Can't get engine to crank

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UnicronHound

No it's not uniCORN.
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I have a 1963 4dr Valiant, this was running a year ago, and since has started. I've replaced the cables, battery, starter, starter relay, alternator fuse linkage, and the ballast resistor. All the car does when I try the key is click multiple times, the engine doesn't turn over at all. There's no water in the oil, so I'm guessing the block isn't cracked either, anyone have any ideas as to what's wrong with it? I'm going to upload a video of the sound as soon as possible, just in case that helps.

Video is now up, sorry about the delay at second, key slipped out of grip.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwl0OEPVZGg"]Valiant engine, no crank - YouTube[/ame]
 
have you tried to spin the motor over with a wrench?? is the motor locked up??

turn the key on inside and then jump the two posts on the starter and see if it cranks...
 
805moparkid said:
have you tried to spin the motor over with a wrench?? is the motor locked up??

turn the key on inside and then jump the two posts on the starter and see if it cranks...
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No, I haven't tried that. If it cranks but won't start what would be the next step?
 
"New" parts does not mean "they are good", I.E. functional

Jumper the two exposed posts on the starter relay. It should crank. If not, jumper the two posts on the starter. Again it should crank

If the starter makes one "authoritative" clunk, (the sound of the solenoid pulling the gear in) you probably have something locked up. I agree, try to turn it with a socket.

You might pull the plugs and inspect with a small flashlight. Any sign of rust, water, etc?
 
replace the battery. I click something is stuck. Multiple light clicks is low voltage do to battery connections or battery .
 
And make sure the battery posts, battery ground, and battery wire terminals are clean and shiny at the contact areas. All too many times in the past, when my '68 GTX sat for too long, the battery posts and terminals corroded and the relay clicking resulted without starter engagement.
 
The battery is brand new, not even three months old yet, the cables/terminals are all brand spanking new. I also made sure to sand down where the ground goes. Also as a "just in case" I charged the battery for quite a while.
 
UnicronHound said:
The battery is brand new, not even three months old yet, the cables/terminals are all brand spanking new. I also made sure to sand down where the ground goes. Also as a "just in case" I charged the battery for quite a while.
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READ THIS AGAIN (Please)


NEW does not mean GOOD. You actually have to get your test light, your meter, and do some TESTING.

You can throw parts at it if you want. You evidently have a lot more money than I do. What'r ya gonna do when you've replaced everything you just replaced and it still does not work?
 
The battery is brand new, not even three months old yet
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Put the charger on the bad boy; remake all connections to battery, block, head to fire wall, and starter.
 
You can get a "fair" idea of what the battery is doing AFTER you have wrenched the engine over and made sure it's free

Put a meter (with a helper directly onto the battery posts, NOT the cables or clamps. Jumper the starter, and take a voltage measurement.

IF the voltage is very very low, below 10v or less, either the battery is bad or the starter is REAL bad or locked up

IF the voltage at the battery posts is higher, 10.5 or higher, this indicates the starter may not be pulling very hard, IE has an internal problem such as a bad field.

I'd be yankin the battery out and either drop in one out of your other cars for test, or take the "new" battery down and find someone to LOAD TEST the battery

Load tester:

tester.jpg


You can ALSO use the same tester -- if you can bring it to the car location-- to determine how much the starter is drawing.
 
Start with load testing the battery. If you don't have a load tester, put a volt meter on the battery and see what the voltage is, with the key off, on, and start. Let us know the results.
 
I assume a slant six (can't see the video at work). If so, the starter is right on top. Connect a multimeter between the biggest stud on the starter (red) and the aluminum body of the starter (blk). Sand each point first to insure a good connection. While you (screwdriver method or remote starter) or a helper (key) run the starter, record the voltage reading. If >9 V, the electrical supply is OK and the starter is probably bad. The later assumes you can turn the engine over by hand, as many suggested. Do this by pushing and pulling on the fan belt with 2 hands (rotate cw, push w/ upper hand, pull w/ lower hand). If you can't turn it by hand, don't blame the starter. If you don't have a multimeter, only ~$6 at Harbor Freight (free w/ coupon).

If your starter is bad, I recommend replacing it with a "mini-starter" from Magnum engines (RAM pickup, etc ~1988+). You can buy rebuilt on ebay ($60 w/ shipping) or much cheaper used from junkyard. It is half the size & weight, spins faster, and draws less current (I think).
 
Haven't gotten time to drop the rad to test the engine(no room to test with it in), the starter works, it tries to engage the engine, but the engine itself makes NO noise. I'll update again when I've had time to try hand cranking the block, as it stands, if it's not the engine I'm lost, the only thing I thought of was alternator, but from previous experience it should still crank the block with a bad one. If the block cranks what should I do next? Replace everything going up to the ignition?
 
If the "crankshaft" won't turn, playing with the ignition won't help a bit. You should be able to turn the crank by hand without removing the radiator. Reach down and try to turn the balancer or turn the fan while you push in on the fan belt. The crank should rotate even if only a little. If not, pull the starter and see if you can turn the converter with a pry bar on the ring gear.
 
cudamark said:
If the "crankshaft" won't turn, playing with the ignition won't help a bit. You should be able to turn the crank by hand without removing the radiator. Reach down and try to turn the balancer or turn the fan while you push in on the fan belt. The crank should rotate even if only a little. If not, pull the starter and see if you can turn the converter with a pry bar on the ring gear.
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wrjjol.jpg
 

UnicronHound,
You are driving us nuts. A lot of people spent time trying to help you and you don't report back after a week. You also started muddying things up with questions about hypothetical future problems. Do you want to get shunned? Have you yet tried turning over the engine by rotating the fan belt with 2 hands? I have never had a slant you couldn't do this, even with really good compression. Do you even have a slant? The video is so dark I can't tell for sure.
 
hey uni, just push the fan by a blade to the right and then pull up on the fan belt between crank and alternator...if it turns, try jumping the starter at the 2 terminals, now if u say the battery is good...then as long as the starter is good, it should start...
at this point it can only be 1 of 3 things.

1. make sure the motor hasnt froze
2.make the sure the battery is good
3.test the starter if the above is good and it still doesnt start.
 
BillGrissom said:
UnicronHound,
You are driving us nuts. A lot of people spent time trying to help you and you don't report back after a week. You also started muddying things up with questions about hypothetical future problems. Do you want to get shunned? Have you yet tried turning over the engine by rotating the fan belt with 2 hands? I have never had a slant you couldn't do this, even with really good compression. Do you even have a slant? The video is so dark I can't tell for sure.
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I asked those questions so that, should it not crank what would be the best thing to do next, so that I'm prepared. Yes, this car is an all original base model 1963 sedan, so yes, it has a slant six. As for not reporting back, I had other things to worry about, I can't update every single day, especially since I can't work on the Valiant everyday. I unplugged all of the sparkplug wires and the fan itself moves now, but the fan belt doesn't, which doesn't make sense, I was always told they're supposed move in tandem.
 
Don't get hung up on the fan. The belt is slipping. What these guys are trying to get you to do is determine IF THE ENGINE IS STUCK. If you cannot turn the engine with the fan, find a socket for the front crank bolt, or a strap wrench around the dampener.

If you cannot turn it by those two methods, get underneath, remove the dust cover on the transmission, and see if you can (carefully) turn the engine by prying in the starter ring gear teeth with a large screwdriver. You could probably do that more easily by removing the starter. While you have the starter out, you can us that as an excuse to run the starter "in are" to see if it seems OK. Just hook jumper cables to the starter, ground and the big stud, then jumper across to small stud, and it should throw the rear out and spin "dramatically." (How's that for a technical term?)
 
I tried all the ways people have said, besides the flywheel. I can't get a socket onto the crank bolt because there's two pulleys involved with it, I need to know if I should remove the front most pulley to access it. I'll try and get real pictures of the problem tomorrow when it's light out. Also for the strap wrench, I nearly broken it trying, and the rubber strap wrench I tried was shredded in the attempt. I attempted to show how the engine is laid out, and what problem I'm currently facing. I know that these are crude drawings, so bare with me, for the first pic it shows the engine block, the two crank shaft pulleys, and the fan pulley above them. The second one is a front view, I can't feel or see a bolt on it at all, besides the outer bolts meant to hold the second pulley on, even when I moved the radiator out of the way I had no luck. The hole where the bolt should be under is so small I can't even get my pinky finger into it.
 

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If it's like most slant 6's, there won't be a balancer bolt. It's so easy to pull the starter that I would do that to see if the engine will rotate with the pry bar.
 
If you cannot turn the engine with a strap wrench, you PROBABLY have something seized, or something like a converter/ flex plate bolt came out and jammed. There is some possibility that the starter is jammed.

I'd do one of two things, maybe both.

Pull the crank pulleys off if necessary to access the crank bolt. Or, remove the starter, AND the transmission inspection cover, look around up in there for foreign material, broken nuts/ bolts jammed in the converter/ ring gear, etc.
 
Check your grounds, especially the one on the block. Any time I've ever heard a clicking while trying to start, it's been a bad ground.
 
70DartMike said:
Check your grounds, especially the one on the block. Any time I've ever heard a clicking while trying to start, it's been a bad ground.
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I sanded down the spot on the block so it was clean metal, and the starter was new, so I didn't see a reason to sand it down, especially when the bolt on it was bare metal.


As for the other comments, I'll try the pry bar next, if that does nothing, then I'll remove the front pulley. Only problem is how tight of a squeeze it is to remove the pulley with the fan, radiator, and alternator support bar being in the way. I probably won't be able to update for a couple days, I'll let you all know if it cranks, or if I failed.
 
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