Changing VIN #'s and VIN's for Sale

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greenhornet

greenhornet

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This seems to be quiet a debate, I think it comes down to "buyer beware".. Know what you're looking at and buying before you fork out 10 to $20,000.00 for that Mopar.. All I ever had was high end B-body Mopars (before I got a 66 Valiant to big block), I know where "EVERY" VIN is at on a B-body, I never changed any VIN's, I'm just saying It's pretty easy to figure out a fake... Then we have "it's breaking the law and anyone who does it is scum".. That's a pretty harsh judgement, so I'm guessing that none of you guys who are passing this judgement has ever, oh lets say, "CUT A CAT CONVERTER OFF YOUR CAR and removed a smog pump???? That's breaking the law, does it make you scum??? Or done a burnout on a public road, that's breaking the law again... How about that 100 mph plus blast late at night on a traffic free strech of highway?? I don't know of a hot rodder out there that hasn't broke the law.. I had my 70 GTX up to 140 mph and it wasn't in my driveway... On high end cars I think it's wrong to mess with the VIN's, If it's a low end crapper just to have fun with, I'm open minded...
 
The Breaking the Law that you mention greenhornet of speeding, burnouts, and such is no way close to the law breaking and mostly decieving a un suspecting buyer of a part of history that had never been created from the factory... Not only are you changing history when you change a car you are re wrighting it to your own liking and it is being done for your own profit... Changing cars is cool but DON'T push it off as being something that it's not.. Yes there are numbers all over the car and yes those numbers can be changed making a FAKE out of something that it is not... I have been lucky enough to have owned many Mopar muscle cars over the years and have even stumbled across some fakes in my day bringing it to there attention... We all can make mistakes in life, but when it's done knowling breaking the law in de fruading someone I don't take it lightly and neither should you... It only hurts the hobby and the one that's been cheated... This is just my opinion... .........................:read2:John(onecatnodog)Collins
 
..........In Canada it is still and will always b against the law.........It only takes 1ce 2 b ripped off by some1 whom u think is totally honest about that special car their selling u 2 appreciate the fact that it that swapping vin#s is illigal...........Now adays lots of ppl r up on whats going on in the muscle car commumity, no so years ago........ur comparisons r not even close.......................kim......
 
Speeding and burn outs are trafic violations, breaking the law yes. Changing numbers is fruad, breaking the law big time. Big differance!
 
Like I said, I think it's wrong to mess with the VIN's on a high end mopar (from a pure profit stand point)... How many good mopars have you seen that were stripped down and used for drag cars? What's your option with these cars? Part them out? or try and get a VIN? Not for resale purpose but just for personal use...
 
jaws said:
Speeding and burn outs are trafic violations, breaking the law yes. Changing numbers is fruad, breaking the law big time. Big differance!
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Ok, those 2 are traffic violations.. Whats cutting off a cat converter and removing smog equipment??? That's more then a violation, and I'm gusssin 95% of the hot rodders on here have done it...
 
Since you're talking B-bodies it's not alright for that basket case A12 car to donate all it's numbers to a clean Coronet body and be passed off as an A12 because it's higher end, meaning the potential buyer is a higher end client, but that basket case 340 Duster can donate it's numbers to a clean slant car cause the guy who may be interested in that is - what - a lower end buyer, is that what you're saying? One buyer, not that car, but the buyer is worthy of being dealt with honestly, but the other isn't? So what if he was deceived into paying $20,000 for a $10,000 car. It's okay, because he wasn't deceived into paying a $100,000 for a $10,000 car? Sure the money isn't the same, but the money is still lost to deception. Hence the reason most states make it a criminal act.

Got news for you. For a lot of folks, that $20,000 grand is as large as a $100,000. If that person has a dream and needs to save to make that dream come true that somehow makes that person unworthy?
 
Personally, I'd never deceive a buyer on a car.. Some guys do and I know that's a problem, thats where "buyer beware" kicks in, know how to I.D. the car before you go look at it.. It doesn't take much common sence to figure out a car has been messed with, if you do your research before hand... I just figured out last night from reading the VIN threads that this was such a big issue.. Obviously ebay has stricter rules on selling cat converters then thay do VIN's, Last time I sold cat converters on ebay they pulled every auction I listed because I didn't have the EPA disclosure and I was stating what the cat was removed from, so I put the EPA crap on the auctions and just wrote on the cat what it was off of.. Theres always away around the issue no matter how hard you try and stop the pratice...
 
what if say you have two 1969 slant six 904 darts
1st car, rusted out frame rails and floors hit in the back hard, crunching both quarter panels good title
2nd car, solid frame rails good floors straight body no title
and you want to build a big block 4 speed car?
 
greenhornet said:
Like I said, I think it's wrong to mess with the VIN's on a high end mopar (from a pure profit stand point)... How many good mopars have you seen that were stripped down and used for drag cars? What's your option with these cars? Part them out? or try and get a VIN? Not for resale purpose but just for personal use...
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I agree with your own use, My Duster Is a Twister originally 318 3 speed and Hemi Orange. While it was apart getting done early 90's my buddie suggetsed making it a 71 plumcrazy 340 speed he had the Drivers door and dash from a car that was wrecked. I didn't do it cause liked the Orange better and woulda to me have to remove every little bit of orange, if It woulda been done it was just for me still have the car. But guy that screwd me on a 340 few years ago was doing it for fraud. I heard he was taking satelittes and making Road runners to unsuspecting people.... SOB D
 
caferacerx said:
what if say you have two 1969 slant six 904 darts
1st car, rusted out frame rails and floors hit in the back hard, crunching both quarter panels good title
2nd car, solid frame rails good floors straight body no title
and you want to build a big block 4 speed car?
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I'll get stoned for my reply here, if it's for personal use and your'e not building it to con anyone, I'd VIN it if that was my "only" option to get the car on the road.. In North Carolina you can build like a rat-rod from pure junk and get it titled, you just have to explain where all the parts came from and title it as the year you built it, every state has different laws, in Georgia and Alabama you don't even have to have a title..
 
plumcrazy704406 said:
people and there logic never cease to amaze me!
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Let me ask you a question on your comment.. I just bought a 66 Valiant out of Tennessee, it's from Georgia (a non-title state).. The car has a near perfect body.. I have the build sheet, I.D fender card, last owner tag info, bill of sale and pretty much every record possible on the car since 1966.. What if North Carolina refuses to give me a ligit title for this car?? Should I "A" junk an awesome little mopar because of red tape or "B" find a North Carolina title and VIN??? "If" those were my only options...
 
greenhornet said:
Let me ask you a question on your comment.. I just bought a 66 Valiant out of Tennessee, it's from Georgia (a non-title state).. The car has a near perfect body.. I have the build sheet, I.D fender card, last owner tag info, bill of sale and pretty much every record possible on the car since 1966.. What if North Carolina refuses to give me a ligit title for this car?? Should I "A" junk an awesome little mopar because of red tape or "B" find a North Carolina title and VIN??? "If" those were my only options...
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So your whole idea for a "new" VIN was that you just bought a car with no proof of ownership, legally documented through another state. And you just talked about re-VIN-ing with the idea of buyer beware...

That's ironic.
 
so you would have no problem with someone going to a scrap yard,buying a rusted out wreck "for parts" even a /6 car
finding something you like
STEALING THE CAR
painting the car to match your vin plates and making the car your own
after all,"that is the only way to get the car on the road"


THIS is why it is illegal to rebody cars

its a slippery slope on what is OK and what isnt
I am Canadian so I dont know American laws ect
but why would you buy a car and put alot of effort into it without a title
I personally dont touch my cars until i have the car in my name
if something happens then I dont have anything but the purchase price into it

greenhornet-why would NC refuse to give you a title?
if you have all the documents-I dont get American laws I guess
every state has their own,and heaven forbid you have to deal with another country-I mean state LOL

for your own personal use
how would you insure that-as an original hemi cuda-or a clone-what does the vin say...
OK so what if something happens to you
you family is gonna see your all original Hemi cuda and....
something comes up and you sell it,what will the new owner do with it?
or that perfect body you bought with no title was accualy stolen,stripped revined from a NON title state .........

buyer beware of course
be just as careful with a /6 car with a 340


before someone asks if I have done anything illegal :)
I have switched licence plates from car to car-but as a temporary situation
I picked up a replacement and/or parts car for my DD
slapped my plates on it to get it home,and to see how the drivetrain is,take it for a safety/etest so I know if it is worth putting money in or using it for parts
didnt put any work into it untill I put it in my name

pulling emissions equipment off a car is illegal-my 83 truck is still gonna get cats-and its 20 years old so no more etest,but if I get pulled over and it gets looked at it is a fine for not having it.....

drinking and driving is also illegal-and anyone that makes up excuses to justify it is an idiot
speeding,burnouts ect is illegal-if you get caught do you try to justify it? is it the cops fault?

and OLDKIMMER
your post game me a headache
took awhile to read it and still dont understand half of it lol
 
Some great ethical and philosophical questions asked here. My $.02 worth.......The only reason to pull a VIN plate/fender tag should be to repair/replace/repaint what it's attached to and then reinstalled. You can make all the clones you want, just don't pass it off as "real". Here in Ca. if you have a vehicle with no VIN, you can have one assigned to the car by the Highway Patrol after they look it over and verify it isn't stolen. Cars with no paperwork are easy....you just go through the lien process. Takes 10-36? days depending the cars "value" as determined by the lien holder (you). As for those who say they're swapping VIN's for "their own use".....nonsense....they're planning on screwing somebody down the road. They can't convince me that driving a clone feels any different than driving an original or one faked into looking like one. The only situation that sticks in my craw is when the state gets involved and kills a VIN for whatever goofy bureaucratic reason they come up with. (ie. involved in a crime/smuggling/drugs/ etc) Why blame the car? Same logic for blaming weapons for crimes I guess......
Mark
 
ramenth said:
So your whole idea for a "new" VIN was that you just bought a car with no proof of ownership, legally documented through another state. And you just talked about re-VIN-ing with the idea of buyer beware...

That's ironic.
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Obviously you don't know "what if" or what a "fictional example" is.. I can get a title, I have all the paper work to get it... If you found a hemi cuda with no VIN's on it would you part it out or explore other options with the car (you would explore other options because it would benifit YOU)!!! The only "illegal" talk I'm seeing on here is about VIN's.. It's IRONIC that no one is cryin about, OPEN TITLES (thats illegal in most states), HAVING A GOOD OLE BOY DO YOUR INSPECTION (that's a felony in NC), REMOVING CATS AND SMOG EQUIPPMENT (also illegal).. I've not seen a pic of one mopar on here yet post-1970's that is "truely legal" (every state law is different ofcourse)... I'm no mopar expert , but I'm pretty sure dusters didn't come with non-smog big blocks...
 
greenhornet said:
Let me ask you a question on your comment.. I just bought a 66 Valiant out of Tennessee, it's from Georgia (a non-title state).. The car has a near perfect body.. I have the build sheet, I.D fender card, last owner tag info, bill of sale and pretty much every record possible on the car since 1966.. What if North Carolina refuses to give me a ligit title for this car?? Should I "A" junk an awesome little mopar because of red tape or "B" find a North Carolina title and VIN??? "If" those were my only options...
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Why not just register the car in a state that will accept the paperwork you have and then after you get a title, reregister it in your state? Do you have private DMV service companies in your state? They usually know the ins and outs of those type of problems.
 
greenhornet said:
Obviously you don't know "what if" or what a "fictional example" is.. I can get a title, I have all the paper work to get it... If you found a hemi cuda with no VIN's on it would you part it out or explore other options with the car (you would explore other options because it would benifit YOU)!!! The only "illegal" talk I'm seeing on here is about VIN's.. It's IRONIC that no one is cryin about, OPEN TITLES (thats illegal in most states), HAVING A GOOD OLE BOY DO YOUR INSPECTION (that's a felony in NC), REMOVING CATS AND SMOG EQUIPPMENT (also illegal).. I've not seen a pic of one mopar on here yet post-1970's that is "truely legal" (every state law is different ofcourse)... I'm no mopar expert , but I'm pretty sure dusters didn't come with non-smog big blocks...
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I would explore other LEGAL options. Your state should have a procedure for a lost VIN or other ID problems. Oh, and the only factory big block A-bodies were from '67-9.
Thanks, Mark
 
Huh? I just bought a 75 W100 4X4 short bed pickup from central Idaho. The Vin is located on the drivers door on these trucks and the door has been swapped out, but the price was right. I thought that I was buying a 75 W100 with the Utline bed. Come to find out the cab is the only thing that is a 75 D100 model, the bed is from who knows what and the frame and drivetrain is from a 72-74 model. It does cause some confusion, but I am not too butt hurt about it. Basicly my title is for my drivers door. LOL It's still a cool truck and plan on restoring it.

75%20dodge.jpg
 
I'm not worried about getting a legal title for my 66, I have the paper work... How many mopars are out there that don't have the correct paper work that will be parted out or crushed only for that reason??
 
cudamark said:
I would explore other LEGAL options. Your state should have a procedure for a lost VIN or other ID problems. Oh, and the only factory big block A-bodies were from '67-9.
Thanks, Mark
Click to expand...

67-69 big block A-bodys weren't "DUSTERS"..... They were darts and barracudas....
 
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