Choosing a 360 block, heads etcc...

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Suregrip391

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I think I may try a 360 engine build. Having never had one or even looked into it...I was wondering if there was anything that was good, better, best when determining what year and/or casting numbers on such items would be best for me to look for??? (block and heads). Just trying to gather some facts, I may be getting a 69 barracuda fastback that I would like to put this in. Thanks in advance guys!!!
 
Suregrip391 said:
I think I may try a 360 engine build. Having never had one or even looked into it...I was wondering if there was anything that was good, better, best when determining what year and/or casting numbers on such items would be best for me to look for??? (block and heads). Just trying to gather some facts, I may be getting a 69 barracuda fastback that I would like to put this in. Thanks in advance guys!!!


Crate motor.

Cheaper, faster to put the car back in service with a warrenty. How good are your skills? Have you built an engine before? A good crate block wont need machine work and if you want to you can put a good cam in it from the get go.

If you really just want to do it all yourself you want a block made before 74. All the 360s after that used a thinner casting and you run into some problems with heating. I am dealing with that right now with a 78 truck block. Thats only if you want to bore it too .060 though. They take .010 to .030 fine.

Heads are a voodoo science equivelant to politics. Some work.. some dont... and know one agrees on the same thing.

I say again go with an aftermarket or fresh set. All the work is done you just got to put them on and go for a drive.

If you gotta build them yourself and want the experience I would go with the 88-91 360 Truck fuel injection heads (TBI). Why? Because they are easier to come across and you wont get charged a huge amount. I picked up a good set for $60. They are made to flow well and will bolt on to any 360. If they are in good condition you will still get the "feel" of what its like to rebuild heads but can avoid the higher cost of having to purchase all new parts. Valves, valve guides, seats, springs, retainers, locks, (if you change the cam you should change the springs though) if you were to get an older set of heads that had to many miles or too much wear.
A plus side to that is if you get a dumbass machine shop your not out too much when they screw up your super rare 340 TA heads or some oddball head that was a pain or expensive to find. Good machinist are worth it. Unless you have a good recommendation I would not take Hi performance parts to any one you find out of the phone book unless you have seen their work. 1st hand!

A bad machinist or job order will kind of sour your engine building experience. BE CAREFUL! And make sure you know what you are asking for when you take it in.

I really wish I would have gone the crate block route right now. A Dodge 360 Magnum engine from Summit would be good place to start.
If I would have went this route I would have had a new Magnum short block for the cost of my cam, pistons, block machine work, and labor. ( I had to get a bore sleeved.) Plus you dont have to worry about a crack in a block that didnt get found or bad piston or something. All you have to do is put the heads, manifold and exhaust and go! They used to sell magnum 360 for 300 hp for 2500 out the door. it even came with the distributor and a manifold you could sell on ebay if you didnt want a single plane!

Im not trying to knock you or sway your from building your own. But unless you have access to a free machine shop the crate engine is cheaper, better and safer in my own opinion.

Too answer your question though.

Block. Any 72-74 Thick casting 360
Heads. 4448308s 360 TBI heads
Intake. Aftermarket. Nice aluminum light weight. Well worth it.
Exhaust Manifolds...... Not sure. I got a 66 A body. 340s are really hard to find. I am going to try 360 Magnums. They are a bolt to the block and dump to the rear. You have header options for the 69 I believe.

Have fun and good luck!!!
 
willyj makes some good points about purchasing a crate 360. However, i found a 73 360 at our local pick a part yard for $75.00 and built my own. How fast you wanna' go? You can spend some coin building your own, but then you know how it is built. I spent more than I care to admit on mine, but it runs like I want and if she blows I have no one else to blame.
 
If you want some of my background I have been tinkering with engines for a while. I have helped friends who have loads of experience with small stuff. I finally wanted to build my own. File rings. Balance rods, work with compression ratio and all that......

I took a class at a local community college and that is where I built my engine (well... building....its never done till it dynos!) I took a 78 360 and had it punched out to 60 over. There was some cylinder damage. Even taking it that much was a gamble and I lost and had to sleeve one. I did not pay for the magnufluxing or sonic test and I am starting to worry about it.

For the cost I am putting in it a desk top dyno is giving me 317 horsepower at 4500 rpm and 400 foot pounds starting at 2000 rpm going to a max of 404 foot-pounds at 3500 and carrying well over 300 foot-pounds until over 5000 rpm. Thats with headers and a 750cfm carb and a few other variables. I could do better. It would just cost more.

Junk yard engines are riskier. It is best to pull the heads and check them out. Sometimes that is hard to do and I wish I would have done that. Time is short for me so I took it an ran.

Even with a few set backs its still very fun!!! I still think I would have gone the crate block though in the long run. Its cool though to see your hard work come to life!
 
Let me add that I have been lucky with 2 engines and 1 904 trans that I pulled out of cars at the same junkyard. You can also spend $ and get scrap. But it is kinda fun looking, you never know what you might find!
 
What about an 80's vintage 360 4bbl truck motor? Would this be a good candidate for a rebuild? I have an opportunity to get one for free, and I am thinking about a basic rebuild for it until I swap in a new 5.7 Hemi later next year. Waht about heads, did these motors come with the swirl port heads?
 
willyj said:
Crate motor.

Too answer your question though.

Block. Any 72-74 Thick casting 360
Heads. 4448308s 360 TBI heads
Intake. Aftermarket. Nice aluminum light weight. Well worth it.
Exhaust Manifolds...... Not sure. I got a 66 A body. 340s are really hard to find. I am going to try 360 Magnums. They are a bolt to the block and dump to the rear. You have header options for the 69 I believe.

Have fun and good luck!!!

Alot of really good info to consider. Thanks for the time you spent helping. I appreciate it. A few questions, Will just about any aftermarket manifold bolt up to the newer 308 TBI heads or should I be careful? Also, Will those 308 heads accept a set of Doug's headers that I alrwady have for an A-body. Lastly, are all 72-74 360 blocks a think casting or do I need to look for the reinforcements like they had in some of the 440 blocks? I found a guy with a few early 70's 360 complete cores for about $200/each. SOunds like a decent deal but I will have to go see. Looking forward to your reply. Thank you.
 
flyboy01 said:
What about an 80's vintage 360 4bbl truck motor? Would this be a good candidate for a rebuild? I have an opportunity to get one for free, and I am thinking about a basic rebuild for it until I swap in a new 5.7 Hemi later next year. Waht about heads, did these motors come with the swirl port heads?


How many miles? Was it taken care of?

Could be a candidate. For free I would take it. If not useable at least its a core or you have barter/trade/core parts.

Pull the heads. rotate the crank. should be nice and smooth with no resistance (some friction) or binding. push the crank back and forth in its bearings. it should not move much.

If you are new to building engines. Much like I still am I recommend getting the Mopar Performance Small Block A Engines book and How to rebuild your small block mopar through HP books. Well worth the information and answers a lot of newbie questions!

forget the swirl port myths. Just get a good set of heads built up and match port them to your intake.

318 heads with the casting 302 are close chambers. Pretty decent. Rumor has it they came on 88-91 or 92 318s. I got mine off a 88 Ramcharger with a 318. If it has TBI it probably has 302s. Pull the valve covers and look for a casting number.

360 heads. The casting number is a little harder to find. You want the 4448308s. They came on 88-92 360s with TBIs. You have to be careful with JY engines. You dont know what someone else did to that engine or if it was rebuilt with the wrong parts or parts on hands.

The 302s and 308s are supposed to be swirl ports. Hog wash I say. They were designed to work with emissions control for the fuelie or epa mandated requirement engines. Thus they were made to flow well for better mileage and power. The only difference with the combustion chambers is the 302s are close chambers and the 308s are opens. the 308s have 1.88 and 1.60 valves for the intake and exhaust. I dont know the 302s off the top of my head.
 
Suregrip391 said:
A few questions, Will just about any aftermarket manifold bolt up to the newer 308 TBI heads or should I be careful?
Yes. They are standard LA series heads.
Also, Will those 308 heads accept a set of Doug's headers that I alrwady have for an A-body.
Yes
Lastly, are all 72-74 360 blocks a think casting or do I need to look for the reinforcements like they had in some of the 440 blocks? I found a guy with a few early 70's 360 complete cores for about $200/each. SOunds like a decent deal but I will have to go see. Looking forward to your reply. Thank you.
They are the thick casting. I do not believe the reinforcement is obvious. That information is just what I have read from my mopar book and other sources.

Keep us posted on your build!
 
I Don't Know Much About The Motor, Other That 80's Vintage 360 With A Cast Iron 4bbl Intake. It Is Free, So The Price Is Right. I Have A Magnum 318 Also, I Was Thinking About Swapping The Heads On It, I Would Probably Use An Edelbrock Performer Rpm, Or The 4bbl Weiand Intake I Have On The 318 In The Dart Now. I Was Going To Try And Do The Rebuild As Cheap As Possible, Because At Best, It Would Only Be Used For Less Than A Year.
 
66dartman said:
Let me add that I have been lucky with 2 engines and 1 904 trans that I pulled out of cars at the same junkyard. You can also spend $ and get scrap. But it is kinda fun looking, you never know what you might find!
I tend to be a pessimist! Good deals are out there though! ;)
 
willyj
The 302s and 308s are supposed to be swirl ports. Hog wash I say. / forget the swirl port myths.
You have got to explain this one to me. This is the first time I have ever seen anybody post this. Oh wait, theres was that crack head....ONLY KIDDING! :thumbup:
Though this;
Just get a good set of heads built up and match port them to your intake.
Is probably the best advice I could read in the thread. (On heads) Along with a back cut of the valves and if money allows, bowl porting. Same advice on the engine itself. No matter the year, just make sure you or the machinest builds it well.

For the cost I am putting in it a desk top dyno is giving me 317 horsepower
Will you have the engine dyno'ed? I'd love to see the comparos between the 2. For surley let us know!
 
rumblefish360 said:
willyj
You have got to explain this one to me. This is the first time I have ever seen anybody post this. Oh wait, theres was that crack head....ONLY KIDDING! :thumbup:
Though this; Is probably the best advice I could read in the thread. (On heads) Along with a back cut of the valves and if money allows, bowl porting. Same advice on the engine itself. No matter the year, just make sure you or the machinest builds it well.

Will you have the engine dyno'ed? I'd love to see the comparos between the 2. For surley let us know!
Im not a crack head..... It was probably a cracked head that has made me bitter! :D

Still checking on the dyno. I need to get a bellhousing, clutch and pressure plate to see if I can hook the engine up to the dyno at work.

I am by no means an expert or an engineer. So if someone has better or more experienced advice please by all means take the advice into consideration!

Sometimes though the best way to do things is to get your feet wet and learn by your own mistakes.

[size=-2]Willy who has a set of 308 and 302 heads.....[/size]
 
HHmm. Interesting read. A few myths here. First...no such thing as a "special" 360 block. Maybe I misread that. The 71 and some 72 casting 360 blocks were cast using 340 sand cores. Because the 340 was supposed to be bored .040 larger even at std size, the blocks are thicker in the cylinder walls. Only in the walls, and the difference isnt huge. It's not like it's a race bred design. We just got lucky the foundry didnt have thier stuff together yet. Sonic check a bumch of blocks. It's very enlightening. Second..."swirl port" heads not only are far from myth, they were used up until a few years ago in everything. GM Vortec...High swirl enducing ports. Mopar Magnums, use some of the technology. The 308 casting 360 heads are open chamber, 1.88/1.60 heads that are very good runners in factory form, and can be poported to really move. The 302 casting 318 heads are closed chamber and run 1.78/1.50 valves IIRC. They use a better chamber design with the high swirl. BTW, a fellow named Larry Widmer came up with them. He worked for CHyrsler in the late 70s and early 80s. He now does head development for Honda. All their 4 valve heads, INDY stuff, racing stuff..That's all the same guy and his company that develop them for them. Third...For numerous reasons I would never use a crate engine other than to aquire all the parts to rebuild an engine. They are cheap for a reason. And they will cost more money in many instances to get running properly. They small blocks are the best crates, but that's like saying breaking your leg is better than breaking your foot.
 
willyj said:
Im not a crack head..... It was probably a cracked head that has made me bitter! :D
ROTFLMAO
willyj said:
Still checking on the dyno. I need to get a bellhousing, clutch and pressure plate to see if I can hook the engine up to the dyno at work.
Cool, hope you get it to the dyno room.
willyj said:
I am by no means an expert or an engineer. So if someone has better or more experienced advice please by all means take the advice into consideration!
A wise course of action I thinks and I do as well.
willyj said:
Sometimes though the best way to do things is to get your feet wet and learn by your own mistakes.
AMEN. To bad my wallet is getting leaner. It was great when I was younger. No kids, no payments to a house/car etc...
Now it's think, theroy and ask before build.

I'm with moper here on a create engine. But there short block were crap. I do not know how they are today. But mine was a poor machining job. Lowest bidder deal me thinks.
 
I guess becuase I live close to summit (Reno, NV) i dont think too much about a bad crate block. plus i have been to a few crate block parties. thats when one of your buddies gets a new crate block and everyone goes over to tear it down plasti guage and mic it all to see if its any good. if not...... back to summit it goes.
 
5 years ago I had a engine shop here by Detroit build my engine after I threw a rod out on the freeway. I had them do all the work even pulling and install it. Cost me something like $3,300 and 2 weeks later the back of the oil pan had a small leak after I turn it off and it sat for a while, I called them up and they did not care, said just throw a piece of cardbroard under it. This was a month after 9/11 so there was alot of funny moods of the people here-and maybe everywhere. I was upset I did not just buy a Mopar crate motor for $3000 and put it in myself. Well 25,000 miles later and after many many hard runs-it has 3.91 gears and I am a Mr. lead foot it still is runing just fine. All I have done is replace the intake gasket once-I am very picky on intake leaks and replace the water pump-they put a rebuilt one on but the bearings gave out last year and I have a electriac fan. Does not smoke or make any nosies, still leaks a little but from what I hear about those crate motors I am very happy now. The old man at the engine shop said don't worry it be fine and so far hes been right.
 
Well, alot to digest here but all makes sence. I think I will go the route of having one built vs. getting a crate engine seeing I hear alot of horror stories from people that have bought crate engines and had to rebuild them anyway...dont see the point in plopping down a bunch of coin just toi have it reworked. How popular are the 308 heads amongst (sp?) builders of the small block? I found a pair of them for $200 all rebuilt and ready to go (no core required) from a shop that has been around for the last 35 years and have an excellent repore for machining. So I may grab them. Is this a good deal? Problem is...I am undecided about doing the 360 so if I change my mind will they be hard to get rid of? Are people actively searching for these? Great info and thanks for the posts, all ideas are welcomed. Thank you.
 
Suregrip391 said:
Well, alot to digest here but all makes sence. I think I will go the route of having one built vs. getting a crate engine seeing I hear alot of horror stories from people that have bought crate engines and had to rebuild them anyway...dont see the point in plopping down a bunch of coin just toi have it reworked. How popular are the 308 heads amongst (sp?) builders of the small block? I found a pair of them for $200 all rebuilt and ready to go (no core required) from a shop that has been around for the last 35 years and have an excellent repore for machining. So I may grab them. Is this a good deal? Problem is...I am undecided about doing the 360 so if I change my mind will they be hard to get rid of? Are people actively searching for these? Great info and thanks for the posts, all ideas are welcomed. Thank you.

For $200 I'd be all over them.
 
I think I will grab them (308 heads) in case I do the project! Since these are already built for a stock 88-91 360 engine, will these be ok to run on a mldly built 340 short block running 9.5 : 1 forged pistons and a few steps above stock cam (cant remember exactly the grind here)??? I have a 340 now but plan to eventually install the 308's on the 360 block. Yes, I am doing alot of swapping here but atleast I stayed with one wife the last 4 years :wav: :)
 
Suregrip391 said:
I think I will grab them (308 heads) in case I do the project! Since these are already built for a stock 88-91 360 engine, will these be ok to run on a mldly built 340 short block running 9.5 : 1 forged pistons and a few steps above stock cam (cant remember exactly the grind here)??? I have a 340 now but plan to eventually install the 308's on the 360 block. Yes, I am doing alot of swapping here but atleast I stayed with one wife the last 4 years :wav: :)
308 heads have 1.88 intake and 1.60 exhaust
340 heads used a 2.02 intake and same exhaust.

Im not too sure what that will do. From what I have been told (im building my 360 for a truck mind you) the 2.02 is better to run at higher RPM. More flow.
The 1.80 is better for me since it will keep a better torque number which the 2.02 will hurt.

Not too sure how that works. Im just regurgitating heard and read info now. Hope someone chimes up!
 
Before you build or buy anything, you should sit down and decide what you want and what you can afford. Then start asking the other important questions. Like, Is it cheaper to do it this way or that way?
If it was me, I would be building a 360 stroked to 416 with Magnum RT aluminum heads. Would this be pricey, you bet. But as long as the rest of the car can handle it, there won't be much left in this world to scare the crap out of you. LOL

Jack
 
willyj said:
Im not too sure what that will do. From what I have been told (im building my 360 for a truck mind you) the 2.02 is better to run at higher RPM. More flow.
The 1.80 is better for me since it will keep a better torque number which the 2.02 will hurt.

Not too sure how that works. Im just regurgitating heard and read info now. Hope someone chimes up!////////and; i have been to a few crate block parties.
You got it.////and sweeeet.

Suregrip391 I think I will grab them (308 heads) in case I do the project! Since these are already built for a stock 88-91 360 engine, will these be ok to run on a mldly built 340 short block running 9.5 : 1 forged pistons and a few steps above stock cam (cant remember exactly the grind here)??? I have a 340 now but plan to eventually install the 308's on the 360 block.
Yes, your OK.

Lars said;

For $200 I'd be all over them.
Me 2. I'm eye balling a new, unused, NOS set. Come spring, if there still there, I'm grabbing them. If not......ooo-well.
 
I think I may try a 360 engine build. Having never had one or even looked into it...I was wondering if there was anything that was good, better, best when determining what year and/or casting numbers on such items would be best for me to look for??? (block and heads). Just trying to gather some facts, I may be getting a 69 barracuda fastback that I would like to put this in. Thanks in advance guys!!!

I still believe the 1971-74 360 block is the best one to get if you are building from scratch. It was the first years made, VERY thick cylinder walls, most came with J heads and only came in trucks. I found a 1971 360 and the block is extremely strong....bored it out huge and filled it with KB 11:1 pistons, Eagle rods, had it internally balanced (which I recommend doing), rebuilt the J heads and installed the stronger Chevy 2.02 valves for high rpm shifts. At the drag strip, I'm shifting at 7000 and it still wants to pull....and I'm only running a .509 purple cam and M1 intake with Edelbrock carb.
So when someone says that all 360 LA blocks are the same, they are wrong in my research.

Here's the casting numbers to look for...

3418496-360 1971-74 LA
3870230-360 1975-78 LA
4179930-360 1975-1993 LA
 
A ten year old thread... LOL

[ame]https://youtu.be/grbSQ6O6kbs[/ame]
 
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