Chrysler brings back the Dodge Dart

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Slant six dan makes an excellent point about constantly changing car names with American manufacturers but he does forget one reason they discontinue them is the specific cars have bad reputations. I think the one exception may have been the Darts/Valiants in 76. They should have used the Aspen and Volare as the new Dart and Valiant.
 
I will be buying on hahhah dodge is dodge and always will be 40 mpg here I come
 
:banghead:
 

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ramenth said:
Remember this?

View attachment 282302


Front wheel drive, carried the Charger name, had very little to do with the B-body, no heritage from it's past.

But, what the hell, it was a piece of s*** before one unit was sold.

Or this?

View attachment 282303

Or these?

View attachment 282304

View attachment 282305

Rebadging, or building cars off mult-make platforms has been going on for decades and some of you guys act like it's a brand new concept.
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The thing is, Dodge should have learned from its past... None of these were particularly successful. Why? Because they had nothing to do with the original.

Also, let me re-iterate, I have no problem with the new car itself that dodge is making... I understand the need for a fuel efficient grocery getter, and from the pics shown it looks to be a stylish one... My issue is with the careless nameplate use... Call it the Avenger, the Caliber, the neon, the Colt... any of those make more sense than calling this particular car a Dart.
 
Shane65 said:
Well the thing is though, the twin turbo 1 series is the top of the line model in the BMW...
you can get a base model 1 series for 31K... Dodge could easily make something that competes with the Toyota/Subaru (rumored to start between 23-25k) and the 1 series and I think they could reasonably do it for around 23-25k as well... especially considering the full size Charger starts at 25k.

And it doesn't have to be "Luxury", it just has to have perceived value (overall package: design, performance, mpg, interior)... And with the way dodge has stepped up their interiors lately, at a 25k price range I'm sure they could put something together that looks pretty damn good.
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I agree on the value part. However, you're missing my point. Dodge isn't building the new Dart to target the BMW crowd. Their doing it to attack a more mainstream audience...the segment that Ford, GM, Toyota and Honda compete in. Those cars are in the 23-25k range and do not start at $31k. These are two totally different market segments with two totally different target audiences. If Dodge decides to build an SRT version, it will most likely target the Focus SVT and Civic SI as cross competitors.

Percieved value, yes, you can build that into a $25k intermediate car. But you cannot sell the luxury mindset BMW buyer into a Dodge. Maybe a Chrysler...but not a Dodge. That's not how the branding works.
 
Shane65 said:
The thing is, Dodge should have learned from its past... None of these were particularly successful. Why? Because they had nothing to do with the original.

Also, let me re-iterate, I have no problem with the new car itself that dodge is making... I understand the need for a fuel efficient grocery getter, and from the pics shown it looks to be a stylish one... My issue is with the careless nameplate use... Call it the Avenger, the Caliber, the neon, the Colt... any of those make more sense than calling this particular car a Dart.
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Just out of curiosity Shane, what is your vision of a new Dodge Dart. What kind of car do believe is deserving of the Dart nameplate?
 
Shane65 said:
The issue is that it's FWD and called a Dart. Carries no heritage from it's past... My issue is w/ the name, not the car. Sure have a FWD that sells to the masses, but call it something else...

Whether or not Darts were great from the factory, the fact of the matter is, they've become somewhat legendary in their own right (I don't own one, so I am speaking without bias...). RWD 340, with 6 pack and 4 on the floor, makes for a pretty bad *** machine...

I wouldn't expect dodge to bring another V8 muscle car to the market when they have the Challenger, but a classicly styled light weight RWD (3000lb max) car with around 220-250hp, and 6 speed option would be a blast to drive. At that weight and horsepower 30 mpg's wouldn't be hard to achieve... Make a coupe and a 4 door, and that stays true to the Dart name. Why chase Honda and Toyota FWD compacts? Why not make an American competitor to the BMW 3 series (RWD)? Why is every car that BMW makes still RWD, and Dodge (and the rest of the big 3) messing around with FWD 'Japanese looking' cars. Put a stake in the ground and stand for something, especially when you're using a classic name.
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A couple of things here...

The 64-76 Dart was built to sell to the masses. Pretty much any car today built for the masses will be a FWD.

The Dart never came with a 340, 6 pack. 340, yes, but not 340 6 pack. So if it's hot rodding your thinking of, just YouTube "10 sec K-car" or "12 sec turbo minivan".

I remember a time when hot rodding Darts wasn't the coolest thing...cheapest to do, yes, coolest? No. Everyone wanted to hot rod Chevelles, Chargers, Cuda's. Darts, Novas, Falcons were an after thought. Only through time...and forums like these, did the popularity of the A-body skyrocket. And I would argue to a certain degree that the A-body still doesn't get enough due respect.
 
Thrashard340 said:
Just out of curiosity Shane, what is your vision of a new Dodge Dart. What kind of car do believe is deserving of the Dart nameplate?
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I kinda spoke about it earlier, but here goes:

ccrp_0612_01_z+1969_dodge_dart_340.jpg


Picture a modern version of this, smoother sheet metal, no chrome, shorter overhangs, probably 2 feet shorter overall... and newer wheels of course.

- RWD
- coupe and four door
- could be 4 cylinder for the base then either 4 cylinder turbo or NA 6 for the "performance model... This leaves room for the Challenger to still exist.
- Classic styling. So instead of looking like a Japanese car like the Toyota/Subaru, keep it distinctly American. Think of an American version of the 1 series (just the exterior design), Think mini-Challenger. I always thought the roofline of the 69 Dart had a distinct look to it, make a modern version of that... maybe even throw a tail stripe on the performance version.
- And lastly, very important, keep it around the 3000 lb mark

This could be a staple in the Dodge line... Something they can build upon for years to come, making small tweaks to the sheet metal and adding small additions/improvements along the way. Something that speaks to their heritage, and something to be proud of.
 
Shane65 said:
I kinda spoke about it earlier, but here goes:

ccrp_0612_01_z+1969_dodge_dart_340.jpg


Picture a modern version of this, smoother sheet metal, no chrome, shorter overhangs, probably 2 feet shorter overall... and newer wheels of course.

- RWD
- coupe and four door
- could be 4 cylinder for the base then either 4 cylinder turbo or NA 6 for the "performance model... This leaves room for the Challenger to still exist.
- Classic styling. So instead of looking like a Japanese car like the Toyota/Subaru, keep it distinctly American. Think of an American version of the 1 series (just the exterior design), Think mini-Challenger. I always thought the roofline of the 69 Dart had a distinct look to it, make a modern version of that... maybe even throw a tail stripe on the performance version.
- And lastly, very important, keep it around the 3000 lb mark

This could be a staple in the Dodge line... Something they can build upon for years to come, making small tweaks to the sheet metal and adding small additions/improvements along the way. Something that speaks to their heritage, and something to be proud of.
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Good intentions, but unrealistic.

If you're building a car for the masses, particularly a 4 door sedan, with economy in mind, it's going to have to be a FWD. There's a dual benefit to FWD, it reduces the cost of production (no driveshaft, less moving parts) and increases interior volume (no transmission/driveshaft tunnel). These are key features in building an inexpensive car for the masses.

Interior space is just as important as cost. When thinking about a small car, the last thing to pop up is interior room. It's kind of a paradox. But auto manufacturers place a lot of emphasis to make the most roomiest car in it's respective class as possible. Interior requirements affect the layout and exterior design of a vehicle which is why you see most of the small to mid-size cars for the mass market FWD. This is also the reason for the "ugly" bubble look. The larger the platform, the more you can stretch it out. thsi is why the "classic" styling with a smaller car would be more difficult to achieve.

4 door with a coupe offshoot are very likely.

4 cyl and turbo 4 are very likely. 6 cyl is not as likely, but still realistic.

I think the new Dart will be around 3,000 lbs. So very possible.

So the new Dart is not too far off the mark with your requirements. I think the biggest issue would be styling...yeah, it won't look like a baby Roadrunner. But from the looks of it, it will probably take some front end and rear end cues from the Charger. So in a way, there is some relationship with the rest of the Dodge lineup.

I don't know how successful the new Dart will be. Their really going up against a tought market which is probably why they are building it off the Alfa platform to save costs. IMO, I don't feel that the use of the Dart badge here is any different than what was done with the Charger. That's just me though, so take it for what it's worth.
 
slantsixdan said:
Most people don't know or care.



Actually…no. This is one of the things the American automakers have consistently screwed up completely. What's Dodge's entry-level car? Why, it's the Dart! No, wait, the Aspen!, No, it's the Colt! No, the Aries! The Shadow! The Neon! The Caliber!


.
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Was the Neon really that unpopular? Sure, it was a death trap. But I thought they sold a lot of those things.
 
Face it... Our Dodge Darts were cheap, economical cars. The majority did NOT buy them because of their performance potential. I would be surprised if the majority of original Dodge Dart owners even knew what a Hemi was. This new incarnation of the Dart looks like it's going to be a cheap, economical car to meet the needs of today.

The Dart moniker may mean a lot to FABO members, and MOPAR enthusiasts, but to the general public, it was just another cheap car.
 
Thrashard340 said:
Good intentions, but unrealistic.

If you're building a car for the masses, particularly a 4 door sedan, with economy in mind, it's going to have to be a FWD. There's a dual benefit to FWD, it reduces the cost of production (no driveshaft, less moving parts) and increases interior volume (no transmission/driveshaft tunnel). These are key features in building an inexpensive car for the masses.

Interior space is just as important as cost. When thinking about a small car, the last thing to pop up is interior room. It's kind of a paradox. But auto manufacturers place a lot of emphasis to make the most roomiest car in it's respective class as possible. Interior requirements affect the layout and exterior design of a vehicle which is why you see most of the small to mid-size cars for the mass market FWD. This is also the reason for the "ugly" bubble look. The larger the platform, the more you can stretch it out. thsi is why the "classic" styling with a smaller car would be more difficult to achieve.

4 door with a coupe offshoot are very likely.

4 cyl and turbo 4 are very likely. 6 cyl is not as likely, but still realistic.

I think the new Dart will be around 3,000 lbs. So very possible.

So the new Dart is not too far off the mark with your requirements. I think the biggest issue would be styling...yeah, it won't look like a baby Roadrunner. But from the looks of it, it will probably take some front end and rear end cues from the Charger. So in a way, there is some relationship with the rest of the Dodge lineup.

I don't know how successful the new Dart will be. Their really going up against a tought market which is probably why they are building it off the Alfa platform to save costs. IMO, I don't feel that the use of the Dart badge here is any different than what was done with the Charger. That's just me though, so take it for what it's worth.
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I think we're talking about two different things here...

You asked me what I thought a new Dart should be, and IMO it should be exactly what I described.

As far as this car being a car for the masses, I think this car is right on point... FWD, cheap, somewhat stylish, good mpgs. PERFECT... Just dont call it a Dart.
 
Shane65 said:
I think we're talking about two different things here...

You asked me what I thought a new Dart should be, and IMO it should be exactly what I described.

As far as this car being a car for the masses, I think this car is right on point... FWD, cheap, somewhat stylish, good mpgs. PERFECT... Just dont call it a Dart.
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But that's the point. The Dart was a cheap, somewhat sylish, good MPG car back in the day. Just not FWD.
 
Im buying this car on the sole reason its called the dodge dart, so that means there doing somthing right.....
 
Thrashard340 said:
But that's the point. The Dart was a cheap, somewhat sylish, good MPG car back in the day. Just not FWD.
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I hear ya Thrashard... Maybe i'm just too much of a purist. I feel like when I think of Dodge Dart, I think of the car I posted above... and I feel like it has become a classic. So IMO it deserves a faithful modern interpretation, which would have to be RWD (no different than if they brought back the Challenger as a FWD), and would mostly likely be a niche car that enthusiasts were interested in... But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

That said, I hope it is a success for Dodge, and something they can build upon, for years to come.

I really do think they need a compact RWD to take on Toyota/Subaru, Mazda, and BMW (and beat GM and Ford to market). They'll just have to call it something else... any ideas?
 
ab7fh said:
Face it... Our Dodge Darts were cheap, economical cars. The majority did NOT buy them because of their performance potential. I would be surprised if the majority of original Dodge Dart owners even knew what a Hemi was. This new incarnation of the Dart looks like it's going to be a cheap, economical car to meet the needs of today.

The Dart moniker may mean a lot to FABO members, and MOPAR enthusiasts, but to the general public, it was just another cheap car.
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I agree. And think about how many 60's and 70's Dart owners ever imagined that their cars would ever have a cult-like following......I'd say none, they probably thought they were just cheap transpo. Chrysler may just come up with something that sort of "grows on you". Just like I said before, they are a business and if the bean-counters say they need to appeal to X group in order to sell X amount of vehicles to hit their sales goal/profit, they're going to follow a certain mainstream, safe recipe to do that.

Chrysler has made so many boring, faceless, forgettable small cars over the years though, (think of all those K-cars) I just hope they can come up with something that isn't too pathetic. I'm actually somewhat optimistic. I was fairly impressed with my SRT-4 Neon, so if it's better than that, I'd be interested.

Just don't show us cool pics and then give us a Caliber......EFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!

images
 
Shane65 said:
I hear ya Thrashard... Maybe i'm just too much of a purist. I feel like when I think of Dodge Dart, I think of the car I posted above... and I feel like it has become a classic. So IMO it deserves a faithful modern interpretation, which would have to be RWD (no different than if they brought back the Challenger as a FWD), and would mostly likely be a niche car that enthusiasts were interested in... But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

That said, I hope it is a success for Dodge, and something they can build upon, for years to come.

I really do think they need a compact RWD to take on Toyota/Subaru, Mazda, and BMW (and beat GM and Ford to market). They'll just have to call it something else... any ideas?
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Shane, I like the ideoligy behind your concept. I've always preferred RWD over FWD. I agree that Dodge (being the performance brand of Chrysler) needs to bring out a RWD coupe like you mentioned. Maybe that one will be the Demon :D
 
Guess I will wait and see how they marktet it, will it be "the Dart is back" or will they act like Dart is a brand new name that they just thought of. Probably will look at them when they come out, buy one probably not. Hope it has a tow rating, I read that Ford dropped the tow rating to zero on most of their passenger cars.
 
I bet its just going to be a POS ford pinto with new headlights,and a chinese two stroke engine.Dodge died in the 60's when they started putting seatbelts in their cars.

Too bad they wont just make a solid frame, with one seat, and a tach with a 500 CI Hemi Six Pack and a 4 speed.Id buy 500 of them myself.It would be the best selling car evah!!!! Oh ya it can only cost 4,000 bux or I aint buying that POS.:D
 
abodyjoe said:
there is no dodge. its fiat with a dodge name plate on the thing.
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Wait.. didnt Fiat buy out Chrysler? or have majority ownership? bailed them out financially from the government? If there is no Dodge because of Fiat, then wouldnt it be no more Mopar thanks to Fiat?? or am I missing something? .
 
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