But again, this is bench racing... My best piece of advice is keep in mind the whole package, because serious ETs are only the result of a solid package. Not a strong engine.
Click to expand...

Yeah I am trying to talk him into building a for sure engine for his car so I can buy his measily 650hp indy 500 ha. I am pretty sure he has gotten it down to about 3400-3500 since fiberglass, but he put a cage in it so that added some back. Also he put a dana in it with a bigger radial. Now it runs 10.0s at 130 but he milled the heads so it runs half and half. I am thinking I might as well just port the eddys on this package and put a cam in it and see what it runs till I have the time to pull the engine and build it.
 
viperredduster said:
So can you get the eddelbrocks to flow enought to get low tens with the right cam? I want to do a solid roller if it want interfere with the oiling issues. Does a good hydraulic roller make an equally impressive amount of power.
Click to expand...

In drag racing, the launch is everything! My heavy duster will 60ft. with cars that run 9's...and it only runs 10.50's.
I have customers with 600+HP eddy headed 410's that only go 10.20's and 10 teens with 1.40 60ft. They should be 1.35 at least.
You can have alot of power and still not run the #. So you have to be realistic about your efforts. Some prefer to make HP to run a #, some prefer to work the chassis, and some will do both for a very fast car.
If you want consistent low 10's and have the $$$ I would start with Indy heads. Then the chassis doesn't have to be 100% to run the #.
I'm an Indy dealer too, so if you do need anything give me a call.

Brian
 
"Then the chassis doesn't have to be 100% to run the #."

What he said... Street cars have to perform while compromising for "street". So more power will be needed. A mentor of mine had a full steel '71 Mustang in Stock Eliminator that would run into the 10s with 485hp, steel cage, and a 9" slick and leaf springs with traction bars. He ran ballast to slow down to 11.teens. But, that had a race 4sp, race clutch, 5.86 pro gears. But, that's no street car.

I think the three biggest differences in "street" vs "race" are:
1. The cage. Mainly material and quality and the resulting added weight)
2. The suspension. Not because they aren't running full back halfs... More because the best factory design parts are almost never budgeted for or used: i.e. top quality adjustable shocks, low rate torsion bars and travel limiters, light weight/low drag brakes.
3. Gearing and convertor. Again, a combination of wanting to balance street drivability - meaning high (numerically low) rear end gearing; And too low/tight stalls with engines that are oriented more towards drag racing in regard to power curves.
 
ou812 said:
In drag racing, the launch is everything! My heavy duster will 60ft. with cars that run 9's...and it only runs 10.50's.
I have customers with 600+HP eddy headed 410's that only go 10.20's and 10 teens with 1.40 60ft. They should be 1.35 at least.
You can have alot of power and still not run the #. So you have to be realistic about your efforts. Some prefer to make HP to run a #, some prefer to work the chassis, and some will do both for a very fast car.
If you want consistent low 10's and have the $$$ I would start with Indy heads. Then the chassis doesn't have to be 100% to run the #.
I'm an Indy dealer too, so if you do need anything give me a call.

Brian
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand about the chassis thing because it trapped 112 like it is and I am pretty sure with a 100 percent chassis that would be more like a 11.80 and it only ran a 12.010 but that was on the foot brake leaving easyish. The 60' was a 1.65. But the car does not have a cage in it so that would help out a little bit.

So I either need a power adder or trade my eddys for some 360-1s :toothy10:. When I get to the point where I need some ''race'' heads I will give you a call.
 
moper said:
"Then the chassis doesn't have to be 100% to run the #."

What he said... Street cars have to perform while compromising for "street". So more power will be needed. A mentor of mine had a full steel '71 Mustang in Stock Eliminator that would run into the 10s with 485hp, steel cage, and a 9" slick and leaf springs with traction bars. He ran ballast to slow down to 11.teens. But, that had a race 4sp, race clutch, 5.86 pro gears. But, that's no street car.

I think the three biggest differences in "street" vs "race" are:
1. The cage. Mainly material and quality and the resulting added weight)
2. The suspension. Not because they aren't running full back halfs... More because the best factory design parts are almost never budgeted for or used: i.e. top quality adjustable shocks, low rate torsion bars and travel limiters, light weight/low drag brakes.
3. Gearing and convertor. Again, a combination of wanting to balance street drivability - meaning high (numerically low) rear end gearing; And too low/tight stalls with engines that are oriented more towards drag racing in regard to power curves.
Click to expand...


I see what you are saying but when I say a street car I only mean that it has lights, drag radials, and a tag. Everything else is pretty much out the window. I mean right now the car has no power steering and a spool and a pro brake which makes backing up into parking spots fun while trying to hold the tb button. There are parts all over it that say "not for highway use". I dont plan on driving this thing on a highway trip either. It wont even go 65 with out over revving the motor for my taste.

Like I said before though I am not where I have the time to work on it until I get out of school since I dont have a shop in my college town or the car for that fact.

I guess I will have to decide if I want to do it n/a or not.
 
I would change the cam at least. we put one of Hughes cam in a 360 that had a older version of there's in it and went from running 12's to 11.20's it was a 360 with untouched eddys, 1.6 rockers 4.10 gears 74 aspen. cam we used was a soild part no.HTL5256AS
 
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