Can this be fixed at home?

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VonCramp

VonCramp

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After finally sorting out my axle problems with the new green bearings and the genius mechanic that put them on wrong, I found out **** can get worse. The other super-genius that did my third member didn't bother tightening the pinion or something to that effect. After hearing a whirring noise as I drove my car to the backyard from my driveway I became suspicious of the quality of work that had been done on the third member. I put the car on stands to start sorting things out. I started reinstalling the axles after getting that bearing/flange mess fixed. I started on my driver's side axle. As I spun the axle around to access the five flange studs, I noticed the rear was getting worse and worse feeling. Just as I did a final spin to check all of the studs the rear makes a clunk noise and just locks up. I look under the car at the yoke and it has moved out of the front of the third member about half an inch. Telling me that the pinion has now come loose and is locked against the ring gear. Thankfully I wasn't driving the car at the time. So, at least no permanent damage is done I think.
I know some of you are thinking man this guy must be a tight-*** and took his parts to shady mechanics. Not true at all. I used highly reputable shops that were known for quality work. Problem is they are not Mopar guys nor old car people. They are production people. I expect I will be dealing with the 4x4 shop that did my third member build in court due to his extremely busy schedule. At least the shop Gaas Automotive fixed their mistake for me for free and while I waited. (The shop that pressed the green bearings) If I've learned any lesson here is that don't take your parts or car somewhere that you haven't put time into research. Just because someone says they're great doesn't mean they really are.
I would like to know if possibly I can pull the pinion back into place myself and tighten the nut to proper torque specifications or am I completely hosed? Remember I wasn't driving the car when the pinion came loose. So, it should still be correct as far as tolerances and gear mesh goes (aside from the pinion having moved forward and locking against the ring gear). Thanks as always to the awesome members here for support and advice.
 
At this point, if I were you, I would call the guy who set the third member up and tell him what happened. If he's at all ethical, he'll fix it. Now, if you don't want to rely on him again, I completely understand, in which case I recommend you go ahead and disassemble the third member yourself. It's really not that hard and the plus side is you'll KNOW it's done right when you are finished.
 
Ya, Rusty is right on this one. I'd make sure that the shop that did the work is informed of what has happened. If there turns out to be any further damage found from their mistake you'll want them to have to reimburse you. Whether or not you want to tackle it yourself is up to you. Most likely the shop will want you to bring it back to them or else they'll wash their hands of any responsibility after someone else works on it. If you're able to do the work yourself it's usually the best option on these older cars.
 
RustyRatRod said:
At this point, if I were you, I would call the guy who set the third member up and tell him what happened. If he's at all ethical, he'll fix it. Now, if you don't want to rely on him again, I completely understand, in which case I recommend you go ahead and disassemble the third member yourself. It's really not that hard and the plus side is you'll KNOW it's done right when you are finished.
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Problem is I have to pull the entire damn rear end now. Because the axle is stuck and I can't rotate the damn thing around. What a mess.
 
Thru the yrs. , as much as I hate to admit it,, now and then we made mistakes..

If we did,, I wanted to know about it,, and I want the opportunity to make it right,, as soon as possible,, with as little inconvenience to you as poss..

I would work thru the night, myself,, to make sure it's right..

I think you should give them the same opportunity,, if they're willing to deal with it in a timely manner..

VonCramp said:
Problem is I have to pull the entire damn rear end now. Because the axle is stuck and I can't rotate the damn thing around. What a mess.
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Call them first,, I would just send my tow-truck..

hope it helps
 
VonCramp said:
Problem is I have to pull the entire damn rear end now. Because the axle is stuck and I can't rotate the damn thing around. What a mess.
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Man, you've not been having a good week. - First the axle bearings and now the pinion error. I'd still contact that shop and see what they're willing to do for you. Maybe they're capable of picking it up and towing it? As long as they're competent enough not to cause any damage and aren't going to leave you waiting I'd let them know that the situation you're in is due to their work. Crap happens so I'd stay respectful but they still need to make things right.
 
inertia said:
thru the yrs. , as much as i hate to admit it,, now and then we made mistakes..

If we did,, i wanted to know about it,, and i want the opportunity to make it right,, as soon as possible,, with as little inconvenience to you as poss..

I would work thru the night, myself,, to make sure it's right..

I think you should give them the same opportunity,, if they're willing to deal with it in a timely manner..



Call them first,, i would just send my tow-truck..

Hope it helps
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x2
 
Gears & differential assembly shouldn't matter if they're old car guys or not. The new cars are virtually the same as the old. Geerz iz geerz! Good luck. I hope it all works out in the end soon.
 
In answer to your original question, "can it be done",,

If you put the wheel back on,, and gently rock it back and forth,, while pulling on the pinion,, the pinion should come back into place so you can get the yoke back on.. if not,, you'll find a wrench, although inconvenient, will work to get the axle nuts off..

hope it helps
 
1967 'cuda said:
Man, you've not been having a good week. - First the axle bearings and now the pinion error. I'd still contact that shop and see what they're willing to do for you. Maybe they're capable of picking it up and towing it? As long as they're competent enough not to cause any damage and aren't going to leave you waiting I'd let them know that the situation you're in is due to their work. Crap happens so I'd stay respectful but they still need to make things right.
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I agree with all of your replies. There's one major problem with the tow truck option. I have only one axle in the rear that is now locked up. Not too mention this is a dirty and rough 4x4 shop. Not a clean resto-shop where they care about keeping your car safe and ding free. They have no clue about a one of 130 '69 'Cuda big block 4-speed car. I would be a nervous wreck worrying about this car. I will just bite the bullet and pull the rear out. Sucks but that's what hot rodding is about. Fixing, going fast, breaking, and fixing again!
 
I think you need to go thru the entire unit and check everything. It appears that two of the easiest things are goofed up. What else is. You may not even have the gear ratio you think you do. You were close to the total destruction of the poor thing. Could of ripped the drive shaft right out of it.
 
VonCramp said:
I agree with all of your replies. There's one major problem with the tow truck option. I have only one axle in the rear that is now locked up. Not too mention this is a dirty and rough 4x4 shop. Not a clean resto-shop where they care about keeping your car safe and ding free. They have no clue about a one of 130 '69 'Cuda big block 4-speed car. I would be a nervous wreck worrying about this car. I will just bite the bullet and pull the rear out. Sucks but that's what hot rodding is about. Fixing, going fast, breaking, and fixing again!
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Not a problem at all for a rollback.
 
inertia said:
In answer to your original question, "can it be done",,

If you put the wheel back on,, and gently rock it back and forth,, while pulling on the pinion,, the pinion should come back into place so you can get the yoke back on.. if not,, you'll find a wrench, although inconvenient, will work to get the axle nuts off..

hope it helps
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Yea, I realize I can get the axle flange nuts off with a wrench. What I am really concerned about is getting the axle unstuck out of the third member now. Hopefully it will pop out with a little effort.
Can I tighten the pinion nut up and fix my problem or does it need to be serviced by the shop again?! Thanks again for the advice!
 
If you decide to try and remove the whole rear end,, as opposed to undoing the axle with a wrench,,.. just try taking off one of the u-bolts before anything else,, then remind yourself there's 8 u-bolt nuts...
 
67Dart273 said:
How many threads are we gonna HAVE

I'm just trying to get good advice from people with more experience than me on problems I've had with this 8 3/4 rear. I know it's annoying to you. In fact, we've talked before and I let you get me ticked off. I really care about my car and I get stressed and worried when something goes wrong. I don't make a crapload of money and I worked hard to get this car. Plus, I really love to drive it. If my threads annoy you, I apologize. I got in this mess by not asking advice to begin with. Instead, I just listened to opinions. Do you have anything to offer other than a rude opinion? I'd hate to think you're one of them Mopar elitist I am always hearing about.
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I knew I could count on you to have a cool, logical, well thought out reply

NOT

Why can't you reply to the SAME THREAD YOU STARTED on this problem? This is called "continuity" and it allows guys who are attempting to find out what your problem is where you've been

Have a nice freekin life.
 
inertia said:
If you decide to try and remove the whole rear end,, as opposed to undoing the axle with a wrench,,.. just try taking off one of the u-bolts before anything else,, then remind yourself there's 8 u-bolt nuts...
Click to expand...

I think I explained things wrong. What I meant was that I think the axle is stuck now that the rear is locked up. First thing I did was remove the five axle flange bolts and try to pull out the axle. Maybe a little more exertion or an axle puller can get it done. You're right about the eight u-bolt nuts. That would suck.
 
67Dart273 said:
I knew I could count on you to have a cool, logical, well thought out reply

NOT

Why can't you reply to the SAME THREAD YOU STARTED on this problem? This is called "continuity" and it allows guys who are attempting to find out what your problem is where you've been

Have a nice freekin life.
Click to expand...

Your passive aggressive replies are the problem here. I would follow the same thread if I knew what the hell I was doing on this forum. I try to follow protocol and stay within the guidelines. Just don't reply to my annoying threads since they suck so bad. Thanks for nothing as usual.
 
Turn the brake drum around and put it on "bell" out,, put on a coupla wheel nuts about 6 turns,, then use the drum as a slide hammer,, and tug the axle out by pushing and pulling the drum..

Depending which diff you have,, it may or may not have a "collapsable/crush spacer" which may need replacing.. If you got a parts list from the diff bill,, that may show a "spacer/sleeve"..

To be sure we need the last 3 digits off the left front snout of you diff.. 741, 742, 489, eg..
 
inertia said:
Turn the brake drum around and put it on "bell" out,, put on a coupla wheel nuts about 6 turns,, then use the drum as a slide hammer,, and tug the axle out by pushing and pulling the drum..

Depending which diff you have,, it may or may not have a "collapsable/crush spacer" which may need replacing.. If you got a parts list from the diff bill,, that may show a "spacer/sleeve"..

To be sure we need the last 3 digits off the left front snout of you diff.. 741, 742, 489, eg..
Click to expand...

It is a 741 case with a clutch type sure grip recently installed by the shop where the fun all began. I think I recall crush sleeves as part of the kit from Randy's Ring and Pinion. Thanks for the awesome backing plate idea! I will give it a shot!
 
If it came undone,, it's possible the crush sleeve was never "crushed", so you may get away with just retightening to... 240 lbs/ft.. or until there's preload on the brgs of 20 -30 inch/lbs for new brgs or 0- 15 in/lbs on an old brg....

(I'm prob gonna hafta put on my fire suit again.. lol)

Were I you,, remove the "pig", don't be alarmed if the carrier is a bit chewed up by the pinion,, but it's important to clean any chunks/shavings outta the housing, change oil etc,,. and make sure the pinion gear doesn't have any seriously chipped/missing teeth,...

and I would urge you to take it back..

hope it helps..
 
inertia said:
If it came undone,, it's likely the crush sleeve was never "crushed", so you may get away with just retightening to... 240 lbs/ft.. or until there's preload on the brgs of 20 -30 inch/lbs for new brgs or 0- 15 in/lbs on an old brg....

(I'm prob gonna hafta put on my fire suit again.. lol)

Were I you,, remove the "pig", don't be alarmed if the carrier is a bit chewed up by the pinion,, but it's important to clean any chunks/shavings outta the housing, change oil etc,,. and make sure the pinion gear doesn't have any seriously chipped/missing teeth,...

and I would urge you to take it back..

hope it helps..
Click to expand...
I doubt there will be any damage. The pinion locked up while it was on jack stands. I drove the car to the backyard and that was it. I'll be taking it back to the shop Friday. Thanks again for your input! I really do appreciate it.
 
I just don't understand what's up with this seemingly increasing ability to NOT do your damn job and still have a job.
Some of the stuff I have seen shops get paid for would make me pick up a breaker bar and beat the crap out of the guy that did the work, and NEVER consider paying them for it.
More like sueing them for it.

And if the excuse is that they don't have specific experience with the type of job, then they shouldn't be taking the job.

For example;
The shop/tech that did this spring relocation for example, would have had to RUN when I went to pick up this car I guarantee it.
The cops would probably have to arrest me before that guy would be safe again.

Same with this supposed X pipe build that was also charged for.
 

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