Chassis Guy/gals that understand SS Spring....Help!

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Cudafever

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So i understand the stiffer right rear spring over the left spring and why they built it that way.
just a little info before i go in.
have been freeing up some stiff part in my front end.(aka binding)
See this thread.
Stiff front end looking at aftermarket solutions

SO i'm setting my Ride Height today and it occurs to me that it is taking a LOT more torsion aka pressure on the L side then the right and its still not level.

Before i started on this project the Left side was 2 Inch lower than the Right front side.
I did this because i thought it was a good idea.........

Now it's back together and have been reading in my chassis book(Door Slammers, the chassis book)
I understand better why the Right Rear SS Spring has to be stiffer and taller.............and in return the diagonal load is put on the Left front tire.

Now with all that said
i have been trying to get the Ride Height Equal, between L and R front sides.
This has been difficult, and the torsion bar bolts aka tension is way way tighter on the driver side(left) and it is still lower then the passenger side by a Half of a inch.

Now The Question!!!!!!
Do i call that good or do i keep loosing the passanger side torsion bar and tightening the driver side bar.................or do i let the driver side have that 2 inch drop it had before????

Thanks in advance.
 
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Cudafever said:
So i understand the stiffer right rear spring over the left spring and why they built it that way.
just a little info before i go in.
have been freeing up some stiff part in my front end.
See this thread.
Stiff front end looking at aftermarket solutions

SO i'm setting my Ride Height today and it occurs to me that it is taking a LOT more torsion aka pressure on the L side then the right and its still not level.

Before i started on this project the Left side was 2 Inch lower than the Right front side.
I did this because i thought it was a good idea.........

Now it's back together and have been reading in my chassis book(Door Slammers, the chassis book)
I understand better why the Right Rear SS Spring has to be stiffer and taller.............and in return the diagonal load is put on the Left front tire.

Now with all that said
i have been trying to get the Ride Height Equal, between L and R front sides.
This has been difficult, and the torsion bar bolts aka tension is way way tighter on the driver side(left) and it is still lower then the passenger side by a Half of a inch.

Now The Question!!!!!!
Do i call that good or do i keep loosing the passanger side torsion bar and tightening the driver side bar.................or do i let the driver side have that 2 inch drop it had before????

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
My Dart is the same way. Try lowering the passenger side.
My dart hardly required any tension on the passenger side.
Some, but not nearly as much as the driver side.
I would leave the drivers side about an inch lower. It will even out on hard acceleration by design.
 
The easiest solution would be to use two 002 or two 003 springs. Which ever one that you like the ride height with.
 
That's the other thing.
When i set my lard *** in the drivers seat, the driver side drops 1-1/8" and the passenger side only 7/16"
So race weight, the drivers side is down about 2 inches
 
Cudafever said:
Ride Height for look, i could care less. This is all about the best method for the best hook!
Click to expand...
Well you make it sound like your after an equal stance? If this is about the hook, leave the right rear higher and let them work like they are designed to work. I've used several sets over the years and they work great. I race a BB 71 Scamp with them that would 60' in the 1.35-1.38 area using 002/003. And yes it sat higher in the right rear.
 
Cudafever said:
Ride Height for look, i could care less. This is all about the best method for the best hook!
Click to expand...

In that case here's what you do. Put the torsion bar adjustment back as closely as you can to where it was before you ever adjusted them. Now, measure the difference between the left and right rear sides of the car from the frame rails to the ground at the rear of the car. Finally, take that measurement and transfer it to the front. In other words, adjust the front to match the rear. When a Mopar has SS springs installed for traction, the whole car is supposed to sit lower on the left side for preparation for launch. It's as you said, best method for hook and that's it.
 
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RustyRatRod said:
In that case here's what you do. Put the torsion bar adjustment back as closely as you can to where it was before you ever adjusted them. Now, measure the difference between the left and right rear sides of the car from the frame rails to the ground at the rear of the car. Finally, take that measurement and transfer it to the front. In other words, adjust the front to match the rear. When a Mopar has SS springs installed for traction, the whole car is supposed to sit lower on the left side for preparation for launch. It's as you said, best method for hook and that's it.
Click to expand...
This is how i felt as well, and is how i set it up last time.........
When reading in my chassis book, it got me thinking that i might want a bit more weight in the LF tire over the RF Tire.

super stock springs.jpg
 
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The back should be set with your SS springs, higher on the right.

An old school trick, or setup would be to adjust the front, with the driver in the car. So basically the left front should be higher without the driver in the car. I would adjust the front to the stock measurements, and than a touch higher on the left. Making it so it is level when you get in.
 
Yup higher on right/ passenger side.

At its current adjustment, the Driver side front is 1/2 inch higher than the passenger side.(without me in it)
The adjuster nut, for the torsion bar, is below the lower control surface on the drivers side and you can see the full nut sticking out of the passenger side.
 
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SGBARRACUDA said:
Well you make it sound like your after an equal stance? If this is about the hook, leave the right rear higher and let them work like they are designed to work. I've used several sets over the years and they work great. I race a BB 71 Scamp with them that would 60' in the 1.35-1.38 area using 002/003. And yes it sat higher in the right rear.
Click to expand...

agree with all of that. But...
On the front of the car, did you level the front of the car or did you let the LF fender dip below the Rf fender?????
 
In your original post, you said the front left was 2" lower.As I mentioned in my post, you want the front left a little higher, or level when you sit in the car. They call the look with SS springs the "Stinkbug" look.

In regards to the lower control arm bolt heights. This all depends on how the bolts were installed, and the clocking of the torsion bars.
 
Cudafever said:
agree with all of that. But...
On the front of the car, did you level the front of the car or did you let the LF fender dip below the Rf fender?????
Click to expand...
I adjusted the front almost level with the right because of my 300 ***. Right rear was substantially higher than the left.
 
Johnny Dart said:
In your original post, you said the front left was 2" lower.As I mentioned in my post, you want the front left a little higher, or level when you sit in the car. They call the look with SS springs the "Stinkbug" look.

In regards to the lower control arm bolt heights. This all depends on how the bolts were installed.
Click to expand...

Please explain that further. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup Stinkbug look.
The front was 2 inch lower with my lard *** in it. and about a inch with out me in it.
Have cranked the driver side t- bar up a little bit more while waiting on responses.
 
I need to get it into the alignment shop this week end. Hoping the weather will allow me to.
So i need to get this nailed down because i'm not.....or don't want to change the ride height after the alignment is done.
 
Cudafever said:
Please explain that further. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yup Stinkbug look.
The front was 2 inch lower with my lard *** in it. and about a inch with out me in it.
Have cranked the driver side t- bar up a little bit more while waiting on responses.
Click to expand...

Cudafever said:
I need to get it into the alignment shop this week end. Hoping the weather will allow me to.
So i need to get this nailed down because i'm not.....or don't want to change the ride height after the alignment is done.
Click to expand...

For the first question, the clocking on the bars and the installation of the adjuster bolts. If you don't install the LCA's as per the factory instructions it is sometimes possible to install the LCA's one hex flat off of what was originally intended. That results in a different adjuster setting, and can make a BIG difference in ride height because the angle on the LCA starts 60° off of what it was intended to be. Basically it starts at the complete opposite end of its range of travel.

Now, that being said. If you have stock lower control arms and factory torsion bars it's not easy to install the LCA's a hex flat off. Typically that only becomes a possibility if you're using aftermarket torsion bars, which frequently have a different offset on the hex ends of the torsion bar than they did from the factory. Or alternatively if you're using tubular LCA's, because the tubular LCA's with their narrower profile don't hit the K-frame when they hang down free of the torsion bars, so more clocking positions of the LCA on the hex end of the torsion bar are possible. Even with tubular LCA's and aftermarket torsion bars one hex flat off on the clocking is pretty much all you can do. And with stock parts it's not even always possible. So it's really unlikely that clocking is the issue, more than likely your adjuster settings are different because of the cross weight from the difference in the rear springs.

Which brings us to the second one, the ride height. I'm not a drag race guy, but cars with SS springs weren't supposed to sit level. In the front or the back. The whole point of the SS springs was hooking the rear wheels, so the right rear is stiffer and higher to resist the torque reaction. That makes the front left lower. If you crank on one side or the other to try and level the front you'll end up altering the corner weights, which will change how the car hooks. Specific tuning stuff beyond that I'll leave to the drag race guys.
 
Cudafever said:
Yes stock LCA and yes Clocked properly.
Click to expand...

Well then like I said, if it's stock LCA's and they were both installed using the same procedure then the difference in the adjuster settings is because of the cross weight from the difference in the rear springs. If you want the car to sit level then SS springs are not the way to go. If you want it to hook then you've got the right springs, but it won't sit level front or rear if you're trying to maximize launch traction because you need to set it up to resist the torque reaction.
 
Sometimes i Don't express myself as well as i should and this seam to be one of those times.
My questioning of the front end has "0" to do with why cant i, get my front end level.....I'M SAYING SHOULD I set my front end up lever for the best lift, Weight Transfer and Traction to the Rear Wheels.

That's why i made it about the rear SS Spring even though it about setting the ride height on the front.

I don't care if the LF fender Drags the ground, or if it look like a Old School Gasser.

What is going to work the best, at the Drag Strip........
LF 2" lower the the RF........Level.........2" higher????????????

I Had it set up 2" lower than the RF before. And now i wounder if that is part of my HOOK problem. not loading the LF tire suspension enough.
 
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So How about this.
All those using SS Spring at the Drag Strip............What did you set the ride height at on the Front end of you car. LF__? RF___? an what was your reason for doing so...................
 
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Cudafever said:
So How about this.
All those using SS Spring at the Drag Strip............What did you set the ride height at on the Front end of you car. LF__? RF___? an what was your reason for doing so...................
Click to expand...
I set my car front height to be level and the height was set to the low race height like it says in the Mopar chassis book which is just
Off of the bumper stops on the lower control arms.
My front end toe in was plotted to minimize bump steer and the car was aligned at a real alignment shop raised 1 inch with me sitting in the car, using a 28 inch tire to keep my 10 deep oil pan off the ground.
 
Cudafever said:
So i understand the stiffer right rear spring over the left spring and why they built it that way.
just a little info before i go in.
have been freeing up some stiff part in my front end.(aka binding)
See this thread.
Stiff front end looking at aftermarket solutions

SO i'm setting my Ride Height today and it occurs to me that it is taking a LOT more torsion aka pressure on the L side then the right and its still not level.

Before i started on this project the Left side was 2 Inch lower than the Right front side.
I did this because i thought it was a good idea.........

Now it's back together and have been reading in my chassis book(Door Slammers, the chassis book)
I understand better why the Right Rear SS Spring has to be stiffer and taller.............and in return the diagonal load is put on the Left front tire.

Now with all that said
i have been trying to get the Ride Height Equal, between L and R front sides.
This has been difficult, and the torsion bar bolts aka tension is way way tighter on the driver side(left) and it is still lower then the passenger side by a Half of a inch.

Now The Question!!!!!!
Do i call that good or do i keep loosing the passanger side torsion bar and tightening the driver side bar.................or do i let the driver side have that 2 inch drop it had before????

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

YOU GUYS ARE FORGETTING , THE CARS THOSE 002-003 SPRINGS WERE DESIGHNED FOR HAD DUAL /HEAVY BATTERIES ON THE PASSENGERS SIDE TO HELP PUSH THAT RIGHT SIDE TIRE DOWN / WHICH DID A LOT TO LEVEL THE CARS BACK THEN ------
 
Cudafever said:
So How about this.
All those using SS Spring at the Drag Strip............What did you set the ride height at on the Front end of you car. LF__? RF___? an what was your reason for doing so...................
Click to expand...

WE HAD THE HEAVY TRUNK MOUNTED BATTERY ON THE PASS SIDE , AND HAD THE DRIVERS SIDE TORSION BAR JACKED UP ENOUGH TO LEVEL THE 67 BELVEDERE -----------
 
I don't know if it's optimal but we just set the front heights the same and a little bit high.. it's just the way I like it and it does keep the headers off the ground. Also again I don't like the front slam to the ground..
One other thing I had the alignment set for drag racing... one of my friends from high school works at a front end shop and I had him do it and set it to my specs.. he said it would probably wear the tires on corners and stuff like that but again it was set up for a purpose.. that does buzz straight down the freeway no problem...
289d4j7.jpg

This is the chart that I showed him I told him I wanted to drag race...
 
Cudafever said:
So How about this.
All those using SS Spring at the Drag Strip............What did you set the ride height at on the Front end of you car. LF__? RF___? an what was your reason for doing so...................
Click to expand...
I should have stated this way to begin with and saved all the confusion :BangHead: sorry about that.:D

Duane said:
I set my car front height to be level and the height was set to the low race height like it says in the Mopar chassis book which is just
Off of the bumper stops on the lower control arms.
My front end toe in was plotted to minimize bump steer and the car was aligned at a real alignment shop raised 1 inch with me sitting in the car, using a 28 inch tire to keep my 10 deep oil pan off the ground.
Click to expand...

famous bob said:
WE HAD THE HEAVY TRUNK MOUNTED BATTERY ON THE PASS SIDE , AND HAD THE DRIVERS SIDE TORSION BAR JACKED UP ENOUGH TO LEVEL THE 67 BELVEDERE -----------
Click to expand...

Im around a inch off the lower bump stops at this point...........May lower the front end a little bit more.
Don't have any kind of "Real alignment shop around this area. only a friend that does alignment at a tire shop that's going to set the alignment up with a little bit more Caster, 0 Camber and 0 Toe with enough weight in the driver seat to equal 280 pounds and raised 1 inch above ride height.
 
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