Changing VIN #'s and VIN's for Sale

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greenhornet said:
Obviously you don't know "what if" or what a "fictional example" is.. I can get a title, I have all the paper work to get it... If you found a hemi cuda with no VIN's on it would you part it out or explore other option with the car (you would explore other options because it would benifit YOU)??? The only "illegal" talk I'm seeing on here is about VIN's.. It's IRONIC that no one is cryin about, OPEN TITLES (thats illegal in most states), HAVING A GOOD OLE BOY DO YOUR INSPECTION (that's a felony in NC), REMOVING CATS AND SMOG EQUIPPMENT (also illegal).. I've not seen a pic of one mopar on here yet post-1970's that is "truely legal" (every state law is different ofcourse)... I'm no mopar expert , but I'm pretty sure dusters did come with non-smog big blocks...
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What you're talking about is comparing apples to oranges. Taking off the smog stuff is as easy as unbolting a few brackets or welding up a new exhaust. Items which can easily be replaced if necessary. Altering the state of the car can also be unaltered. Big block in Duster? It's held in with bolts which can be unbolted. The mods can be undone to return it to it's original state. If you decide to sell, then the new owner is aware of this and is either comfortable with it or willing to move on.

Putting the VIN from another car on yours is called fraud. It can't truly be "undone" like performance mods. If you decide to sell, then full disclosure means that you have to tell the buyer he or she is now going to be in possession of an illegally documented car. Lost sale right there, especially, since you said yourself, if you know what you're doing then you know what to look for in the numbers. Oh, but the buyer beware caveat means that you can lie to them and walk away. What you're looking for is an ease of conscience. Someone to pat you on the head and tell you "it's okay."

As for what's fact from fiction, why this thread started almost on the heels of your other thread looking for another '66 (or parts car) and use your own car as an example.

As for the example of the HemiCuda...BS. Considering the numbers are "missing" the car now has no value. If VIN, data plate, broadcast sheet, door sticker, core support and/or trunk stampings are gone, you have no way to verify it's a true Hemi car and are therefore trying to pass off something that's now a worthless hunk of rotting metal. (Your word was VINs -plural.)

If on the other hand those numbers are there: well, NY DMV has ways to bring this car back to life, legally, using the numbers which exist.

But then again, using the HemiCuda as an example is just a piss poor example given your prior statements that's it's not okay on the "high end" stuff, just okay on the "lesser cars." By your own statements you wouldn't do it to a Hemi car, either, now would you?
 
greenhornet said:
67-69 big block A-bodys weren't "DUSTERS"..... They were darts and barracudas....
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That's precisely my point, there were no big block Dusters from the factory and therefor no VIN's for them either. A Duster with a big block is an obvious custom car. No way to pass that off as real....none are.
 
ramenth...............


You said it all.

And my car has a .508 cam, headers and flowmasters but still has the original Thermoquad and smog equiptment.

Is it still legal ???? In Florida it is. And it retains ALL the original numbers.
 
greenhornet said:
I'm not worried about getting a legal title for my 66, I have the paper work... How many mopars are out there that don't have the correct paper work that will be parted out or crushed only for that reason??
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Nobody with any sense would crush a car over lack of paperwork. Every state has a lien process to get ownership established. Now there may be some cars that aren't worth the trouble but then why fret about those?
 
yellowdartdave said:
ramenth...............


You said it all.

And my car has a .508 cam, headers and flowmasters but still has the original Thermoquad and smog equiptment.

Is it still legal ???? In Florida it is. And it retains ALL the original numbers.
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In Ca. it's legal too as long as it's a '74 or older model. If it's a '75 and newer, it would have to pass visual and a sniff test.
 
ramenth...............

I said I was looking for a "PARTS CAR" not a VIN or title... Like I've said here about 4 times now I have the paper work to get a legal title for my 66... The point I'm trying to make is people are judgeing other people for doing something illegal when most on here are/or have been doing illegal stuff with their hot rods for years.. It's a double standard to judge others just like you're judgeing me... I've never changed a VIN and don't ever plan on it...
 
Good debate guys, If ramenth scores a VIN-less hemi cuda he's going to hook us all up with all kinda cheap cuda parts!!! Just kiddin' ramenth.....
 
greenhornet said:
ramenth...............

I said I was looking for a "PARTS CAR" not a VIN or title... Like I've said here about 4 times now I have the paper work to get a legal title for my 66... The point I'm trying to make is people are judgeing other people for doing something illegal when most on here are/or have been doing illegal stuff with their hot rods for years.. It's a double standard to judge others just like you're judgeing me... I've never changed a VIN and don't ever plan on it...
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I think we all have the right to judge people according to what they do as long as we're not the ones imposing the legal penalty. You can't equate jaywalking with armed robbery. Both are illegal but a jaywalker is just foolish....the armed robber is "scum". I don't think anyone here is condeming you for your thoughts but just pointing out the flaws in your logic.
 
Two wrongs don't make a right... I really like this web-site, I'm not judgein anyone... I'm sure it would blow all our minds at the people who are reading this post who are sitting their with a mopar who's paper work is in limbo..
 
caferacerx said:
what if say you have two 1969 slant six 904 darts
1st car, rusted out frame rails and floors hit in the back hard, crunching both quarter panels good title
2nd car, solid frame rails good floors straight body no title
and you want to build a big block 4 speed car?
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Get a title for the car first and then build your 4 speed car. How do you think a towing company gets title to a vehicle after they impound one? They impose a lien for the tow and storage and if the lien isn't satisfied by the registered owner, the car is theirs to sell/auction/keep.
 
volare360rt, have you seen these? They will let your engine breath easy and get you by the cops!
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_...d=331&osCsid=fa443bea4ea711d3511246233c636564

greenhornet, there is a big dif between getting a car you restomodded registered and doing a vin swap.
As far as legal cars on the road, there's plenty of em! Lot's of guys do restorations. Also, in Florida it's pretty wide open as far as what is legal. It should also be noted that having all of your factory smog equipment does not guarantee a cleaner running car. My buds turbo 383 burns cleaner than most new cars on the road....but CARB doesn't care...no money in that!
 
greenhornet said:
ramenth...............

I said I was looking for a "PARTS CAR" not a VIN or title... Like I've said here about 4 times now I have the paper work to get a legal title for my 66... The point I'm trying to make is people are judgeing other people for doing something illegal when most on here are/or have been doing illegal stuff with their hot rods for years.. It's a double standard to judge others just like you're judgeing me... I've never changed a VIN and don't ever plan on it...
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Hardly what you would call "judging," just pointing out the flaws in your argument and linking those flaws in logic back to what you've said throughout this "debate." Like I've pointed out, mods can be undone. Rebodying a car can't. If you think that's comparing apples to apples: one may get you a fine from the state, the other will get your *** sued off the face of the planet, plus the legal penalties.

greenhornet said:
Good debate guys, If ramenth scores a VIN-less hemi cuda he's going to hook us all up with all kinda cheap cuda parts!!! Just kiddin' ramenth.....
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Like you said, since you opened up this thread with the statement that you wouldn't even consider doing something like this with the "higher end" cars, I guess if you came across one you'd have some parts to sell, too, wouldn't you?

By the way, I have an E-body which could use some donor parts. If that unverifiable Hemi car missing all it's numbers becomes available I'll be sure to pick it over for the parts I need first.
 
This doesn't only happen with older cars.You have no idea how many fake Honda Civic Type Rs or Integra Type Rs Ive seen trying to be sold.For 1,Type R Civics are Japan only.Stupid kids try to just put a VTECH in a base Civic,then put Type R badges on it.Not even trying to compare Hondas to our cars,just making an example that this deception is also done with newer cars.
 
ramenth

By the way, I have an E-body which could use some donor parts. If that unverifiable Hemi car missing all it's numbers becomes available I'll be sure to pick it over for the parts I need first.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about your "'74 Bacaruda"?? Is that like a south american built mopar or something?
 
greenhornet said:
ramenth

By the way, I have an E-body which could use some donor parts. If that unverifiable Hemi car missing all it's numbers becomes available I'll be sure to pick it over for the parts I need first.
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Are you talking about your "'74 Bacaruda"?? Is that like a south american built mopar or something?[/QUOTE]


Bacaruda (or Back-a-ruda) was an old commercial from Chrysler. A lot of people call Barracudas Bacaruda's still today because of it.
 
ramenth said:
Since you're talking B-bodies it's not alright for that basket case A12 car to donate all it's numbers to a clean Coronet body and be passed off as an A12 because it's higher end, meaning the potential buyer is a higher end client, but that basket case 340 Duster can donate it's numbers to a clean slant car cause the guy who may be interested in that is - what - a lower end buyer, is that what you're saying? One buyer, not that car, but the buyer is worthy of being dealt with honestly, but the other isn't? So what if he was deceived into paying $20,000 for a $10,000 car. It's okay, because he wasn't deceived into paying a $100,000 for a $10,000 car? Sure the money isn't the same, but the money is still lost to deception. Hence the reason most states make it a criminal act.

Got news for you. For a lot of folks, that $20,000 grand is as large as a $100,000. If that person has a dream and needs to save to make that dream come true that somehow makes that person unworthy?
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AMEN!
To some of us $2000.00 is like $100K!!8)
Lucky for me no one usually wants to fake a 4 door car!:cheers:
 
ramenth said:
Are you talking about your "'74 Bacaruda"?? Is that like a south american built mopar or something?
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Bacaruda (or Back-a-ruda) was an old commercial from Chrysler. A lot of people call Barracudas Bacaruda's still today because of it.[/QUOTE]

Never saw the commercial, first time I've ever heard one called that..
 
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